Rethinking my BMI target

[CherryAA]

I started this process a year ago with a BMI of 41% (category II obesity) , as of today I am at 31% (category I obesity) - and my weight loss has stalled .

I'm 5 dress sizes down - now being a UK size 16 (not seen since my early teens ) .

All of my markers are now excellent though still with highish blood pressure controlled by meds, though frankly even without meds, it generally stays below 140/90.

I've been on a weight plateau for 6 months now, and no matter what I do to rethink it, I keep failing to make that next leap.

In my head I keep retaining the holy grail of say 22.5% BMI being bang slap in the middle range of "normal" that would require weight of 64.5 kg another 25kg from where I am today - i.e. I am only half way through my weight loss journey and that next half seems impossibly far away especially after a six month stall.

Yesterday I came across this paper

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3953803/

and particularly this table

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3953803/table/tbl2/

Basically this paper appears to show that when adjusted for age and smoking ,the all cause risk of mortality is actually significantly lower with a BMI % 25- 30% compared to the normal BMI range and it is STILL lower up to a BMI of 35%.
it is only when you have got beyond 35% that all cause mortality goes up.

The paper then goes on to suggest that cardiovascular risk as a subset is higher if you are overweight compared to normal. However we now know that cardiovascular risk is intimately connected to high levels of blood glucose, circulating insulin and high triglycerides. I know that all of these are now low in my case.

I currently feel " robust" i.e. not prey to anything much from depression to brittle bones, I just had my carotid arteries checked and they are free from any sign of disease. I did the OGTT and it returned to normal within 2 hours, my fasting insulin is only 8 well below average) my hba1C none diabetic ( just) and my adipose fat levels of 11 are also within the normal range (up to 13)

Overall therefore it would appear that if I continue to follow an LCHF diet, and keep my weight stable where it is, then I now ALREADY pretty much fall into the healthiest possible category . As such my goal should not be to try to aim for that impossible target of 64.5 kg anymore. In fact such a goal may actually be positively detrimental to my health.

Instead I should rejoice in the fact that I am now a robust, curvaceous , healthy woman in the prime of her life who follows a great diet that may well keep me fit and active for the forseeable future. Whilst I would quite like to be a size 14 , in truth I have no real reason to try to be much less than I am. Instead I should just focus on keeping active, enjoying life, sticking to LCHF principles and only if that results in weight gain take actual steps to take it down further. If I can manage a few days VLC or fasting and gradually get rid of the extra 10kg , then great- but it actually doesn't matter much.

To be totally honest, I am having a lot of trouble processing the above. On the one hand my mind says - well NOW you know why the stall - basically your body is happy at this weight - its a healthy weight for you. On the other it keeps saying .... but, but..... but ...... I am currently having trouble finding the specific buts.

Overall I have therefore decided to adjust my ideal goal target . I am trying to get used to the idea that I no longer actually want to be 64 kg. instead my goal should be 78kg only 10kg less than I am. That 10kg if I can do it would probably also get me more comfortably in the non diabetic hba1C range.

I am also trying to get used to the idea that my real reason for that next 10 kilos may actually be largely vanity not health....... This is SO WEIRD ( but rather nice) !

 

[Resurgam]

I have seen numerous remarks about how poor the BMI number is at predicting body conformation.
When I was very active I was considered overweight, from the numbers, but many people who actually looked at me and my 24 inch waist would not believe how mush I weighed - even when I challenged them to pick me up.
If you are happy with how you look and how clothes fit, then I am fairly sure that is going to be fine - I note that so many bits of advice on what is healthy do not do us any favours, both in terms of quality and length of life.

 

[Guzzler]

It is coincidental that you mention vanity. I was asked to lose half a stone from my already healthy weight and I initially took it badly. I determined that I would not lose weight, one reason being that I had been the same weight for decades, give or take three or four pounds. I started LCHF and lost four pounds in the first week which didn't affect my opinion. A month later and I had lost a further stone and I was shocked at my reaction. I was so chuffed. Why? I couldn't work it out until I thought about being very honest with myself, it was pure vanity. I lost a further half stone over the next three months and now I really became concerned, I have since gained two pounds and again, my reaction surprised me, it was disappointment.
At fifty eight years old and pre diagnosis I had never thought about weight loss diets and so had never been on one. This is all brand new to me. Is this a normal reaction? I want to gain back the half stone without raising my bg and I am experimenting with that. I have been told that maintaining weight is harder than losing it.
As for BMI, I have never used that as a guide and cholesterol levels are equally outside of my list of concerns.
My only goal now is to continue to lower my bg without losing weight. Oh, and to stop the emotional responses to weight loss/gain.

 

[CherryAA]

It is coincidental that you mention vanity. I was asked to lose half a stone from my already healthy weight and I initially took it badly. I determined that I would not lose weight, one reason being that I had been the same weight for decades, give or take three or four pounds. I started LCHF and lost four pounds in the first week which didn't affect my opinion. A month later and I had lost a further stone and I was shocked at my reaction. I was so chuffed. Why? I couldn't work it out until I thought about being very honest with myself, it was pure vanity. I lost a further half stone over the next three months and now I really became concerned, I have since gained two pounds and again, my reaction surprised me, it was disappointment.
At fifty eight years old and pre diagnosis I had never thought about weight loss diets and so had never been on one. This is all brand new to me. Is this a normal reaction? I want to gain back the half stone without raising my bg and I am experimenting with that. I have been told that maintaining weight is harder than losing it.
As for BMI, I have never used that as a guide and cholesterol levels are equally outside of my list of concerns.
My only goal now is to continue to lower my bg without losing weight. Oh, and to stop the emotional responses to weight loss/gain.

