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protein problem

R

red

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as I am eating about 50 carbs a day, I am eating a large amount of protein probably 400grams 3 times a day. this seems to be helping my bg level and helping me to loose weight, but I am worried as I have heard that it can do damage. My question is, is this true? and if so what does it damage, and what do I look for in my blood test levels to monitor if damage is being done? thanks
 
Not really going to do you too much damage in the short term. The Kreb's Cycle although not terribly efficient can, sort of, help keep you going. However, I'm have no idea about specific numbers and how energy you're supposed to have.

However, since you're low-carbing. I'd advise you to eat more carbohydrates... of the fibrous kind. A couple of handfuls of bran as a snack should do you. I do that and I'm not even low-carbing.

Anyway, there are long-term problems that have been linked with low-carbing. Muscle cramping and weakness, muscle wasting, headaches etc.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/02/health/main640566.shtml

That's a story that was run a while back.

Also, if you're trying to use blood glucose levels to see if there's a problem, that won't work. Any problems wouldn't have an impact of the bg tests.

Anyway, good luck.
 
I'm not going anywhere near a low carb debate. To answer your question regarding protein, there is some evidence that if you already have nephropathy, increased protein intake can further this damage. But some say it makes no difference, which doesn't really help you! If your kidneys are fine then don't worry either way. :wink:
 
Humans evolved eating mainly protein.The article cited, which claims that the symptoms reported are caused by carb deficiency, offers no evidence. That is probably, because although ,many have tried, none has yet proven that carbs are essential. In fact the weight of evidence is that they are not.
Equally there is actually little to no evidence that too much protein is bad for you. It hasn't been definitively proven that it's even bad for people with defective kidneys. that's another assumption.
Drink plenty of water and make sure you have plenty of fibre in your diet, so that you avoid the genuine risk of constipation. The final metabolites of protein are urea and carbon dioxide. Both are water soluble and easily flushed away.
 
Actually, I was mainly referring to the fact that an increased protein intake results in constipation. I was remarking that low-carb diets that have been high in protein i.e. Atkins Diet have had complications.

There are no definite complications for anyone. Just ones that you might have.

Constipation, easily remedied by a few handfuls of bran a day.

And carbs are important. They are the fast acting storage molecule. Unlike fat, which takes a while to respire. Plus, the other food groups can't be stored. Excess protein cannot be stored, which means that you can efficiently replace your carb intake with protein. But lets not get started on this.

Safe to say, you cannot write off carbohydrates as unimportant.
 
Hello,

A consequence of nephropathy is that the kidney 'leaks' protein (and blood), so the fear is that if you eat lots of protein then this will exacerbate the problems with the kidneys.

I haven't found any studies to suggest that that is the case though; the protein leaking is a symptom not a cause (the high insulin/high blood sugar is the cause of the nephropathy).

On a personal level my kidneys have displayed normal function after long term low carbing as opposed to mild nephropathy when following the traditional advice...

By the way - you don't have to eat bran for fibre; you can take psyllium supplements if you like.

Dillinger
 
Dillinger said:
A consequence of nephropathy is that the kidney 'leaks' protein (and blood), so the fear is that if you eat lots of protein then this will exacerbate the problems with the kidneys.

I haven't found any studies to suggest that that is the case though; the protein leaking is a symptom not a cause (the high insulin/high blood sugar is the cause of the nephropathy).

On a personal level my kidneys have displayed normal function after long term low carbing as opposed to mild nephropathy when following the traditional advice...
Click to expand...
I think the suggestion is that the protein intake factor only comes into play if you have much more than just mild nephropathy. Although I do not really pay too much attention, even the NHS diet advice regarding protein intake for those with CKD does not kick in until you're practically on dialysis. However that may well be yet another example of horse and stable door...

There are many stories of people reversing initial complications soon after they present (via a variety of methods), but I don't think this is true for those that are further progressed or more established. Examples are often quoted for most of the "...opathies".

I am really curious about the protein/kidney issue, as there are major implications for my current situation. I have my annual review later this week, and am also seeing my kidney man too, so I am going to try to get more answers.
 
I don't think you are eating 400 g protein 3 times a day, as this would amount to 5 times that weight in steak - 6 Kg. I presume you mean protein foods, so the actual protein consumed will be about 250 g per day.

1 Kg steak equivalent per day would provide 900 cals, 300 g protein, 60 g fat.
 
kegstore said:
I am really curious about the protein/kidney issue, as there are major implications for my current situation. I have my annual review later this week, and am also seeing my kidney man too, so I am going to try to get more answers.
Click to expand...

