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Probably will be prescribed cholesterol meds

satkins

satkins

Well-Known Member
Messages
137
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Hello all. I've been lurking for the past little while but I need to ask a question. I just had my 6 month blood test and it was for A1C and lipids. I'm pretty sure my A1C will be fairly good at least under 7. But I'm a little concerned about my lipids. I suspect they will be higher then normal. They where high 3 months ago but not out of site. I can't remember the numbers. I'm on three meds right now and I really don't want to start taking another one. Currently I'm on metformin, coversyl and synthroid. The synthroid will most likely be for life but the other two I would like to come off of some day. What arguments can I use on my doctor so I might be able to stay of cholesterol meds?
 
That's a difficult one since the meds for cholesterol are statins and the NHS is on a mission to get everyone to take statins. I took them until my legs went and I was taken off them but you wish to not take them in the first place. If you flatly refuse to take them your doctor may be of the type that censures you in some way for having a mind of your own. I suppose you could say you are on too many tablets already and don't wish to take another or you have read some bad things about statins and don't want to risk it. I don't hold out much hope though.

I am not in favour of acting in a way that keeps secrets from your doctor so if I didn't intend to take them I would just have to say so and suffer the consequences.
 
I don't think doctors are that different in Australia to the UK - I've been refusing to take statins for years and both GP and cardiologist have given up. That's what informed consent is meant to be for. If anyone attempts to penalise you for refusal, report them to the relevant authority.

If you are female, try giving them a copy of this paper:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3303886/
 
Just adding - my cholesterol had gone up quite substantially (for unknown reasons because my diet hadn't changed) at my last test - though HDL was part of the rise and GP was pleased with that part of it. He didn't even suggest I try statins and recommended I take a new probiotic on the market called "Enliva" - don't know if it's available in the UK or not, but I imagine so since we usually get things much later than you lot :)

For once I'm looking forward to my next test just to see if the recommendation worked.
 
Indy51 said:
I don't think doctors are that different in Australia to the UK - I've been refusing to take statins for years and both GP and cardiologist have given up. That's what informed consent is meant to be for. If anyone attempts to penalise you for refusal, report them to the relevant authority.

If you are female, try giving them a copy of this paper:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3303886/
Click to expand...
You make a good point about informed consent. The NICE guidance is "The decision whether to start statin therapy should be made after an informed discussion between the clinician and the person about the risks and benefits of statin treatment, taking into account additional factors such as potential benefits from lifestyle modifications, informed patient preference, comorbidities, polypharmacy, general frailty and life expectancy. [new 2014]"

The article you cited is interesting and reminds us that what is sauce for the goose is not always sauce for the gander. However, it's not strictly applicable as it discusses using only total cholesterol to estimate risk whereas in the UK, the QRisk2 calculator ((https://qrisk.org/2016/) is used which includes HDL and triglycerides.
 
Dark Horse said:
You make a good point about informed consent. The NICE guidance is "The decision whether to start statin therapy should be made after an informed discussion between the clinician and the person about the risks and benefits of statin treatment, taking into account additional factors such as potential benefits from lifestyle modifications, informed patient preference, comorbidities, polypharmacy, general frailty and life expectancy. [new 2014]"

The article you cited is interesting and reminds us that what is sauce for the goose is not always sauce for the gander. However, it's not strictly applicable as it discusses using only total cholesterol to estimate risk whereas in the UK, the QRisk2 calculator ((https://qrisk.org/2016/) is used which includes HDL and triglycerides.
Click to expand...
Speaking of QRisk - have you seen all the reports about how there has been a long standing glitch in the software and that GPs are ignoring the advice to review all their patients on statins?
 
satkins said:
Hello all. I've been lurking for the past little while but I need to ask a question. I just had my 6 month blood test and it was for A1C and lipids. I'm pretty sure my A1C will be fairly good at least under 7. But I'm a little concerned about my lipids. I suspect they will be higher then normal. They where high 3 months ago but not out of site. I can't remember the numbers. I'm on three meds right now and I really don't want to start taking another one. Currently I'm on metformin, coversyl and synthroid. The synthroid will most likely be for life but the other two I would like to come off of some day. What arguments can I use on my doctor so I might be able to stay of cholesterol meds?
Click to expand...

