Putting the brakes on...

Indy51

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5,540
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Type 2
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@Jim Lahey I'm quite happy to agree to disagree - I'll also agree that you're not a moderator at this forum and I'd really appreciate if you don't attempt to moderate my posts in future. You are not the arbiter of what choice of words is or isn't acceptable at this forum. If I want to call something a "zombie myth" I will - the quotation marks indicate that I was actually quoting someone else - in this case, Dr Michael Eades, co-author of Protein Power and a very well respected member of the low carb community.
 

Indy51

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5,540
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Type 2
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Thought that over and above a certain level that your body needs it got dumped in your pee or broken down by the body to glucose.

Every day is a school day.

I have cheese with my lunch, with a tin of tuna. I already feel full meals wise. I'm not ravenous by the end of the day by any means but definately hungry and ready to eat if I skip lunch.
Are you a member at the Diet Doctor site? If so, there's a great talk by Dr Ted Naiman from the Low Carb Cruise where he covers a lot of the science on protein and the protein leverage hypothesis. If you can't access the video at Diet Doctor, there's also an audio version of his talk at Jimmy Moore's podcast show:

http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/shownotes/17598/1452-dr-ted-naiman-2018-low-carb-cruise-lecture/
https://www.dietdoctor.com/video/presentations/naiman-lcc2018
 

Brunneria

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Retired Moderator
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21,889
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Type 2
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...and, yet again, we are back with a situation where a thread is being taken off track by entrenched argument.

So, yet again, as a moderator, I am going to say that while the discussion (of protein and its impact on blood glucose) is worthy of discussion, this thread was started to discuss halting weight loss - for which appropriate protein adjustment is just one tool.

@Jim Lahey
If you have strongly held beliefs about protein (or anything else) please start a new thread for it. Repeatedly hijacking threads like this is against the forum rules (link in my signature). So are pages of disagreeing posts that simply repeat the same views.

In particular, rule A6:
This is a Forum of many different personalities – if you disagree with someone then start a constructive debate or use the Private Message (PM) system to have a conversation. It is unhelpful to have to read miles of disagreeing posts, and can deflect from the purpose of the thread (i.e. thread derailing).

There is nothing wrong with holding an opinion and expressing it, but when it degenerates into nitpicking, bickering and repetitive arguments, then there will be moderation.
 
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Ian DP

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Messages
712
Type of diabetes
LADA
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Insulin
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Chips
A few years back, I was in exactly the same position, I had lost weight and needed to put on a stone. I decided to concentrate on eating more fat.... a bulletproof coffee every day (30g coconut oil and 30g butter with a little double cream. I have double cream with just about anything and everything I can (about 150ml per day), plus choose fatty meats over lean. I put on a stone in about 3 months and have held this weight for over 4 years now.

I don’t know for sure, but think it is the coconut oil that helps gives me a very good (high) HDL cholesterol level.

I do find that a lot of protein increases my BG levels, not within a few hours but maybe 5 hours later.... it seems to do it very gradually.
 

DCUKMod

Master
Staff Member
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14,298
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
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Hi there @Spl@ - Apologies for getting to this late in the game, but I'd headed off up the wooden hill early last night.

Firstly, well done for taking this particular bull by the horns, and discovering a way that has allowed you to achieve your shorter term goals, in terms of trimming up etc. It's a fantastic bonus that your family have embraced it too, with similarly pleasing results.

Moving forward, the slowing and stopping the weight loss train can be a challenge for some. Dome find it frustrating that their weight seemingly finds it's "happy place" when the person's "happy place" would be a bit more trimmed, and some of us find we could be inclined to become the disappearing man/woman.

In my own case, I didn't have an awful lot of poundage to trim off, and indeed, I never, ever set out to lose weight. My sole focus was to get my bloods into range and maintaini t, but along the way I sure as heck skinnied up. I have zero idea how much weight I actually lost as I deliberately didn't weigh myself at the outset (and was not weighed on diagnosis) for reasons which are unimportant in this context, but when my clothes started hanging on me I started to like the disappearing love handles then became a bit concerned about the bones appearing a bit too often in not always the most complimentary places.

On my journey to stabilise, I took it very steady and built a structure around my approad. I'm a data monster, so it was sort of natural for me.

The first thing I did was simply ate a bit more of everything. As I was in the Tropics at the time, and salads were a natural food choice, eating a few more lettuce leaves of tomatoes wan't going to materially change my carb intake. That didn't work.

Next, I added in more cheese, but this time I did it in almost doses. I decided what size my dose would be and that's what I added, every day, without fail. OK, that was a bit boring, but it was an easy way to control the increase and be able to review exactly what was going on.

