Repeated Antibody tests - what now!?

[FR]

Most T1's don't have any health issues before developing diabetes, so some people are bound to develop it right after a jab, or right after getting married, or right after getting their drivers licence.
Correlation is not the same as causality.
You might well have developed diabetes without that jab (or marriage, or drivers licence), there is no way to tell.

Agree - no way to tell - but there there is growing scientific research supporting covid / covid vaccination being a trigger for type 2 / type 1 diabetes and autoimmune disease - covid vaccination has been far too highly politicised so a more open scientific discussion is needed

 

[Antje77]

Agree - no way to tell - but there there is growing scientific research supporting covid / covid vaccination being a trigger for type 2 / type 1 diabetes and autoimmune disease - covid vaccination has been far too highly politicised so a more open scientific discussion is needed

That's a completely different subject. Not at all the same as being sure your T1 was caused by the covid jab.
You're free to start a thread on research on covid jabs being a trigger for diabetes but on this thread it's off topic.

 

[KennyA]

Thanks - apologies - I'm new to the forum - didn’t realise - are their rules I can look up

You'll find a link to forum rules in my signature block below.

 

[Marie 2]

The Honeymoon period can last a long time, over 8 years plus. There are theories, that starting insulin helps protect what beta cells you have for longer. That low carbing, puts less work on the beta cells so they work better and last longer too.

I have heard of people going off insulin for a bit when they have changed to low carb, I don't think that lasts for that long, but I'm not sure I ever kept track. I am of the mindset that you might as well start using insulin sooner versus later as you are going to have to have it at some point. You might as well start learning how to use in tiny amounts first and learn it's effects when you have more of a choice and it's not as critical. It makes you more comfortable with using it when eventually you have to rely on it for anything you basically eat. Even a bowl of broccoli. That's just my opinion though. Some people just want to avidly avoid it as long as possible.

 

[jonathan183]

Not anticipated was the massive rise in GAD Ab, as I thought it would fall if my beta cells had been comprehensively killed off. But I understand that GAD Abs can also be raised in other autoimmune conditions, including thyroid disease and pernicious anaemia plus some very rare neurological conditions. Thankfully I have no symptoms of anything but my diabetes, so who knows why?

I've had 4 Covid vaccinations and one mild case of Covid (probably Omicron variant). I didn't really see any changes with my blood glucose readings that could have been linked to these.

Aristo Vojdani did some testing which might go some way to explaining cross sensitivity ... example paper here.

 

[Mrs HJG]

The Honeymoon period can last a long time, over 8 years plus. There are theories, that starting insulin helps protect what beta cells you have for longer. That low carbing, puts less work on the beta cells so they work better and last longer too.

I have heard of people going off insulin for a bit when they have changed to low carb, I don't think that lasts for that long, but I'm not sure I ever kept track. I am of the mindset that you might as well start using insulin sooner versus later as you are going to have to have it at some point. You might as well start learning how to use in tiny amounts first and learn it's effects when you have more of a choice and it's not as critical. It makes you more comfortable with using it when eventually you have to rely on it for anything you basically eat. Even a bowl of broccoli. That's just my opinion though. Some people just want to avidly avoid it as long as possible.

I was on tiny amounts of Humulin M3 8 units down to 3 (?) for 3 weeks when diagnosed and my bloods were in the high teens but I was hypo-ing in about 10 days, so I came off as it was a ridiculous waste of time, energy and stress. I don't want to go through all that agro with the DVLA again until I have to, don't want to be checking my blood every time I get an unexpected call to go get the kids from school, or I want to spontaneously pop to the shops and having to wait until I am at the right level, and I definitely don't want to be pumping myself full of anything I don't need (yet).

I am holding out that by the time I need insulin the technology and NHS budget will mean I don't have to turn my brain into a pancreas, I have enough going on in my life to not need to do that too. My HbA1c is non-diabetic, so I am happy to eat well and low carb (sorry, big yogurt, meat, cheese and egg eater here), and avoid glucose-raising stress for as long as it lasts.

Just now my Libre says I am at 3.8, It'll probably adjust to about 4.5 in 15 minutes, as I've just been racing about before coming to bed, but no way would I want any additional insulin working it's magic on me too!

I know this forum and elsewhere are full of heartbreaking stories of not being able to get dosages correct, extreme hypos etc (and I know there's not much of a call for multiple threads on how folks got their carb/insulin ratios spot on) but the longer I can live without any complications like that, I'm going to grab it and run! We're all different, but I know I am always one for the easiest route; I breast fed all my kids, 'cause who has time for sterilising bottles, especially for twins, if they don't need to!! TMI?

 

[oldgreymare]

Aristo Vojdani did some testing which might go some way to explaining cross sensitivity ... example paper here.

@jonathan183,

Interesting paper. I went back and checked the exact dates of my Covid vaccinations and I had received my first vaccine 3 weeks before my GADAb test. So could well be reason for the unusually elevated GADAb result. Thankfully I haven't had any reactions to the vaccines (AZ, Pfizer, Moderna) plus one mild case of Covid.

 

[Melgar]

I have googled about again for the research that I read to find the bit about the effect of exogenous insulin on antibody tests, but to no avail - I went down a very deep rabbit hole before posting my original question because I couldn't find any answers, so not sure what links from links I ended up with, sorry.

I am holding out to become a research subject for many reasons, its hard not being 'typical'.

