Reactive Hypoglycaemia

Positivo said:

PS How refreshing to qualify as a 'newbie' after only 67 years unpaid voluntary work in support of the NHS, Forces and disability charities.

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Do you have R.H. positivo? It is just a thought but if you cast a look around various section of the forum there are possibly better areas for you to get your answers.
regards
Derek

Hi all
Didn't mean to just disappear for so long! Trying to get head round a life without my car has been hard. But am now proud owner of a mobility scooter which means I can get a pint of milk if needed and get to doctor, chemist etc. Have been juggling my pain medication so am currently working with a mush slightly looney brain as well as nodding off all the time!!
I saw my consultant who would support an appeal to get licence but then said that for me BS would have to be 7 before getting in car. That effectively bans me anyway as trying to keep above 5 was enough of an effort. Prob will reapply when I can and keep driving for a dire emergency. Getting used to the buses with all the olds and the single mums!!
I am now having to get out of the pool half way through swim to test BS and have jelly babies as required which is most days. Worst BS was 2.5 in last month so not too bad. Trying to keep the carbs down as much as possible without annoying the docs.
Did anyone else hear the repost of Nat Obesity forum saying that current diet guidelines of carbs and low fat don't work and cutting out carbs was way to go hmmmm

Hello.

Been a lurker for a while as it was such a blessing to find this forum a few months ago. First Thank You so much because all the info here has been beyond valuable especially the stickies starter info & questions to work through. I finally felt confident with my bg monitor with having a methodology to use in recent months. I did say hello in April but then my arthritis got bad and was just trying to get the hang of it all following the stickies advice & typing was difficult to communicate this. The fevers seem to mess with my sugars as does disturbed sleep, so can be difficult to untangle what is happening especially as i can be quite out of it due to fevers yet now I'm wondering how much might have still benn RH (mood swings,upset,anxious).So variables can get confusing. I know from reading that I'm far from the only one here with other conditions to make me complimicated . Hubby has now started to read here with me in last couple of weeks and thats really helped me, as i was getting so overwhelmed at times still &lots of symptoms. Although in the 'normal range' I was still getting spikes and quick drops, up to 7s and never seeing 4s, very rare below 5.5 and I just nt feeling good at all. Have now gone very low carb for last week and adding more fat while challenging my perceptions that apparently been drummed into me. So I now realise and feel a bit silly really as I increased my carbs after seeing a dietitian in March time & until reading posts here for himself hubby only had what me, endos and dietitian were saying. So altho the only carbs i was eating were wholegrains (brown rice, quinoa, unpearled spelt) with meats,fish,veg and salad and rapeseed oil, no wonder I was still spiking I think. . I'm now waiting for new testing strips as ran out yet I feel better after a week of very low carb(chose the wrong postage option so they're taking longer than usual to get here,doh).

I think my fear of very low carb has come from 2 places; 1 been drummed into me since small Fat (&sugar&salt) are bad because of serious heart disease/strokes/bp issues in my family, altho I've been doing good fats for long time now & 2 when i was in late teens I had very disordered eating in that I went days without food except odd veg&salad and when I ended up in hospital on a drip because i was in ketosis&low weight, I now represent ketosis in my mind with unhealthy&hospital. I've been at a very healthy stable weight for 5 years as before that all the medications had meant I put on a lot of weight & when i was unwell eating 1st thing to go.

Yet in 2012, years before RH dx in 2015 it was visiting a nutritionist & embracing a low carb/gd fats/no sugars diet by with regular smaller meals that helped me stabalize my weight and feel better than in years & eating something even when in arthritis flares etc. I'm so frustrated that i listened to all the you need complex carb for your brain etc. All my Hb1ac tests have been in the 4s in last 18 months altho i don't know what my last one was but I'll ask tomorrow. My cholesterol was 3.9. I'm lactose intolerant.

Hubby really helped me feel better about trying very low carb after we discussed my fears and pulled it apart a bit. Its very foreign to me to eat the skin off the chicken etc Yet I'm now not craving things like I was on more carbs, things I never used to eat anyway before all this!