My own mental confusion on this illustrates to me, just how deeply ingrained messages have become. I keep re-looking at the article - reading my own post above, running my hands over my now quite curvaceous waist then being proud of myself that I have not eaten today yet so maybe this will be one of those fasting days. *** !!!

In the end we have all been fed so many terrible messages over the years, that fixing ourselves is hard. Its pretty clear that the holy grail in all of this is bringing down insulin. Its pretty clear that that can be done via LCHF/ calorie restriction/ fasting which will also bring down, visceral fat, body weight, waist size and BMI.

Once insulin is normalised it seems a lot of the problems go away - yet one isn't actually tested for this !

The attached chart is interesting it shows the fasting insulin levels of the 29 people on the LCHF diet in the Noakes study charted against number of days they have been on the LCF diet


I was the 20 - at 6 months only on the diet. That is now 8 at 12 months on the diet.
At the same time this chart shows what happens to fasting insulin due to years being obese


Looking at the two taken together it again looks like the link is actually the reverse i.e. obesity increases because fasting insulin increases as a result of taking in more carbs than the body can handle - rather than its obesity that cause the rise in fasting insulin,

The vast majority of the participants in the study were STILL OVEREWEGHT OR OBESE and yet now they are nearly all within Normal ranges

( the two charts are the same range - one expressed in US style the other UK (ie 8.3 = 57)

 

[Bluetit1802]

@CherryAA Looking at your charts, you have described your diet as HCLF. Are you sure that is what you mean?????

Looking at the two taken together it again looks like the link is actually the reverse i.e. obesity increases because fasting insulin increases as a result of taking in more carbs than the body can handle - rather than its obesity that cause the rise in fasting insulin,

I have read several articles about this and it seems others think your theory is right
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/08/140825185319.htm
https://www.dietdoctor.com/the-1-cause-of-obesity-insulin

 

[CherryAA]

@CherryAA Looking at your charts, you have described your diet as HCLF. Are you sure that is what you mean?????



I have read several articles about this and it seems others think your theory is right
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/08/140825185319.htm
https://www.dietdoctor.com/the-1-cause-of-obesity-insulin

OOOPS nope LCHF all the way

 

[AM1874]

Hi @CherryAA ..
If you feel good with your weight and BMI as it is .. my advise is enjoy it. Life and happiness and comfort is much more important than chasing a set of arbitrary numbers that somebody, somewhere has come up. FWIW my modus operandi is that I am old enough and ugly enough to know what's right for me .. and the only value that I put on "numbers" is that they keep me aware of important issues and give me guidelines and targets to work towards

Hope this helps

 

[DCUKMod]

@CherryAA - Have you considered deliberately having a period of, say, off the hip, 3 months of deliberately trying to remain stable. Enjoy your food and a relaxed way of living, then revisit your weight and any other goals in the new year?

Sometimes it can be easy to become a bit battle weary of it all; whether it be diabetes, or any other unwelcome passenger along this journey. Maybe just a little respite could help?

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not for a moment suggesting you go onto any sort of carb fuelled eating train, just maybe living as you intend when you have reached your goal, or you adjusted goal.

Goals change all the time. It's a good thing.

 

[VivD]

Thank you for this . I have always been resistant to raising my insulin levels - it just doesn't make sense to have an insulin resistant illness and increase insulin. I am mainly HFLC been type 2 for 15 years diagnosed when I had pancreatitis! Now 72 have had weight problems from Junior school years - went to Doc's age 11! Diet - luckily low carb. Also luckily read slimming magazine as a teenager - my favourite contributor was John Yudkin. Weight has been a roller coaster at 5' 3" just about the lowest weight I have maintained since teens is 9st3lbs but marriage = +7lbs on first week honeymoon! My top weight was over 18st in my 50's. Post pancreatitis I was frightened and lost 4 stone over a couple of years. Maintained 14 to 14st 7lb for some years and in my late 60's got down to 13st 7lb and the plateaued around 13st 10lb to 14st 3lb. Since April got a bit lower 13st 5lb to 13st 10lb using HFLC mainly do have odd cheat days, walk daily - need to increase speed - fast until lunchtime regularily aimm to eat between 11am or later and 7pm. Sin is mainly red wine - which breaks the fast too. It is a very slow process of reversing a lifetime of problems but it is getting easier. Need to get up every hour -that is next target. Mainly reduced slow release insulin to 26 from 32. Have noticed a really good dance works well on reducing blood sugar Still learning. Cut out metformin upset my bowels. Won't take any of the other 'preventative' meds - if I wasn't diabetic I fall within the ok levels! Truly believe that good diet, some fasting, variety of exercise and control of your life and stress (yoga, mindfulness) Be the person you want to be and be aware of your choices and the consequences. Keep learning especially about this and yourself and your body.
Now what do we think about supplements? I waver a lot on this one!
Any movement in the right direction is good Thanks for this thread CherryAA.