Ramble about weight loss, fasting, waist measurement, fat on the inside and more

[LittleGreyCat]

I'm in the middle of an effort to get my weight and fasting BG down a bit.
This is tying in with other active threads so I thought I would bring a few things together.

Dr. Jason Fung claims calorie restriction doesn't work for weight loss. I had a quick look for the reference I read but was swamped. I will come back to this. I do remember he quoted a long term study where they reduced their calorie intake by 300 kcals per day and didn't lose any weight. Thus proving calorie restriction isn't the way to lose weight. Uh, duh, all that study proves is that a calorie restriction of 300 kcals for that particular cohort didn't result in any weight loss.

I'm slowly losing weight, a few fractions of a pound a day. I'm doing this be being strict on carbohydrates, booze and treats.

Thin on the outside, fat on the inside. The weight seems to be all coming off my waist and I am skinny elsewhere and my BG seems to be improving a little, This does suggest that fat clusters around my organs. If I manage to keep going and get down to 11 stone 7 lbs with a waist measurement of 34" or less it will be interesting to see how well my BG control goes.

More later.

 

[bulkbiker]

Not sure if he makes it any clearer in this post but I found it quite interesting

https://idmprogram.com/first-law-thermodynamics-irrelevant/

 

[Guzzler]

For over forty years we have been told that restricting calories is the only way to lose weight and yet for forty years we have been gaining weight. Not all calories are created equally.

As to your point on TOFI, waist circumference does matter but imo is only a guide. Only those zooped up scans can give a definitive answer to how much/little visceral fat surrounds the organs. Without them, we can only do our best.

 

[ringi]

Calorie restriction does work for weight loss provided you don't need to lose a lot of weight. The issue is that our body starts to use less energy if we eat fewer calories over a long length of time.

 

[JohnEGreen]

I lost over 8 stone restricting calories and carbs. And so far I've kept it off. All down to the individual I think generalizations are not particularly helpful.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

Not sure if he makes it any clearer in this post but I found it quite interesting

It was interesting and although I understand what he is saying, I think he may have forgotten the calories in whatever we pass. It doesn't really matter too much. Most dieticians recommend eating 500 calories less than BMR. My personal experience suggests that nothing happens for me unless I get down to about 2,000 cals less than BMR, so about 800 calories. We're all different though.

 

[Hiitsme]

I personally did lose weight by eating 500 cals a day less than I was burning, using a fitbit). When diagnosed I was almost at the top of normal BMI (24.8) and lost 2 and a half stone and got told I needed to put some weight back on which I did. I had not been dieting before - well not since teenager so it was a complete shock to my body. It was my waist measurement that was far too big and that did bring it down as well. I did also restrict carbs that my body couldn't cope with by testing but for me calorie restriction worked well/

 

[lucylocket61]

I find that calories do matter, and the type of calories is crucial for me. 1000 cals of a 'balanced' NHS diet and i dont lose weight. 1000 cals of a medium fat, lowish carb diet and i have now lost 2 stones.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

Calorie restriction does work for weight loss provided you don't need to lose a lot of weight. The issue is that our body starts to use less energy if we eat fewer calories over a long length of time.

Calorie restriction always works - eventually.
People just usually don't appreciate how much you have to restrict your calories.
Unless you are someone, for instance, who can gain weight on 500 kcals/day then you should lose weight on 800 kcals/day as in the Newcastle Diet.

It is harder when you are lighter than when you are heavier, usually, because you need less energy to sustain yourself and your body adjusts to a much lower calorific expenditure.

So yes, an initial calorie restriction will take off a few pounds then your body adjusts.
So you then have to reduce the calories again to lose more weight.
Then again, and then again.

There are other ways, some perhaps better for some people, but it is misleading to claim that you cannot lose weight by calorie restriction.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

For over forty years we have been told that restricting calories is the only way to lose weight and yet for forty years we have been gaining weight. Not all calories are created equally.

As to your point on TOFI, waist circumference does matter but imo is only a guide. Only those zooped up scans can give a definitive answer to how much/little visceral fat surrounds the organs. Without them, we can only do our best.

Agreed that for exactly where the fat is you need a very expensive scan.

However my viscera are in my belly (big sack of muscle to keep your guts from trailing across the floor) so given that I don't seem to have much sub-cutaneous fat it must be coming off the inside somewhere.

Which in turn means that it is either within the organs or surrounding the organs.

Either way, I think that I am better off without it.

 

[ringi]

Partly the Newcastle Diet works so well becouse it is short term and gets rapid waight loss. I think of "calorie restriction" as being trying to eat say 200 calories less then someone needs so as to get a slow and study weight lose.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

Second instalment: giving up the booze then slowly reintroducing it. Drinking in moderation.

I gave up all booze for nearly three weeks. Previously I had at least one drink almost every day and quite often several more.

As usual, several things going on at once. I have been taking more exercise (mainly walking), I have been more strict with my low carbing, and as I result I seem to be eating slightly less.

My average fasting BG seems to be trending slowly downwards with more readings in the 5s where they were in the low 7s before I started.