When that didn't fully do the trick (things slowed, but didn't stop) I added nuts - again, by dose. That actually just about halted the weight loss, but reinforced the fact that my body doesn't like too many nuts!

So, anyway, by then, at least I knew how I could halt weightloss, and that then allowed my to experiment further with food combos.

It took me several weeks, probably months to really stop the weight shifting, and as a result I ended up right at the lower end of the normal scale, and that's pretty well where I have stayed.

My findings have been that once I sorted out the maintainence I just tend to sit in a range of +/- 1.5kg, varying on a daily basis, based on all the usual factors - hydration, plain old food on board (ahem) and so on.

I often post that people should do as you have done, and plan well ahead of reaching a point where not only do they not want to trim up any more, but that it isn't in their best interests to (accepting of course that BMI is a very blunt measuring tool). If one conciously halts the weight loss a little before the ideal point, that person probably knows how to go back and trim up a but later, should they choose to do so. It also sometimes takes our bodies a little while to catch up with our losses, in terms of how we look and also how others see us.

When I lose weight, it goes from my lady-bumps, backside and my upper chest, so the extend that curves aren't what I might be known for these days, but things are better as my body has redistributed some of what little fat is has left.

It's quite a complex time, Spl@, and a time to be very patient. I have always believed that for many people maintenance is harder than the initial loss, but it can be done.

I'm now just over 5 years into my journey. I skirt at the very low end of the healthy BMI range. I'm 160cm and weight 48-49kg, depending on the day, but I still manage to get through 2000-2500 calories a day. To this day, my OH often sits opposite me at the dining table and asks,............. "Where does it all go?", as I wolf my weigh through more than him.

Top tips: Plan early and be patient.
 

Smallbrit

Well-Known Member
Messages
284
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I kind of had a similar experience as above where I hadn't set out to lose weight (and indeed, as a petite female was and am still mortified that I lost weight from the 'wrong' areas) but inadvertently did when following LCHF.

And now, I literally have to remember to eat, and eat really quite large portions. I never followed the salad route, but am pleased to note it hasn't worked for some people (!). I think I did up the fats where I could (more butter on the steak) but it's an interesting battle to actually remember to pile on the food. I'm not hungry in the morning so breakfast and lunch tend to be combined.

I once thought that I'd love LCHF foods, because what's not to love? But after a while...yeah. There are times I just want to eat an apple.
 

bulkbiker

BANNED
Messages
19,576
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Also, no one is “anti-protein” that I’m aware of.
Ron Rosedale?
All of that may be true, but if I tell you that excessive protein tends to show an upward trend in my blood glucose, I’m not making it up, and it’s therefore not a “zombie myth”. It is real and affects many people, regardless of any protests from those who claim it doesn’t.

I’m not saying it affects everyone, but some people appear to hold the view that if it doesn’t affect them, then everyone else is wrong, which clearly isn’t the case. Also, no one is “anti-protein” that I’m aware of. Some people just promote that it shouldn’t be over consumed. There’s a difference :)

Why that's probably not completely correct (at least the insulin part... from about 35 minutes onwards.. Ben says it wrong to start with then gets corrected).
 

ickihun

Master
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13,698
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Bullies
I feel my weight loss stopped when I fell out of ketosis. The time I used a low carb diet. I think I suspected too much cheese and nuts for slowing down but halloween jellies in 2017 stopped my weight losing period but maintenance I've never ever had to deal with as I'm far from my ideal weight.
I cannot afford the diet which kept me into ketosis at the moment.
So if you can afford any diet to maintain I'd choose high quality meats, plenty of fish and maybe my own personal chef. If only (for me) .
 

Ponchu

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Messages
292
Sounds like you’re nearing your biological optimum and your body is making you hungry so that it can maintain homeostasis. Listen to it and eat more fat to satiate the hunger.

The only rule is eat when you’re hungry and stop when you’re not. Nature will take care of the rest :)


I’m finding my ideal weight is being dictated to me.

I keep eating clean & healthy and my body seems set for a soft landing.

If you eat healthy and when naturally hungry, to nourish your body, and BG is under control, I think you’ll land where you should.

I was at a stall but my appetite increased so I ate more.

This led to 5lb weight loss.

Our bodies are “fearfully and wonderfully” made.
 

Spl@

Well-Known Member
Messages
513
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Humans that only take.
Im down to around 78kg straight from the shower and while my waist is still reducing my weight has to a degree started to check its self and I am getting hunger pangs, proper uncomfortable hunger pangs on an active day.

I certainly look a lot better, am down to a 28 waist, (from a 38, Oct 17), how many 47 yo lorry drivers can quote that figure. As I'm 6"2' I'm struggling to find clothes small enough/big enough to fit. Shops don't sell anything in a 34 leg below a 32 waist.

