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Reactive Hypoglycemia - flat curve response

Discussion in 'Reactive Hypoglycemia' started by misdiagnosed, Nov 25, 2015.

  1. misdiagnosed

    misdiagnosed Prediabetes · Member

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    Ok - I was diagnosed as borderline diabetic in 1986, and was put on a diet. In 2010 I read books from the library about reactive hypoglycemia and switched to that diet instead, and got much better results.
    But I suspected that my husband has reactive hypoglycemia and we did a home GTT test on him, as our GP in the UK refused to give him that test.
    The results we got from that showed that he has flat curve response reactive hypoglycemia. He has nearly all the symptoms shown in "the low blood sugar handbook" by ED and Patricia Krimmel. That book is very informative and I fully recommend it.
    His fasting was 5.9 then throughout the full 6 hours he remained lower than his fasting and finished at 4.1 Also he had dropped lower than his fasting within 1 hour.
    The problem we are having is convincing the GP's in the UK that he has this condition, as they say he has to drop much lower than than to have reactive hypoglycemia. All the specialists in America and Austrialia have much better information than UK, as they recognise that this is flat curve respose reactive hypoglycermia and they say it is not how low but how soon it drops and how long it is below the fasting level that counts for more, added to this the patients symptoms. Obviously we would prefer a more accurate intravenous test, and the GP's are simply refusing to test my husband with the proper 6 hour GTT test that we beleive is required to diagnose this problem.
    GP's in UK seem to have no undrstanding of this condition either. Cus I have read in many reactive hypoglycemia books that symptoms can take 4 months to improve even on the correct diet. And our GP's say that he would have been better after just one meal!
    My husband is suffering from terrible mental health problems, and medication didn't last for him and made him worse. I read in these books that medication will not last for someone with reactive hypoglycemia if they don't change their diet.
    We have 4 children and we want them to also be tested - to reduce future serious problems. But we are simply getting no help from the GP's in the UK for this. Does anyone have any advise for us in England please. I already have all the good advice from the charity group in America www.hypoglycemia.org - but we need proffesional support from Enland UK please.
    They keep using all the wrong tests. I don't beleive the HB1AC would find reactive hypoglycemia either, cus you are not given sugar to see the reaction that gives. Can anyone help us with this?
     
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  2. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Guru

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    Hi and welcome!

    Glad you found us.
    I'm afraid i can't offer you anything by way of official support and contact to organisations, but several of us on here have found diet to be a fantastic tool in controlling RH - and it certainly doesn't take 4 months to feel the benefits!

    Can i ask what diet your books suggest?
     
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  3. misdiagnosed

    misdiagnosed Prediabetes · Member

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    The diet is NONE OF THE FOLLOWING I use a funny name CAT SAW to remind me.
    Avoid the following
    Caffeine
    Alcohol
    Tobacco
    Sugar
    Artificial Additives
    White refined flours or grains
    All these produce too fast insulin spike.
    Eat 6 smaller meals a day or 3 snacks and 3 smaller than usual main meals
    But this is all explained better in the Krimmel book. Cus it goes into details better about the low GI's too.

    Yes I bet a lot of people will feel better sooner, but since my husband as an unusual flat response curve - he will take longer to feel better. And his cells need to repair after 54 years of the wrong diet. He ate a lot of white refined pasta.

    What is the Ketogenic Diet?
     
  4. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    Hi @misdiagnosed

    Welcome to our forum.
    I have reactive hypoglycaemia. Diagnosed by my really good endocrinologist, who changed my life. I control my condition with diet with a little help from my meds.
    There is some good information in the forum that we RH ers have posted and how we treat the condition. RH is a food digestion problem, a blood glucose disorder, it can be treated by diet and there is not a cure. But you can live very well by eating for your health.
     
  5. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    A ketogenic lifestyle is very, very low carb, full fat way of eating.
    It literally means that you get your energy from your body fat rather than the carbs you eat.

    I don't eat many carbs at all.

    It is the carbs even in low GI foods that spike us. I literally live off natural meat and salad veg.
    Protein is good, any GI foods are bad. I don't go above 6mmols at all if possible.
    This gives me my energy and am fit and well after so long.
    I can understand the brain stuff you describe, I call it my hypo hell.
    Do read the forum and our stories and learn how we have controlled how it affects us.

    Diet is the way!
     