Can a high stress situation trigger an autoimmune response, which, when the stressful situation recedes so does the autoimmune response? A while back I read a case in one of the medical journals about a lady of Asian ethnicity was having hypos (I was researching hypos at the time due to me having a swarm of them, and sorry this was a while back so I don't have the reference) anyways, this lady underwent a whole series of tests to find out the cause of her hypos. The tests indicated that she had elevated GAD antibodies. So I guess they were thinking LADA. At the time this lady was going through a relationship break-up and was under a lot of stress. Once, however, her stressful situation resolved, her GAD antibodies went back to normal. And of course the body can perceive and react to many things, such as an illness, or a shot/jab, and the body reacts to it as a stress. I am just throwing this out there. As I read the threads I was reminded of this lady.

 

[Mrs HJG]

@Melgar I would say that was probably a coincidence. I spoke with my Endo this week, and although my antibodies have reduced, he felt this was due to my new low carb/exercise routine, but could not be certain, my c-peptide will be repeated in another 6 months. Guessing the lady you mention might have just stopped eating when she was stressed, but 'normal' GAD would be zero.

 

[HSSS]

Can a high stress situation trigger an autoimmune response, which, when the stressful situation recedes so does the autoimmune response? A while back I read a case in one of the medical journals about a lady of Asian ethnicity was having hypos (I was researching hypos at the time due to me having a swarm of them, and sorry this was a while back so I don't have the reference) anyways, this lady underwent a whole series of tests to find out the cause of her hypos. The tests indicated that she had elevated GAD antibodies. So I guess they were thinking LADA. At the time this lady was going through a relationship break-up and was under a lot of stress. Once, however, her stressful situation resolved, her GAD antibodies went back to normal. And of course the body can perceive and react to many things, such as an illness, or a shot/jab, and the body reacts to it as a stress. I am just throwing this out there. As I read the threads I was reminded of this lady.

LADA/type 1 from gad antibodies would normally cause a rise in blood glucose not a hypo wouldn’t it though? Hypo are more insulin than required to manage bgl to normal levels at that point in time, most often caused by exogenous insulin or other hypoglycaemic medications, starvation or occasionally other conditions like reactive hypoglycaemia or a few other rare ones.

 

[Melgar]

LADA/type 1 from gad antibodies would normally cause a rise in blood glucose not a hypo wouldn’t it though? Hypo are more insulin than required to manage bgl to normal levels at that point in time, most often caused by exogenous insulin or other hypoglycaemic medications, starvation or occasionally other conditions like reactive hypoglycaemia or a few other rare ones.

Not according to one study out of Sweden entitled: Insulin Autoimmune Syndrome as Part of Pre-Clinical LADA. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8043793/

 

[HSSS]

Not according to one study out of Sweden entitled: Insulin Autoimmune Syndrome as Part of Pre-Clinical LADA. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8043793/

“Hyperinsulinemic hypoglycemia, known as Hirata’s disease or IAS (insulin autoimmune syndrome), can be one of the causes of hypoglycemia. It is a rare disease…..”

So pretty much falls in my category of “few other rare ones”

Also whilst the subject had both insulin autoantibody and GAD from my quick reading it seems it is the IAA as above, rather than the GAD, that can cause hypos. Maybe i missed something though.

If you read through to the discussion and conclusion it seems that there were in fact several proposals as to what was going on in that lady’s unconfirmed hypoglycaemia as well as the IAS, and “ the case should be considered an incidental diagnosis”

Not sure this paper proves me wrong on anything I said about GAD

 

[Melgar]

“Hyperinsulinemic hypoglycemia, known as Hirata’s disease or IAS (insulin autoimmune syndrome), can be one of the causes of hypoglycemia. It is a rare disease…..”

So pretty much falls in my category of “few other rare ones”

Also whilst the subject had both insulin autoantibody and GAD from my quick reading it seems it is the IAA as above, rather than the GAD, that can cause hypos. Maybe i missed something though.

If you read through to the discussion and conclusion it seems that there were in fact several proposals as to what was going on in that lady’s unconfirmed hypoglycaemia as well as the IAS, and “ the case should be considered an incidental diagnosis”

Not sure this paper proves me wrong on anything I said about GAD

I did and I do take your point. I was interested in the hypo aspect of it in relation to autoimmune issues and your comment brought this research paper to mind. Thanks for your reply and explanation.

 

[Annb]

The exact details of your Covid jabs are in your Covid passport, in the NHS App and on your medical record, down to the specific batch number of each injection. Even if you were done at a walk-in centre, or a surgery other than your own, your GP would have been informed.

when I was doing shifts at a vaccine centre, we even had to inform one couple’s GD in New Zealand. They were so incredibly grateful to be done, to be in with a chance of being allowed back into NZ.

What is a Covid Passport?

 

[AndBreathe]

What is a Covid Passport?

Don't worry, you get one, whether you want it or not.

It's just a section of your NHS record that indicated is you are vaccinated or not. It is visible in the NHS App.

 

[LisaR162]

Covid AstraZeneca vaccine was my trigger for LADA - was it yours too?

I become type 1 diabetic couple weeks after my first covid jab with AstraZeneca so im wondering if the jab caused mine as in January i was fine and low nothing to say near diabetic then couple weeks after jab i ended up in hospital not knowing what was wrong with me i was diagnosed with DKA and on 2 lots of insulin now.

 

[Mrs HJG]

@LisaR162 when were you diagnosed and did you have a high HbA1c? As that is the average over the previous 8-12 week period, if the jab triggered it, I would have thought that your HbA1c wouldn't have been that high after only a fortnight. I am sure it will be many many years before any link can be proven, if its there.