Will you let us know what they say on this?

Thanks

Dillinger
 
thanks

thankyou to everyone who answered my questions and for the support in the last few day
love red
 
Protein intake vs kidney damage update: I was hoping to get some answers to this today, but my renal appointment has been postponed until October. My latest blood series came back with better numbers than before for kidney function, so for the moment I'm sticking with what seems to be working...

This is an important topic however so I won't forget, and will definitely post something when I have the info.
 
OK so I couldn't/wouldn't wait until October...

There are stacks of references to this out there on the interweb, but the following summarises quite well and goes some way towards answering the protein intake vs kidney disease conundrum:

http://www.davita.com/diet-and-nutrition/c/480

So it really depends what your lab numbers are, especially Creatinine, Urea and eGFR, not forgetting blood pressure of course!
 
Thanks for starting the thread. I got my latest blood test results yesterday.

HbA1c = 6.2 (best for a long time - it was 6.8 a year ago.)

Cholesterol = 4.8 (Its been above 5 until I reduced carb.)

My GFR (Global Filtration Rate) calculated abbreviated MDRD is 62 (Mild impairment, stage 2 is 60-90. Above 90 is normal.) Dr says its been in that region for several years, but no need to worry. He could prescribe an ACE inhibitor.

I looked on the internet: Dietary Protein Restriction and the Progression of Chronic Renal Disease

Abstract:
The Modification of Diet in Renal Disease (MDRD) Study was the largest randomized clinical trial to test the hypothesis that protein restriction slows the progression of chronic renal disease. However, the primary results published in 1994 were not conclusive with regard to the efficacy of this intervention. Many physicians interpreted the failure of the MDRD Study to demonstrate a beneficial effect of protein restriction over a 2- to 3-yr period as proving that this therapy does not slow disease progression.
Click to expand...

Typically, the authors do not accept trials that do not support their theory. Read on:
The authors believe that this viewpoint is incorrect, and is the result of misinterpretation of inconclusive evidence as evidence in favor of the null hypothesis. Since then, numerous secondary analyses of the MDRD Study have been undertaken to clarify the effect of protein restriction on the rate of decline in GFR, urine protein excretion, and onset of end-stage renal disease. This review describes some of the principles of secondary analyses of randomized clinical trials, presents the results of these analyses from the MDRD Study, and compares them with results from other randomized clinical trials. Although these secondary results cannot be regarded as definitive, the authors conclude that the balance of evidence is more consistent with the hypothesis of a beneficial effect of protein restriction than with the contrary hypothesis of no beneficial effect. Until additional data become available, physicians must continue to make recommendations in the absence of conclusive results. The authors suggest that physicians incorporate the results of these secondary analyses into their interpretation of the findings of the MDRD Study.
Click to expand...

I don't think I need to change my reduced carb diet, which includes substantial amounts of protein. (meat, cheese, nuts, soya, bulked with vegetables.)
 
I couldn't say what is a safe' amont of protien to eat per day...

But this how nephropathy was explained to me by my consultant in laymens terms in respect of protien...

The kidneys sieve out the protien (to keep it in the body for muscles growth and repair duties) but when you start to suffer high blood glucose levels this puts more pressure on the protien being sieved throught he kidney's... The pressure of this expands the sieve holes, allowing protien to fall through.. hence the leaking of protien in the the urine... which long term can lead to the kidneys being damaged to the extent that they go into renal failure etc...

There is another part to this story though, this is based on blood pressure, your blood pressure helps to push the blood through the kidneys, so if you have high or raised blood pressure this increases the force which the protien is being pushed through the sieve causing damage...


This is where introducing blood pressure tablets come into play, as they reduce the blood pressure it reduces the force of the blood being pushed through the kidneys and helps protect the kidneys..

I noticed Dilinger, that you are taking Lisinopril and Aspirin, lisinopril reduces the blood pressure, and Asprine thins the blood, both these can help take the pressure of your kidneys, so is it the low carbing or is it the tablets that you take, thats helped your mild nephropathy?

As in my case I suffer from nephropathy casued by a period where my good control went belly-up, but since using the insulin pump, and restablising my control, it has much improved... I was given ramipril even though I wasn't suffering from high blood pressure to protect my kidneys, but suffered side effects so they said, I said that they were dropping my blood pressure too low, which caused my dizzy spells... They then tried me on the expensive irbesartan which gave the same effect as the ramipril so have stopped these has well...
 
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