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Putting the brakes on...

Discussion in 'Low-carb Diet Forum' started by Spl@, Dec 17, 2018.

  1. Spl@

    Spl@ Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Hey.

    Things have been going really good with the whole lchf thing.

    Have dropped from a 38 to a 30 waist. All told over 26lb in 10weeks. Yep. Falling off me at nearly 2kg a week average. 93 to 78kg from 18oct to now. I have never felt better.

    Thing is, bmi is now 24, 78kg and at 6"2' I don't think I want to be dropping much more.

    Have also noticed that I'm starting to get hungry lately. I could easily skip lunch a couple of weeks back. Not so much now with bg around 4 by 5 or 6pm.

    What is the best way to slow the weightloss. I understand a lot of protein is not ideal. Veg won't really pack you out. Eating butter by the slice doesn't appeal either.

    I am generally aiming to only eating (being honest) around 50g carbs a day. Often get well below that. Down to maybe 15 to 20 sometimes, again being truly honest. The family is embracing it too which is making it easy. Wife is loving her own weightloss

    I know there is not a magic answer but I figured the whole site has always set me on the right path I figured asking was best.
     
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  2. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you’re nearing your biological optimum and your body is making you hungry so that it can maintain homeostasis. Listen to it and eat more fat to satiate the hunger.

    The only rule is eat when you’re hungry and stop when you’re not. Nature will take care of the rest :)
     
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  3. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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    Hi @Spl@ a lot of us have found fasting harder/got hungrier after dropping weight.

    Tagging a couple of people who have managed to sort out a maintenance routine @shelley262 @Bluetit1802 @DCUKMod

    And congratulations on your progress!
     
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  4. shelley262

    shelley262 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi congratulations on how well you’ve done well done.
    it is a battle to keep bgs low but maintain weight once you’ve got it well into your normal/desired level. Key, I believe, is adding in more low carb highish fat food. My faves include nuts, cheese, high cocoa percentage chocolate, low carb treats. Good luck experimenting provided you keep carbs low you’ll keep your bg control and hopefully maintain at the level you want. Good excuse for lots of low carb treats over Christmas!
    I also don’t fast anymore preferring to eat three meals - but tend not generally to snack Preferring to include my treats in my meal times. Fasting for me now is just overnight.
     
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  5. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    Hi,

    Like you, I lost all my excess weight easily on a low carb diet. My BMI dropped to 21 from 31 and I was delighted.

    I had no intention of increasing my carbs. In fact, I wanted to reduce them further to aid my blood sugars. It was all trial and error to stop losing weight and maintain and was probably harder than losing the weight in the first place. It took some time to find the right balance. In my case I increased my egg consumption, introduced cheese to my diet (didn't eat it before), started eating full fat Greek yogurt daily, increased cream and butter (used it more to fry with and on veggies) plus I reverted to an old habit of a glass of red every night. Eventually I found the right balance, stopped losing, and have maintained the same weight now for over 4 years with less carbs than I was on when I was initially losing weight. I do not do any more exercise than I was doing before diagnosis - housework, gardening in the summer, and dog walking. I am no gym bunny.

    There are only the 3 food groups - carbs, protein and fats. Keeping the carbs the same you have no choice but to increase protein and/or fats. Are your kidneys in good working order? If so, there is no harm whatsoever in increasing your protein. It is something I personally have never restricted in any way, shape or form. It is too important.

    I can't comment on the not hungry aspect. I am never hungry myself, but I eat 2 good meals a day plus a very light breakfast (one soft boiled egg or a coffee with cream sees me through to lunch time.) I have never snacked in my whole adult life.
     
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  6. Indy51

    Indy51 Type 2 · Expert

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    Funny thing is, most of the top protein researchers absolutely disagree with this statement. There seem to be a lot of "zombie myths" about protein that won't die, no matter how much research proves them wrong. Eat protein to satiety - works for me. Been weight stable for over 2 years now.
     
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  7. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    That’s nice. Genuinely. But just because it works for you doesn’t mean it works for everyone else. Many of the world’s leading authorities on well forumulated LCHF/ketogenic diets all make a point of recommending moderated protein. Including Tim Noakes and Jason Fung. Moderate being that which is not over and above what the body is supposed to use it for. Maintenance. It’s an inefficient source of energy.

    We should all do what works for us, but please don’t suggest that the moderation of protein promoted by leading experts and proven to be true in many individuals is a myth simply because it doesn’t apply to you :)
     
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  8. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    I think there will be as many keto experts that say more protein isn't a problem as there are that say it will.
    Prof Noakes so far as I know is veering towards carnivore at the moment so I doubt he'd be that anti protein. Ben Bikman seems quite cool with it as do many others. I would say at the moment that the jury is out but the evidence is leaning towards too little protein is more damaging than too much especially as we age. As with everything we must experiment with ourselves but experiment we must. I can see that for me OD'ing on protein has no negatives blood sugar wise.
     
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  9. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    All of that may be true, but if I tell you that excessive protein tends to show an upward trend in my blood glucose, I’m not making it up, and it’s therefore not a “zombie myth”. It is real and affects many people, regardless of any protests from those who claim it doesn’t.