I guess I'm wondering how if hopefully I'm making any sense you might be able to help me challenge my fears and drummed in beliefs?

What's the difference between the lchf ketosis and the ketosis i went into as a young person? Daft question i know but i think I need to feel reassured although i know part of difference is in eating and not eating...i still feel overwhelmed by how ive felt in last year or so.

Do others find fevers affect their sugars and how do you cope with no appetite brought on by other conditions?

Thank you( especially for letting me ramble)!

Hi and welcome (again)

It sounds as if you are doing really well!

I can't answer your ketosis question, except to show you this graph, and make a suggestion (although really it is just speculation!)
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As you can see on the graph, 'ketosis' covers a really big range. From just into it, through 'starvation' and right up to where ketoacidosis starts. Ketoacidosis is a nasty business that normally only happens to Type 1 diabetics, and can make them very ill. Maybe you strayed into that zone? I would imagine that ketosis feels different at different points, and I know that ketoacidosis feels horrible.

But it is worth remembering that if you are eating low carb, and you aren't having glucose spikes, and your body is producing enough insulin (which it must be, or you would have dangerously high blood glucose) then your ketosis isn't harming you.

There are urine testing strips you can buy in pharmacies, if you want to check your ketone levels. There are also blood ketone tests too, which are more accurate but also cost more.

I know that @Kaz261 didn't like being in ketosis, whereas I love it and feel really well. So we must have very personal reactions to it.

In answer to your other question, whether fever affect blood glucose? The answer is a resounding YES! Fever, viruses, tiredness, pain... They all impact.

Glad to have you posting again

Thank you @Brunneria and hello . Really sometimes I think I'm getting somewhere then other times I just wonder where its all at. I try and remember how long its been since I had anything remotely processed (other than the wholegrains in recent months), any sugars, 2.5 yrs since my last take aways, I didn't even eat any of the food at my own wedding. Penny dropping moment!A normal distribution graph was all I needed to get it We had then been discussing the difference between then & now and i think if my poor husband had to say again "yes but you are eating and have fat to burn!" he was going to start rocking. I think you're right I'd strayed into starvation, pretty sure not keto acidosis although i don't remember much. It's such a different scenario now. I'm feeling much more intune with my body this last week than i have in months. I feel like I can start to trust the messages again, well most of them. I ordered some urine strips at the same time as my bg strips so hopefully here soon as I thought the same, i can reassure myself until i find my happy zone.

A freestyle libre I ordered arrived today but until I get my bg strips for my established monitor to compare it with & feel sure its reading in right vacinity I'm not sure about its readings. Though it's showing I'm in the 4s and saying I dropped to 3.7 at 17.00 (I did swipe because I felt very strange). Seeing as I havent seen the 4s for a long time maybe good, yet 3s isnt. I put the libre on at 13.30 and was at 5.1 and been in thr 4s since until the 3.7,back in the 4s now. Umm didn't have much fat at all the last 2 times I ate(turkey with kale & then with carrots, no skin available & didn't add any oil doh just chicken stock )whereas previously I'd had salmon & veg with oil . I really do feel lchf is the way for me tho,even if my brain keeps throwing in long standing rationale. Then again my temp is still a bit temperamental at the moment, it's weird a bit like my bg its been in the normal range last couple of days most of the time yet it jumps about from the lowest to the highest and a bit more. It's funny how many things are now stuck to me.

Can I ask what fever does do, can it raise your bg? Or lower it? I'm been figuring it will mess with it both ways...2 endocrinologist told me high fevers wouldn't have been messing with YOUR blood sugar and I've felt for months it must be my control of it then...despite knowing that really it wasn't! I'm pretty sure high sugar rollercoaster swings were doing me no good either and I'm sure stressed my system enough to let the arthritis come back after it had taken more of a back seat for couple of years on lower carb. Honestly if i hadn't have found this forum...