Watch this, and you will likely be way ahead of where your doctor is on understanding the true significance of your test results.
(Long vid, but truly the best I have seen so far that discusses cholesterol in depth - particularly in relation to LCHF diets)

 
satkins said:
Hello all. I've been lurking for the past little while but I need to ask a question. I just had my 6 month blood test and it was for A1C and lipids. I'm pretty sure my A1C will be fairly good at least under 7. But I'm a little concerned about my lipids. I suspect they will be higher then normal. They where high 3 months ago but not out of site. I can't remember the numbers. I'm on three meds right now and I really don't want to start taking another one. Currently I'm on metformin, coversyl and synthroid. The synthroid will most likely be for life but the other two I would like to come off of some day. What arguments can I use on my doctor so I might be able to stay of cholesterol meds?
Click to expand...
No-one can make you take statins if you don't want to. As Indy51 says, decision to take a drug should be based on informed consent. Your GP has a duty to explain the risks and benefits of any potential treatment and then you have the right to choose whether or not you follow their advice. You may be able to achieve a reduction in risk of cardiovascular disease by lifestyle changes such as giving up smoking, increasing exercise, changes in diet, weight-loss etc. These should ideally be tried before drug treatment is offered.
 
You argument would be "I don't want to take statins so there is no point whatsoever in prescribing them for me."

Well that was mine when the Diabetes Nurse tried to get me on them..
 
Indy51 said:
Speaking of QRisk - have you seen all the reports about how there has been a long standing glitch in the software and that GPs are ignoring the advice to review all their patients on statins?
Click to expand...
Yes, it's discussed here: http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/your-pr...No=2&SortOrder=dateadded&PageSize=10#comments

The problem is with one particular software supplier to 2,500 GP practices in the UK (about 1/3 of all GPs). There was an error when the supplier tried to incorporate the QRisk tool into the software. It is thought that 270,000 people have been affected although the advice is that the error in the estimate of risk is quite small and in most cases the recommended treatment will be unchanged.

If people are worried, they can check their risk by plugging their results into the QRisk2 tool itself which is still OK and can be accessed here:- https://qrisk.org/2016/
 
My response with the statin offer will always be:

'Thank you, but no. I have been following the controversy, have read the original studies - and see no convincing argument for a middle aged woman with my cholesterol ratios to take them.'

Fortunately, I am also now in the position to quote evidence that hyperinsulinaemia is a far greater risk factor than cholesterol, in causing heart attacks, and request (again) that they prescribe me Metformin to help with that. They will, of course, decline (again).
 
satkins said:
Hello all. I've been lurking for the past little while but I need to ask a question. I just had my 6 month blood test and it was for A1C and lipids. I'm pretty sure my A1C will be fairly good at least under 7. But I'm a little concerned about my lipids. I suspect they will be higher then normal. They where high 3 months ago but not out of site. I can't remember the numbers. I'm on three meds right now and I really don't want to start taking another one. Currently I'm on metformin, coversyl and synthroid. The synthroid will most likely be for life but the other two I would like to come off of some day. What arguments can I use on my doctor so I might be able to stay of cholesterol meds?
Click to expand...

Satkins, I have had many long discussions about lipids with my preferred GP (and other GPs in the Practice) because my Total Cholesterol number always comes out at an inconveniently large number. The breakdowns are very good, but the total appears to be not so great.

Over time, I have worked on it by ensuring my doet is good and by helping my GP understand my stance, by sharing my reading, listening and viewing on YouTube. Around 18 months ago (I think !), I did a thread semi-documenting this experience. To precis, my preferred GPs stance has shifted from "that total's a bit hefty, we really should be considering some medication", to "You must be delighted by those numbers". The numbers have only marginally changed at each test. I have never, ever, to my knowledge had a total less that 6.3, and that was only once, when I was losing weight like mad and getting the hang of living reduced carb. Once and only once that was 5.6.

I have never taken statins. I'll try to find the thread I started on it.
 
Here's maybe some reading for you, satkins?:

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/anything-else-update.63298/

I can't seem to find the preceding thread this one is an update to, so maybe in the recent problems, it was lost. @Giverny has any historic (over, say 2 years old) been lost or archived in the recent work? I'm not asking for any changed or work, just wondering?
 
I have refused so far to take statins, as they raise blood glucose (and in fact can cause T2D).
Also keep an eye on your thyroid meds. Latest research is suggesting that if your tsh is in the middle to high levels of he normal band that it can cause T2D, and I would imagine that they'll also find eventually that it can raise blood glucose if you already have t2d!
 
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