    I’m not saying it affects everyone, but some people appear to hold the view that if it doesn’t affect them, then everyone else is wrong, which clearly isn’t the case. Also, no one is “anti-protein” that I’m aware of. Some people just promote that it shouldn’t be over consumed. There’s a difference :)
     
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    #9 Jim Lahey, Dec 17, 2018 at 11:41 PM
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
  10. brassyblonde900

    brassyblonde900 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It appears that when it comes to protein, Its like what an Elephant appears to be to 6 blind men.
    Each one is absolutely right, but all differ in what they believe an Elephant looks like.

    My N=1 on protein is that not only does it not spike me, it does not affect my Ketone levels either.
    For the sake of modesty (shamefaced at my sheer gluttony:bag:) I shall demure in mentioning the quantity of the stuff I have been putting away lately:p
     
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  11. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    Prof. Stuart Phillips is a leading expert, so I hear. Not to derail but with the OP mentioning weight loss and protein...

     
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  12. Indy51

    Indy51 Type 2 · Expert

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    But the OP was talking about wishing to prevent further weight loss and that was the context in which I replied. BG wasn't mentioned as an issue.

    When talking about the zombie myths, I was referrring particularly to the myths about kidney damage which has been disproven over and over again - quite a common concern for diabetics. Also the one about protein kicking people out of ketosis. There are others. Not everything is about BG, though it can appear that way for diabetics at times.

    We're all entitled to speak from our own experience and also to rate some experts more than others. I could accuse you of doing the same thing you're accusing me of - assuming your experience is relevant to everyone else with Type 2 and that only your favourite experts are to be trusted. I've never had an issue with protein above the recommended amount - so my experience is just as valid as yours. People must experiment for themselves. My experience pretty much follows the advice given by experts like Dr Bikman, Dr Naiman and Prof Phillips, even Dr Bernstein, that higher protein in the context of low carb isn't an issue.

     
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  13. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

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    Why isn't a lot of protein ideal? Have you got kidney disease? It's proven high protein diets no harm unless already struggling with kidney disease.
    Or did you mean something else?
     
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  14. Indy51

    Indy51 Type 2 · Expert

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    Even that turns out to a myth and disproven by research.
     
  15. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

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    Now... How to add weight, that is my expertise! Ha ha
    Eat more than you can convert causes fat gain. Protein causes muscle gain and dehydration eventually causes water gain.

    Which gain are you looking for?
     
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  16. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

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    Thats sad as I've always overate on protein. My treats were macherel and seafood. Excessive meat portions too.
    Only started eating cheese in past 10yrs though but stopped now as one of my weight gainers.
    Every kidney blood test shows excellent function.
    Ive always ate more protein than carb but eat less carbs now. I used to leave pasta, boiled potatos/salad potatoes behind on my plate as I found them hugely bland. Well my mum couldn't cook so most things were bland.
    I've eaten ham and most cooked meats and fish which doesn't fill me but my favourite foods. I even snacked on fish and seafood rather than crisps or toast, like some.
    Maybe kelp mixed in seafood has caused my underactive thyroid, who knows?

    I hope my kidneys stay forever healthy but aren't fatty like my naughty liver at the moment.
    I have to be extremely low carb to get rid of that. My heart doesn't like too low carb though. I get chest pains and fast heartbeat if too low carb.
     
  17. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    I suggest you watch the video presentations for the myth busting on CKD and protein.
     
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  18. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

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    I'm learning to trust my own judgement more these days.
    I know my body best.
    The more I'm changing my diet the more health conditions I'm getting. Strange but true.
    I'd like to think it's detoxing but no. Just getting more and more conditions. Maybe I have faulty genes which don't like me getting older?
     
  19. Spl@

    Spl@ Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Thought that over and above a certain level that your body needs it got dumped in your pee or broken down by the body to glucose.

    Every day is a school day.

    I have cheese with my lunch, with a tin of tuna. I already feel full meals wise. I'm not ravenous by the end of the day by any means but definately hungry and ready to eat if I skip lunch.
     
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  20. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Each to their own., and I don’t wish to get involved in a circular debate. I’m speaking from personal experience and that of others I know of that have experienced the same thing, and in whom reducing protein has remedied their issues. Protein can, in some people, cause a measurable glucose response. Therefore it can cause an insulin response, therefore it can cause weight gain, and it can cause someone to be kicked out of ketosis. Emphasis for clarity rather than effect :)

    It may not happen to you, or other people you know, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen to others. That is my only point. What people tend to overlook in these matters is that everyone has a different level of insulin sensitivity and so will be affected differently by different things. Calling things out as a “myth” because they don’t personally affect yourself is not helpful. It’s most definitely a “myth” that protein has absolutely no impact on insulin secretion, irrespective of whether or not the causal rise in blood glucose is measurable in each individual. But anyway, this is one of those things that polarises opinion so let’s move on and agree to disagree :)

    Edited to add that in this context extra protein could very well be used to help ‘put the brakes’ on weight loss.
     
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    #20 Jim Lahey, Dec 18, 2018 at 5:21 AM
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
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