Reversal or remission - your thoughts

busydiabeticmum · Jun 2, 2016

Beginning of the year had steriods, blood sugars went to 29 (had gotten rid of diabetes as was gd) hba1c was 85 fbg 15.

Went on the lchf diet... 2 months later (with a month overlap) hba1c 48. Fbg 4.5.

Dr said i will be re tested in 3 months if it is 44 or lower i will be removed from register because of the over lap and seeing that i test loads and brought it all in (all normal except for up to the steriods).

I look at it as intollerance to carbs. My bg levels are in the non diabetic range and can struggle to keep them above 3.1... after eating chocolate and biscuits it rose to 5.7 and stayed there for 2 hours.

Listen to your body.

I have heard an algerian in france found a cure and cured type 1 and type 2 diabetics... it is now being researched further and so waiting with bated breath... i dont think i would ever want to go back to how i used to eat... i feel better... i am losing weight for the 1st time EVER... i have energy.

When they told me to eat more carbs and to see the dietician (because she said less than 50g carbs is not good and i will have no energy (load of rubbish)) told her where to go... i am happy on this diet and i can see it working. So yes there may not be a cure YET but hopefully i can keep myself healthy without complications until there is one... or at least to be around to watch my kids grow! And stay away from meds for as long as poss.

Lizzie2 · Jun 2, 2016

Robbity said:
I've managed to keep my diabetes at low "pre-diabetic" levels for almost two years now mainly by eating a very low LCHF diet. Like @pleinster I too believe that I'm carbohydrate intolerant and have no doubts that if I started eating more carbs again that my glucose levels would go back up. My GP has told me I'm well controlled, and I think that, realistically, that's all I can ever be now.

I've suffered all my life from chronic migraines, which I can control by medication and watching what I eat. I may go for months sometimes without getting one, but I know for certain that if I scoff enough food that triggers them then I'll get one. And I treat my diabetes exactly the same way: it can be controlled by avoiding high carbohydrate foods but it's still lurking there....

I accept that there are some people, like our own Andrew Colvin, who may be able to go back to eating "normal carbs" and their bodies are able behave like non-diabetics' again, but I think in general people who believe they're cured because they've reduced their glucose levels down to normal may well be living in a fools paradise. We need, though, to have confirmation from them that they have maintained these results after going back onto on a higher carb diet long term, not just that they've achieved their levels on a lower carb regime.

Robbity

Totally agree with you Robbity about being carbohydrate intolerant, that's exactly how I feel. I managed to avoid going on the diabetic register - my T2 was steroid induced due to treatment for inflammatory arthritis and I was given three months of diet and exercise to see if I could get rid of the T2.
After a week of wondering what was happening 'inside' I bought an Accuchek Mobile, tested before and two hours after every meal, recorded every single thing I ate, eliminated everything that raised my blood sugar - I totally ignored the 'official' guidance I was given about carbs with every meal etc - in my case as I discovered if I'd followed that advice I'm sure I would still have been T2D.
At the end of the three months I had managed to reduce my HbA1c to lower than it was before I joined a prediabetes study - it was 44 when I started the prediabetic study, 50 when I was thrown off it for being T2 and three months later thanks to Dr Cavan's book, this site and a LCHF diet it was 38.
I'm not bothered whether I'm in remission or have reversed it but I'm absolutely positive that if I go back to my former carb and sugar laden diet then I'll end up with T2 again so I'll be sticking to my new regime.
I would say I'm 'grain' intolerant, I am on a GF diet and I've found that even 'healthy' GF grains raise my blood sugar, so sadly my favourite GF oat bran breakfast muffins are now a distant memory. I eat carbs but they don't come from grains or certain vegetables or too much rice.

DavidGorman · Jun 3, 2016

kokhongw said:
@Hiitsme from the Telegraph report...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/31/low-carb-diet-helps-control-diabetes-new-study-suggests/

Would be great if someone can verify that quote

Hi, I would like to say that I'm probably one of the fifth, but though I wasn't on blood glucose medication, but in December 15' my HbA1c level was 69 and prescribed metformin, I have been diagnosed diabetic 4 years approx, up till Dec 15' I was say in denial and didn't do anything to help myself, I didn't know that I could help myself apart from don't have 'sugar' that was my extent of knowledge on it, and type1 took insulin. I came away with my prescription for metformin and the thoughts of as was told give me upset stomach etc. So this where things changed, I began my research on the Web, found this site/forum, and the 10week LCHF program, I followed it and applied the leanings of LCHF into my lifestyle, I bought a BG monitor and kept the range 4-7 before a meal and below 8.5 two hours after. In February 16 my HbA1c level was 33' the diabetic nurse said I've either been a 'Saint' or the metformin has been doing its job. My reply was this I have NOT took metformin at all, I told her about my Lifestyle change, to which I was took off prescribed metformin on my charts and told carry on as you are, my next results are 28th June, I look forward to seeing how I've done again.