It doesn't help that my Reactive Arthritis doesn't tick the boxes either and my Rheaumatologist regular says not sure what to do with me. I got that after scarlett fever in2008. Plus I have endometriosis, so all issues that are mainly a medical mystery and have been dismissed a lot since I was a teenager by many a consultant, lucilky I found an awesome Gyny . Since major surgery 3 yrs ago coz of the endometrosis (hysterectomy,adhesions etc) life changed a lot as until then I worked,had a social life, got on regardless etc...so my confidence as been knocked by what is going on in my body & which messages from it to trust,long time friends defriending me because I needed to get out more etc... maybe too much getting on regardless caught up. I think the bg issue have been there since i was young, from 7 i used to faint a lot which could be prevented or made better by a biscuit (i never did like digestives however efficient). I stopped fainting around 10yrs old tho. I wish there was a dr who could look at the whole body and all the systems.

Been going over the lchf links scattered about here again gradually to slowly incorporate info. I do like to try and get the hang instantly and well must remember time to assimilate.

What fat is good to add?? Maybe I need to go back to nuts again to get it up which I was when I was on the nutrtionalist low carb diet.

Thanks again.

I think one of the worst things about RH is that it is scary, and instead of helping, most of the advice given to us by prefessionals is BAD, and makes us worse. Complex carbs. Yada, yada. They haven't got a clue. Until we discover that food is the cause and the answer, we feel totally powerless.

Congrats for discovering LC under your own steam. It is usually so counter-intuitive that people are living on short term carb fixes.

The fever thing is different for us, and I think, depending on the fever. Probably depends on immune system, and type of fever. I had flu this spring, and it didn't touch my bg. But food poisoning had me bouncing about like a ping pong ball. No consistency.

I find the Libre is a bit unrelable for the first day or so, then it settles down.

Different ppl find different fats work best for them. I seem to thrive on saturated animal fats. Great cholesterol on cheese, cream, butter meat, fish, eggs...

Other people find they do better on fish oils and mono veg oils like olive oil (although all fats and oils are really a combo of all three, mono, poly and saturated. I think we each need to try a way of eating for a good few months before giving up and trying another fat type.

Yeah it can be so scary & just when you think yay I've got a diagnosis and then you feel even more dismissed! I'm very blessed with my GP thank goodness, who's been very supportive of me learning, reading and monitoring any way I can & not all pills and standard medical dogma. I really felt I was failing somehow until a few days ago and couldn't see the wood for the trees, that somehow it was all my fault that I've been feeling so ill & of I just got the hang of it. When I see the GP no more smiles, I'm gonna be honest about how rough it still is and I feel. You guys that are doing so well are a good focus and that is slightly different like you say @Brunneria for everyone, I'm listening to my body again for starters & not ignoring it.

I've been trying to pm someone but for some reason the app won't let me, maybe it thinks I'm being too cheeky, is it possible for someone to pm me the names and details of the wonderful RH interested endocrinologist that has been discussed around the forum? My GP is happy to refer me if I can get the info. I'm very happy to travel wherever at this point. Thank you

Hi Neneh and welcome back.

Brun is right, I don't like being in ketosis. It doesn't seem to suit me at all. I do however firmly believe I'm hovering just out side of ketosis and have been able to control my RH symptoms.

Just to give you some hope and encouragement, it took me a long time to gain control of my bs. I'm sure there was improvements right from the start but they were subtle and I had too many random days to notice! In time things can and will improve.

I don't have the other medical conditions that you have, but I know if you keep experimenting with your food you will get results.

Try not to get too anxious or stressed as it will make control so
much more difficult. Easier said than done, I know!

I too was feeling very overwhelmed to begin with. Making lots of changes and effort with my diet with seemingly no benefits. You do get there eventually though. It takes time to fine tune your diet and eating pattern but it's worth the effort. I finely have my life back. It'll never be the same as it was but it's a 100 times better than it was this time last year.

I'm away at the minute but will be home in a couple of days. I don't have the knowledge or experience of some of the others on here, but I'm happy to help any way I can.