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  6. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Guru

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    Hi, thanks.

    A lot of that diet makes sense to me - but I am unclear about one thing; is it no white flours or grains, or no starchy carbs (so no potato, brown rice, brown pasta, brown bread)?

    I ask because brown/wholegrain/wholewheat carbs are just as bad for my RH as the white carbs - so i avoid them all.

    Do you have a blood glucose monitor so you can check your husband's level after these foods? I find the brown carb spike-and-drop is slightly later, but just as nasty.

    To answer your question, a ketogenic diet is one where the body gets very little fuel from carbs (typically it is just meat, fish, eggs, dairy, cheese, tofu, non-starchy veg, non tropical fruit, oils, nuts, etc.) think steak n salad, huge salads. Because there aren't many carbs in the diet, calories come from fats and protein. This means that the body breaks these down not to glucose as fuel, but ketones as fuel. Just as efficient, but with the huge benefit that you don't get the glucose highs and lows.

    My RH is totally controlled by this (adjusting to ketosis and a ketogenic diet takes a couple of weeks) at which point, hypos almost never happen to me. In fact, it is fair to say that nowadays i only hypo when i mess up my ketogenic diet. :D
     
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  7. misdiagnosed

    misdiagnosed Prediabetes · Member

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    Wow ...Yes that does make sense to me. Even the Krimmel diet book said that some people with RH are even intolerant to wholegrains, and I have found that with me and my husband. And I do feel much better with salad and protein. The carbs we mainly have are broccoli cus they are low GI too. Are you even bad with broccoli?
    Tofu sounds like a good idea cus we don't want to have too much meat, cus that would be unhealthy. We already snack a lot with nuts. Almonds mainly. I prefer berries for fruit, and no more than 2 portions a day.
    The veg we mainly have are broccoli, cauliflower ,mushrooms, kale, celery, peppers, salad, have you found these to be ok?
    Yes I agree bread even wholegrain makes us worse, and potatoes we avoid them too.
    My husband seems more depressed than me cus the flat curve response means he stayed below his fasting throughout the 6 hour gtt test.(that we had to do ourselves!). So his past diet seems to have caused him long term depression. Antidepressants made him worse, and I desperately want to get him properly diagnosed - but I am hitting brick walls all the time. I go high and low which I think is more common with RH.(He just stays permanently below his fasting level on the wrong food.) So I soon get stable on this diet. But because my husband has been misdiagnosed he has only just started eating like me. He still gets loads of headaches and eye socket pains and I did read in those books from America that he will take 4 months to get over those.because he has a rare form (Flat curve Response). He keeps going worse when he has indian curry meals and he does ask them to leave out sugar - but I really don't know what is in them.They make him very moody the next day, and his pains worse. I think it is those take aways that are holding him back. I don't have the indian take aways.
    What portion of protein are you having to salad or veg? We are having lots of salad or broccoli and smaller amounts of protein cus we worry about heart problems. We don't currently have heart problems - but we want to remain healthy.
    Thank you soo much for your kind replies.
     
  8. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Guru

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    Hi again,

    Have you been aware of the connection between vit D deficiency and depression? The reason i ask is that there have been a lot of people who arrive on this forum who have low levels of vit D. I am one of them, and have experienced a profound lifting of my mood since i stated supplementing with Vit D.

    The reason i mention this is that there are links between low vit D, depression and autoimmune diseases. Actually, i din't even know if RH ticks the boxes to be classed as an autoimmune disease, but it seems likely, since it often develops, over time, into T2 diabetes, which is linked to many other auto immune diseases (they tend to cluster).

    You mentioned indian takeaways. The issue is probably in his choice of curry and the breads and rice. I love a good curry, cook them regularly, and we eat out at several different indian restaurants - but my food choices all stick to options that will keep me in ketosis.

    This means
    No bread
    No rice
    No potato dishes
    No thick sweet creamy or fruity sauces (no korma or pasanda) they can be sweetened with sugar, potato, parsnip, sweet potato... Even dhansak and lentil dishes are too sweet for me.
    I choose drier, un-sweet meat dishes (shashlick, butter chicken, kebab, grills)
    I order side dishes like onion bhaji, brinjal or cauli or okra bhajis, sag paneer.
    No dessert

    The result is a lovely sustained blood glucose, no highs, no lows, a delicious meal, no indigestion and no food-hangover in the morning.