My shirts mostly all still fit nicely as my neck and shoulders haven't changed which is nice, although some are slack round the waist.
 

zauberflote

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,476
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
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Diet only
Dislikes
okra. Cigarette smoke, old, new, and permeating a room, wafting from a balcony, etc etc. That I have so many chronic diseases. That I take so very many meds. Being cold. Anything too loud, but specifically non-classical music and the television.
Hey.

Things have been going really good with the whole lchf thing.

Have also noticed that I'm starting to get hungry lately. I could easily skip lunch a couple of weeks back. Not so much now with bg around 4 by 5 or 6pm.

Wow conga rats, @Spl@ !

Apropos of the getting hungry thing, I’m really glad I tapped this thread instead of the one I meant to. I have been ravenous the past several days! I’ve lost about 22 lbs since September, most of it while doing little to no exercise except general running around. Not ready to stop losing, although I’m within “age-adjusted” view of my “wedding dress weight” 38.5 years ago. My BMI hovers around 22 but the estimator lies, as I could certainly convert 5-10 more lbs to muscle and go down another pants size in the process.

Somebody mentioned that the longer they did LCHF the more medical issues they gained, and someone else mentioned elevated heart rate if too few carbs. So is that what’s causing my heart to jump around wayyyy more than usual? My BG is at the low end of “preD” at 5.77/40 if you follow an American rule on that. I would love to get into normal range.

I ate a huge supper including a square of 78% choc, and feel better than I have in a couple of days. Hmmmm.
 

Brunneria

Guru
Retired Moderator
Messages
21,889
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Wow conga rats, @Spl@ !

Apropos of the getting hungry thing, I’m really glad I tapped this thread instead of the one I meant to. I have been ravenous the past several days! I’ve lost about 22 lbs since September, most of it while doing little to no exercise except general running around. Not ready to stop losing, although I’m within “age-adjusted” view of my “wedding dress weight” 38.5 years ago. My BMI hovers around 22 but the estimator lies, as I could certainly convert 5-10 more lbs to muscle and go down another pants size in the process.

Somebody mentioned that the longer they did LCHF the more medical issues they gained, and someone else mentioned elevated heart rate if too few carbs. So is that what’s causing my heart to jump around wayyyy more than usual? My BG is at the low end of “preD” at 5.77/40 if you follow an American rule on that. I would love to get into normal range.

I ate a huge supper including a square of 78% choc, and feel better than I have in a couple of days. Hmmmm.
If you are experiencing heart ‘jumping around’ on LC then I suggest (strongly) that you have a read up on low carb and electrolytes, low carb and minerals, (magnesium and potassium in particular). And are you getting enough salt?

Are you aware of the changes that occur when we switch to low carb and how our bodies use minerals differently?
I suggest reading the articles on this on the diet doctor website. But there is plenty of other information out there in the net.

In my case, I will have cramps and trembly muscle weakness unless I ensure that I am getting enough magnesium and potassium, and I make sure I salt my food.
 

Spl@

Well-Known Member
Messages
513
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Humans that only take.
According to my fitness tracker my heartrate has steadied by some margin, the extremes I USED to get were anything from 70 to 150bpm. Now I am at 60 to 120 on a very steady reasonably flat line that I can follow and pinpoint the more stressful times of the day, (like rush hour traffic in Croydon), I need proper exercise to get over 130 now.

I do take care to keep my salt up and drink a good 2-3 pints of water over the day with a black coffee to get me out of the yard. I add some electrolyte to the water too sometimes if I'm feeling lacking although it makes the water taste a bit off its better than the headache keto can give me, my only real kick back from keto. :)woot: lucky me :couchpotato:).

My diet is now very green, not environmental just the vegetables I eat, meat is usually the fatty kind, 20% mince, pork belly (hmmm) sausages (found some Tesco finest at 1.5%carb each). With cheese and party sausages in a pot as a emergency top up on a more physical day. I have had a 3.8 lately but that is probably meter error as that is the only one.

It has had its challenges but thinking " feeling hungry, body is now burning bodyfat" is a def diet boost. I don't find it costs any real difference as veg is on the whole cheaper and when you factor in all the junk and pre packed/tinned stuff your not buying it does level off.

I have never felt healthier.
 

Oldvatr

Expert
Messages
8,470
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
It appears that when it comes to protein, Its like what an Elephant appears to be to 6 blind men.
Each one is absolutely right, but all differ in what they believe an Elephant looks like.

My N=1 on protein is that not only does it not spike me, it does not affect my Ketone levels either.
For the sake of modesty (shamefaced at my sheer gluttony:bag:) I shall demure in mentioning the quantity of the stuff I have been putting away lately:p
Love the avatar!
 
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