Best wishes

Thank you @nosher. I better start posting then, constructively of course. It's so reassuring to hear everything you & brunneria have to say! Especially how well it works for you! It would be lovely if the diet has a knock on affect on all my health. I do remember how i felt when i was low carb for a while after nutritionist but then got told to not go too far! It would be so much better than going on the disease modifiers I was told was pretty much my only option if my arthritis didn't settle & too be honest Ive been at a point ready just for relief. I do feel that I've turned a corner in my mind mostly plus so supportive having my husband on the same page & to keep me on it. He was just having a Lil rant on my behalf about how awful the standard advice is. Not sure I'd get a word in if he came in with me when I see the GP this morning.
I eat a lot of eggs, ok so feel pretty ok with my veg & meat but gonna start testing fats. The other fun is the lack of appetite and nausea that comes with a flares. The only thing I've really noticed with going vlc is more headache & weird taste in my mouth. That's easing now Is it daft that I'm feeling excited about getting the Consultant information.

If you are getting headaches, then drink more water. Lots more. It is a sign you may be in ketosis, and that means you are breaking down fats. Drinking more, will ease the headaches.

The weird taste in your mouth may also be ketosis related. And the drinking will help with that too. I have only ever had that very mildly, and it fades quickly.

Also, are you drinking broth? or supplementing minerals? Have a google for Low Carb Broth and you will see why I ask.

You may find that a very low carb diet is good for inflammation, and therefore good at easing arthritis. I get issues with hands and knees, which flare up as soon as I raise my carbs, and ease off a few days after I go very low carb again.

I'm a terror for self experimentation. Life is boring if I haven't got some kind of Curiosity to investigate. lol. At the moment, I am eating a few low carb desserts and biscuits, to see what effect that has - and so far it is interesting. No impact on bloodglucose at all, and they ARE delicious. But they've increased my food intake, and fat intake, so waiting to see what effect that has (no weight gain, as yet, after 3 weeks, but no loss either)

As you know, I totally agree with your husband. There doesn't seem to be any understanding that one size most definitely doesn't fit all.

Hi Nosher! I did thank you, much appreciated! Still can't do replies though. Apologies, I went round in a few circles in last couple of hours trying to find here; was hitting the wrong "discussion" link & then getting interested in other threads.

Actually got some rest & sleep this arvo,most relaxed in so long. Getting the consultant information as I returned home after docs was brill as GP said she'd refer me anywhere plus I managed a walk after and I knew you guys will get this, being out for 4 hrs without any major weird RH moments. So despite my other health stuff still disrupting my sleep & being ouchy & feeling a long way from me, it's the closest I've felt to me in a long time. I've read actual books this week as well .

I really hope my surgery agree to the out of area referral, Nosher do you think the consultant will be happy to see me, is there a criteria, is he used to random RHs wanting to see him?

Brunneria broth is so yummy, used to drink a lot tho not as much in last few months, my husband makes it low carb it turns out when we looked, he used to be a chef so he's handy. So the only tweak will b some salt & getting getting back into it. Funny I was so much closer to the food suggestions here before dx even tho still far from it and then just slowly started to bow to pressure, more out of desperation. It's funny I haven't eaten cereal for years and I actually started crying at the sight of rice & pasta when someone presented it in the few months before dx...I couldn't explain my reactions. I've rely enjoyed my food today! Really been drinking like a fish today& salt. We've both stated taking our trace minerals again today and it just feels like I'm listening to my body again. How do low carb and biscuit work ha? Curious, nothing beats a good experiment.

Kaz thank you., you're all so kind! Hope away is somewhere nice

I feel like I've got a long way to go yet that now I got a vague plan&loads of info plus seeing hubby go off to do some archeology type digging without worrying about me is the best!!!

I really being given the time think on all the info you guys are giving me and then come back with a million more questions!

Sounds like you are doing wonderfully.

