quick question on insulin vs carbs

[gingerfluff]

Hello

Im trying out the Keto diet thing. Basically cutting back on carbs to take less insulin so I can manage my blood levels better.
Problem is im struggling at breakfast. For my breakfast I either have 2 slices of toast with a bit of nutella (Works out at 45g altogher) so I would take 5 units of insulin to cover it or else 2 weetabix that tells me its 26g for 2 pieces so I take 3 units to cover it.

Problem is like an hour later im sitting at at 13-15 blood sugar levels??
Is there something really obvious im doing wrong cos I can manage lunch and dinner okay

Thanks

x

 

[bulkbiker]

Eggs and bacon would be far more keto...cereal and toast cause almost everyone to spike.. T2's especially but obviously you too..

 

[Jollymon]

I skip breakfast. Dawn phenomenon sets me up for a high blood sugar number, so eating makes it much worse.

It’s funny because I used to think skipping breakfast was a silly idea. And now I do it. You’ll have to decide for yourself what to do.

 

[Member496333]

Little bit confused. Is the toast or weetabix what you would previously have had for breakfast, or what you’re having now while trying out keto? They’re both pretty much the opposite of the type of foods that most people would consume on a well formulated ketogenic diet.

 

[gingerfluff]

Little bit confused. Is the toast or weetabix what you would previously have had for breakfast, or what you’re having now while trying out keto? They’re both pretty much the opposite of the type of foods that most people would consume on a well formulated ketogenic diet.

Hey, sorry i can see why that didnt make much sense!
So breakfast is the only part of the diet im not really changing. I used to have a FULL bowl of cereal in the mornings but ive cut it way back.
Im up each morning around 6am and the smell of eggs and bacon etc turn my stomach. I can really only eat cereal or toast which is why its the only part of the keto I dont want to change. Im just kinda wondering if those units of insulin are enough to cover it or am i doing something wrong?

Thanks for your reply x

 

[Knikki]

@gingerfluff the problem you have with cereals and toast is they are slow to breakdown and get absorbed, hence why you spike.

I get the same problem, so what I do only part inject.

For example my cereal bowl may have as much as 110+ of carbs in it, so if I injected to cover it all, then odds on I would hypo fairly quick. Ok not a problem.

So I will inject say 9 units and keep and eye my bloods so say a couple of hours later when my bloods start to rise I catch it with another dose of insulin.

It is a bit of trial and error to work out when the spike will hit but once you do it is easy to sort.

Enjoy breakfast

 

[Jaylee]

Hello

Im trying out the Keto diet thing. Basically cutting back on carbs to take less insulin so I can manage my blood levels better.
Problem is im struggling at breakfast. For my breakfast I either have 2 slices of toast with a bit of nutella (Works out at 45g altogher) so I would take 5 units of insulin to cover it or else 2 weetabix that tells me its 26g for 2 pieces so I take 3 units to cover it.

Problem is like an hour later im sitting at at 13-15 blood sugar levels??
Is there something really obvious im doing wrong cos I can manage lunch and dinner okay

Thanks

x

Hi @gingerfluff ,

What are your BGs on waking & or prior to breakfast?

 

[Scott-C]

I can really only eat cereal or toast which is why its the only part of the keto I dont want to change. Im just kinda wondering if those units of insulin are enough to cover it or am i doing something wrong?

Hi, gingerfluff, if you're commited to a higher carb breakfast, it's maybe worthwhile experimenting with ratios and pre-bolusing.

Many folks, especially where they've not done DAFNE, can get stuck in the rut of doing the 1 to 10 ratio because their docs said so.

While that works for many, a lot of us have found that a different ratio works much better. I'm generally around the 1 to 7 mark most of the time. It's worth experimenting with. Even a tiny bit more insulin can make a huge difference.

Pre-bolusing works wonders too. Again, it depends on the individual, so needs some playing with. With me, I've found that injecting about 20 to 30mins before the meal gives the insulin time to start working so it can deal head on with the food as it starts digesting. People trying this for the first time will generally do it in 5 min stages with a set meal, test a lot afterwards and add another 5 mins to see how that works.

If you get blinged up with a libre/cgm, there's a technique called "waiting for the bend", where you literally just wait till you see the cgm trace starting to bend downwards, a good clue that the insulin is in action.

Pre-bolusing makes an extraordinary difference: if I inject with a meal, I could easily go to 12 to 15; pre-bolus about 25 mins before, and I'll either at worst get an 8, and sometimes it'll actually dip down , a spike in reverse, before coming back up to 5 or 6.