    You have mentioned your husband's flat bg response, and it put me in mind of this you tube video


    It is a long, slow watch, but worth every second, because is explains the role of insulin and what is going wrong to get a flat response. It is talking about T2Diabetes, but the principle is the same.

    You asked if i eat broccoli. Yup. All the time. I avoid all the grains and all the starchy root veg (other people can tolerate them better, so it is best to work out your own tolerances for these things). I eat a lot of varied veg, just not the starchy ones.
     
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  9. Linagirl

    Linagirl Don't have diabetes · Well-Known Member

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    This post has cheered me up no end Brun!! I love a good curry and thought is never be able to have one out again. I'll just need to check on the gluten front but I will give it a go!!
     
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  10. Linagirl

    Linagirl Don't have diabetes · Well-Known Member

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    How much vit d do you add? I'm
    On 800iu at the moment xx
     
  11. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    You can't beat a really good Indian restaurant meal!
    Unfortunately, you can't eat one now!
    You have to make a homemade one instead!

    But, you can eat the tandoori meat, hmmmm!
    Half a chicken if someone is ordering please!
     
  12. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Guru

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    @nosher8355

    We eat out at indians regularly! I just choose the right things... :)
     
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  13. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Guru

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    There is a lot of debate on this. I strongly suggest you do your own research.
    There are a lot of different recommendations. It also depends whether you are taking Vit D2 or Vit D3 supplements, how much sun you get, the colour of your skin, which country you live in, and whether you are skinny, obese or in between.

    The best thing to do would be to get tested - via doc, or private lab test (mine cost me £28 privately), and go from there.

    This video may help.

    (I'm stuck in a holiday cottage at the mo with dreadful wifi, so i can't watch this you tube vid to check it has the info you need, but i think it is the right one! Lol. If it isn't, let me know, and i will sort the correct vid out when i get home, at the weekend).

    At the moment, i am taking 5,000 iu vit D3 daily, and if i forget, i take 10,000 the next day. Some people will tell you this is too much. I also take Vit K to balance this, to ensure max benefit.
     
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  14. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    Some of the sauces or curries are too much for me. But I could eat tandoori chicken for ever!
     
  15. Linagirl

    Linagirl Don't have diabetes · Well-Known Member

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    I'm excited about the tandoori chicken chicken alone!

    Thanks Brun I'll have a look. I am
    Only taking 800IU at the moment. I was 20 when tested a year ago and I think that's a chronic deficiency. My doc said they will test again next time I have bloods taken xx
     
  16. Linagirl

    Linagirl Don't have diabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone heard from Kaz lately just wondered how she was doing?
     
  17. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    I'm sure I seen a post by her this morning, or I could be dreaming or confused or forgetful! Lol! I'm almost certain I did, almost!

    I was wrong, last night it was, doh!
     
  18. misdiagnosed

    misdiagnosed Prediabetes · Member

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    Thanks for this informative video. Yes I was diagnosed through pregnancy, and this saddens me that other people will fall through the net. Cus I was just told not to worry cus it is common in pregnancy and falsely told it would just go away. My son was 9lb 4oz and I wasn't told that it would be hereditary like this video is saying. After the baby I was checked with a OGGT test. This is when you are given sugar to drink - this really shows how people react to having sugar. And this is the test that I am saying should be given to people who are suffering mental health problems, instead of just palming them off with anti depressants. I was just told that I was borderline and to watch my diet. And since I was just told to cut down on sugar and have wholegrains instead of refined grains - I was put on the wrong diet. That was in 1986. Then in 2010 I got better educated after reading those books from America. But I am soo glad to have found this site in England now. We live in Preston Lancashire. It is so good to have found a group of people here in UK who share the same problems. "The low blood sugar handbook" by Ed Krimmel and Pat Krimmel says many RH have low vit B too. And that book did say that some with RH cannot tolerate grains at all. But it also had lots of other good information too. I do recommend that book.
    Thanks for your super diet tips.
     
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  19. misdiagnosed

    misdiagnosed Prediabetes · Member

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    Which vit D do you recommend? I like ones that are as natural as possible.
     
  20. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    It seems that I'm one of those that are wheat or grain intolerant
    I'm also dairy intolerant but not lactose intolerant, had tests!
    I can't stand cooked veg either!
    I'm so fussy on what goes in what I eat!
     
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