Low carb biscuit recipes can be found all over the web. Just google 'Low carb .... (whatever biscuit)'

OF course, they don't taste like normal biscuits. Those days are long gone. But hey, when you haven't tasted a real biscuit in years, these taste **** fine. lol. They are usually made with almond flour and sweeteners. But I use erythritol, which doesn't taste of anything but sweetness (no chemical taint), and nuts are great for us.

Here is one of the better recipe sites. Your husband may enjoy playing with a few recipes.
http://www.ibreatheimhungry.com/2015/12/30-best-low-carb-cookie-recipes-gluten-free.html

Hi all,

Have wanted to post for a while to update;arthritis rather has other ideas, fevers settled & onto the next stage of swollen joints and sleeping for England. Makes for a less rambley person after all that sleep

Nosher thank you I found out today that I got an out of area referral to your consultant, fingers crossed for acceptance. Always a bit nervous of new drs.

So been doing the v low carb since mid Aug now & definitely feel better for it even with my arthritis etc. Still getting quick spikes and drops, no hypos-below 4 though!!! Can't work my spikes out, would love to pick your brains?

Exercise is crucial for anyones metabolism & that is tough when arthritis is flared, have to keep moving but if i don't pace or push joints before they unstiffen asking for other issues. The arthritis is taking as much time as i have to manage that to prevent muscle&joint weakness and pace coz of fatigue &temps. Have found a forum for it just like here, suddenly after years all these things feel a lil better with others who get it. I'll be going on disease modifiers soon so no more horrid bg messing steroids . Tho the one they want to give me can give people hypoglyceamic attacks?!

So I have my libre readings and if I get them on the laptop and share maybe you guys can see something I'm missing, maybe I'm eating something;i feel I'm missing something? I feel happiest not going over 6.2-6.3, it's like i feel weird over that especially as it usually means i quick spike to 6.7-7.2, it seems more like the speed it goes there, under 10 mins.

Lots of fresh meat/fish and veg/salad, fluids, broth, a few nuts and tried pork scratching for first time ever (ones with only salt added). Have added full fat mayo back to help with fat on certain things-tuna. Its been strange yet so nice.

Bruneria I've found sweetners really spike me and haven't dare go near them for months. They really sound yummy though, maybe I'll get to that point one day, look so much nicer than the usual sugar ones tbh.

There are lots of different sweeteners.
Natural (ish) like xylitol, erythritol and stevia
More chemical ones like aspartame, sucralose, etc.

If you've tried some that don't agree with you, it is worth trying the others.

Me? I have horrible side effects from everything but the first 3 i mentioned. Xylitol is poisonous to dogs, so i avoid having it in the house (although it has a better flavour than sugar, in my opinion, and no aftertaste. Stevia does leave me with a bitter aftertaste. So that means I use erythritol.

My advice to you is to keep trying til you have either tried them all, or found something that works for you.

Spiker said:

My sister has reactive hypoglycaemia. What are the symptoms for you? Do you know if it's genetic? I have LADA.

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I have RH. I have mood swings, retain fluid if I'm low in sugar, can't exercise, any stress has an awful affect on my bs, fatigue, go very pale.

Spiker said:

My sister has reactive hypoglycemia. What are the symptoms for you? Do you know if it's genetic? I have LADA.

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I had it in my late teens 20's once in a while. Sometimes it would come on real bad after a high fat meal (with or without carbs). I felt all my energy was drained out of me, sweaty, extremely shaky and dying from hunger even if I just ate. I felt beyond craving sugar but felt almost like it was a matter of life or death. I would get to the nearest store for a bag of Chocolate chip cookies and a quart of chocolate milk. I was told I would get Type 2 later in life because that is a warning sign that my beta cells would burn out and die of exhaustion eventually. I did not develop Type 2 until my middle 50's so I guess the nurse was right...sort of. I was overweight, out of shape and ate terribly so I would've developed Type 2 most likely anyway. Repeatedly being hypoglycemic however would no doubt indicate a chronic high insulin which will hasten diabetes because of resistance to insulin developing.