Stephen Ponder's book Sugar Surfing covers this sort of stuff but is mainly aimed at cgm users.

The other option is, erm, choosing another food option. I'm not a low carber and am never going to tell another T1 what to eat, but it's fair to say that, while we can technically eat anything, some options are more bother than they're worth.

I still eat bread, but the absorption can be sketchy. Don't know about cereal, don't like it that much.

I have found, though, that oats just seem to match insulin patterns quite well and can smooth levels out very well, so maybe have a try of oaty granola, or a bit of cheese on a few oatcakes and see how that pans out?

Nairns do seeded oatcakes which are really tasty, honest, oatcakes can taste good!

 

[gingerfluff]

Hi @gingerfluff ,

What are your BGs on waking & or prior to breakfast?

usually between 3-6

 

[gingerfluff]

Hi, gingerfluff, if you're commited to a higher carb breakfast, it's maybe worthwhile experimenting with ratios and pre-bolusing.

Many folks, especially where they've not done DAFNE, can get stuck in rut of doing the 1 to 10 ratio because their docs said so.

While that works for many, a lot of us have found that a different ratio works much better. I'm generally around the 1 to 7 mark most of the time. It's worth experimenting with. Even a tiny bit more insulin can make a huge difference.

Pre-bolusing works wonders too. Again, it depends on the individual, so needs some playing with. With me, I've found that injecting about 20 to 30mins before the meal gives the insulin time to start working so it can deal head on with the food as it starts digesting. People trying this for the first time will generally do it in 5 min stages with a set meal, test a lot afterwards and add another 5 mins to see how that works.

If you get blinged up with a libre/cgm, there's a technique called "waiting for bend", where you literally just wait till you see the cgm trace starting to bend downwards, a good clue that the insulin is in action.

Pre-bolusing makes an extraordinary difference: if I inject with a meal, I could easily go to 12 to 15; pre-bolus about 25 mins before, and I'll either at worst get an 8, and sometimes it'll actually dip down , a spike in reverse, before coming back up to 5 or 6.

Stephen Ponder's book Sugar Surfing covers this sort of stuff but is mainly aimed at cgm users.

The other option is, erm, choosing another food option. I'm not a low carber and am never going to tell another T1 what to eat, but it's fair to say that, while we can technically eat anything, some options are more bother than they're worth.

I still eat bread, but the absorption can be sketchy. Don't know about cereal, don't like it that much.

I have found, though, that oats just seem to match insulin patterns quite well and can smooth levels out very well, so maybe have a try of oaty granola, or a bit of cheese on a few oatcakes and see how that pans out?

Nairns do seeded oatcakes which are really tasty, honest, oatcakes can taste good!

View attachment 31878

Hi! Thank you for all this information, I will certainly check into it and try and few differnt ways to see what might work best. Ive alway injected after my food so maybe ill try the other way and see how i get on

Thank you x

 

[gingerfluff]

@gingerfluff the problem you have with cereals and toast is they are slow to breakdown and get absorbed, hence why you spike.

I get the same problem, so what I do only part inject.

For example my cereal bowl may have as much as 110+ of carbs in it, so if I injected to cover it all, then odds on I would hypo fairly quick. Ok not a problem.

So I will inject say 9 units and keep and eye my bloods so say a couple of hours later when my bloods start to rise I catch it with another dose of insulin.

It is a bit of trial and error to work out when the spike will hit but once you do it is easy to sort.

Enjoy breakfast

Never thought of that! Thank you that could certainly be a way round it

 

[becca59]

@gingerfluff I would say you have come up with the answer. Injecting before, rather than after your breakfast will be the answer. How far in advance will be up to you to find out with trial and error. Mornings seem to be the worst time for people with rises. I can wake, scan my Libre-a nice 5 with an horizontal arrow, and by the time I have been to the loo it is on a 7 with a diagonal line up. These days I stick to the same 10 carb breakfast, inject my Fiasp fast acting before my feet hit the floor and wait at least 15 mins before eating. Most days it goes well. But hey this is type 1 how many days are exactly the same! I wish!

 

[AntsNest]

I skip breakfast. Dawn phenomenon sets me up for a high blood sugar number, so eating makes it much worse.

It’s funny because I used to think skipping breakfast was a silly idea. And now I do it. You’ll have to decide for yourself what to do.

Ja I skip breakfast too and find if I can get out for an hour's walk I don't need a bolus in the morning thus cutting down on insulin and slowly losing weight.