I have tried experimentally introducing some booze back in.
First it was red and white wine, with a single malt before bed. Strangely I didn't enjoy the wine as much, didn't want to drink as much of it, and felt slightly queasy afterwards. No obvious change to my rate of weight loss and if anything slightly lower fasting BG but not by a significant amount.
Second was a bottle of beer with my evening meal, and a single malt before bed. I really enjoyed the beer but it gave me the munchies so caution required. Still doing well on the BG.
I'm going to try and restrict myself to just a nip before bed time and see how that goes. Perhaps a very small glass (do we have any?) of wine with a meal.
My taste buds seem to have changed a bit and I am wondering if this has something to do with my rest from drinking alcohol.
My reduction in waist measurement indicates that I am losing fat from somewhere inside. No way to know if it is general, if it specific to one organ, if, perhaps it is a sign of fat stores leaving my liver.
One treat I have also given up is the occasional piece of fruit, and we are told that fructose goes straight to the liver to be turned to fat, so there is no way to be absolutely sure what is causing what.

Anyway, I will be doing my best to hold the line until the weekend when we are off for a couple of days visiting friends. Which will no doubt involve a degree of conviviality. Then some more constraint before a debauched Xmas.

More later.

 

[Guzzler]

It very much depends on where you cut the calories from, though. Weight Watchers and Slimming World have built a humungous industry on the CICO paradigm yet how many (of us with T2) have maintained weight loss?
I wouldn't like to hazard a guess but from the number of people I have heard say 'I must start back with WW 'cos I put weight back on again' then the number who have maintained v the number who have not must be low.

 

[Grateful]

I lost 8KG in the 2.5 months after my diagnosis, using a three-part combination of low-carb, low-fat, and stringent portion control (i.e. restricted calories). I also gave up booze. Afterwards, I abandoned the portion control and resumed the booze, but kept the other features of the diet. My weight stabilized and I did not re-gain any of the lost weight. Indeed I later drifted down by an additional 3KG.

My guess, although obviously I cannot prove it, is that the portion control was unnecessary. I would probably have lost just as much weight just by going low-carb, low-fat, but the weight-loss-process would probably have been slightly slower. My reason for believing this is that, after losing all that weight, I have been making no attempt to restrict portions at all. If anything, I am eating more food than I was before (and with a constant and healthy appetite) -- it's just that there are virtually no carbs. So, for my money, almost all of the weight-loss effect is because of low-carb.

(I'm also fairly sure that different people must react somewhat differently, at least in degree of effect. In my case, response to the low-carb diet was extreme and rapid, both in terms of losing weight and in slashing the HbA1c.)

(Edited later to clarify weight-loss timetable; and again to add booze information in the first paragraph.)

 

[bulkbiker]

but it is misleading to claim that you cannot lose weight by calorie restriction.

Possibly but do you think it possible to maintain that weight loss? or do you have to continue to restrict calories ad infinitum?

 

[bulkbiker]

This is the one I was really looking for

https://medium.com/personal-growth/the-useless-concept-of-calories-50831730cc81

 

[LittleGreyCat]

Possibly but do you think it possible to maintain that weight loss? or do you have to continue to restrict calories ad infinitum?

Well, I'm not eating very much at the moment.
This has been a phased thing.
Several times I've cut back on the amount I have been eating, at least partially due to LCHF reducing my appetite.
Each time I cut back I have been amazed at how much I was eating before, and wondered how I managed it all.
Recently I have cut back again and I am amazed at how little I am eating. However I am not feeling hungry, and I still have energy.
I can manage a 20+ mile cycle ride on only a cup of cream and butter coffee before setting out.
So in general my body seems to be functioning more or less normally despite my calorie restriction. Must count how many calories I am eating at some point, but all the weighing and measuring is a pain.

My overall conclusion is that the human body can be very wasteful in times of plenty, when I look back on the massive three course meals I used to eat with a big chip muffin for supper. Younger and more active, perhaps, but still a huge amount compared to what I eat now. I can't have burned all of it off with excess energy.

So I think, as I am still slowly dropping in weight, that I will probably be able to maintain the weight loss as long as I don't turn to the dark side of "well, just this once won't do any harm".

My most recent turning point was an HbA1c just before last Xmas.

Results:

11th May 2015............................ 6.5%
25th August 2015........................6.7%
31st March 2016..........................6.7%
7th December 2016.....................7.7% [! wake up call!]
30th March 2017..........................5.8% [New Year hardcore]
16th October 2017........................6.2% [Backsliding]

So now I am on a push to get my HbA1c back below 6 and my weight below my all time record of 11 stone 10 lbs (I am at 11 stone 12 lbs at the moment).

So I will watch my weight as this seems to be very closely correlated to my waist measurement which I suspect is also quite closely correlated to my HbA1c.

Living on a reduced diet can be a bit boring at times but it is now a way of eating, not a short or medium term diet. Only time will tell is it is a viable long term lifestyle.

 

[Russgee]

I am concerned, as currently I am losing weigh, which I need to, when I get to where I want to be how do I stay there and not to yo

 

[LittleGreyCat]

I am concerned, as currently I am losing weigh, which I need to, when I get to where I want to be how do I stay there and not to yo

Eat a little bit more of what you are already eating.

Increase the amount of fats a little,

 

[LittleGreyCat]

Another update:

I've been nagged about my cholesterol for a while now, but the last test the total was up but everything else was in range.

I don't know if this was my body finally settling into LCHF or if the daily cod liver oil capsule has made a difference.