Mimi's · Jun 3, 2016

AndBreathe said:
Well, I've pretty much had 3 monthly HbA1c tests since diagnosis. My first, 4 months post-diagnosis, came back at 37 (5.5%) and moderated down slightly further since. My stats are in my profile.

I'm hoping I can continue to report maintaining my turnaround (whatever you want to call it) for many years to come. I have never taken any medication.

There are several on this forum with similar results, with folks like @andcol showing even better results than me.

Personally, I don't care if we call it cure, reversal, remission or Doris. It's only a name. What I want is to keep my good health and live a fruitful life for a long time to come. I can't see much point is stressing or rowing over a name, it only raises tension, but doesn't influence how our pancreas works or how we approach our diet.

I have been removed from my practise Diabetes Register, but as someone remaining "At Risk", I will continue to have HbA1cs at least annually. I have also had 2 retinopathy screenings since I was removed from the register, so would say my preventive care is continuing. Thanks, good old NHS.

Robbity said:
I've managed to keep my diabetes at low "pre-diabetic" levels for almost two years now mainly by eating a very low LCHF diet. Like @pleinster I too believe that I'm carbohydrate intolerant and have no doubts that if I started eating more carbs again that my glucose levels would go back up. My GP has told me I'm well controlled, and I think that, realistically, that's all I can ever be now.

I've suffered all my life from chronic migraines, which I can control by medication and watching what I eat. I may go for months sometimes without getting one, but I know for certain that if I scoff enough food that triggers them then I'll get one. And I treat my diabetes exactly the same way: it can be controlled by avoiding high carbohydrate foods but it's still lurking there....

I accept that there are some people, like our own Andrew Colvin, who may be able to go back to eating "normal carbs" and their bodies are able behave like non-diabetics' again, but I think in general people who believe they're cured because they've reduced their glucose levels down to normal may well be living in a fools paradise. We need, though, to have confirmation from them that they have maintained these results after going back onto on a higher carb diet long term, not just that they've achieved their levels on a lower carb regime.

Robbity

Hi! I am a newbie...but I too believe it's like some sort of food intolerance, in this case it's carb intolerance. Many people stay off gluten and dairy all their lives and are healthy. In any case even normal people feel sluggish and lack energy when they have whatever carb food they want. So it's like making a right choice for your well being by going low carb and avoiding the sandwiches, pizzas and pastries

littlelin · Jun 5, 2016

pleinster said:
I have managed to get my levels down into the pre-diabetic area purely through low carb dieting and being very strict (ok..not so strict coz croissants are lovely), and my specialist says that I am "effectively in remission"...by which he means keeping things as they are has the same impact as though I were in remission. Of course I am NOT. I have Type 2 diabetes as a result of steroid treatment following a transplant...it having had nothing at all to do with my lifestyle, and I have no doubt at all that should I up my carb intake my blood sugar will go up accordingly. I actually now view the whole thing as a carbohydrate intolerance and expect to have to maintain my approach...otherwise, miraculously, I shall find myself oddly..diabetic again! Anyone who says anything else is either selling something or just plain wrong. It is absolutely manageable, but until lovely advanced aliens get here...it is not curable.

Thanks for this enlightment Pleinster, it explains a lot to me.
having been a coeliac for 35years and having to eat sensibly I was amazed to find myself with Type2 a few years ago
especially as that was all before the onslaught of gluten free goods in the stores; a working mum of 2 and
no money for luxury goods I had no choice but to be good.
Diabetes was just another challenge to life.

Wow! just realised how many steroid jabs I had in 10years of pain before replacement knee and hip and probably why........ Thank youxxx

littlelin · Jun 5, 2016

Hiitsme said:
I wonder how many using this forum would be counted as "in remission" using the quotes from @kokhongw as least 2 of the mods and a lot more I would suspect,

you have a good gp, I have to ask for reviews! and no more than yearly.....
nhs needs improvement in our end of Berkshire..

pleinster · Jun 6, 2016

littlelin said:
Thanks for this enlightment Pleinster, it explains a lot to me.
having been a coeliac for 35years and having to eat sensibly I was amazed to find myself with Type2 a few years ago
especially as that was all before the onslaught of gluten free goods in the stores; a working mum of 2 and
no money for luxury goods I had no choice but to be good.
Diabetes was just another challenge to life.

Wow! just realised how many steroid jabs I had in 10years of pain before replacement knee and hip and probably why........ Thank youxxx

Glad it was useful. Some doctors will say that a particular steroid treatment will not so much have directly caused someone's Type 2 diabetes but rather it will have "triggered" a "predisposition", and the larger professional body gets around it by called it Steroid Induced Diabetes. Fortunately, my renal doctors all said the steroid post-transplant (and I still take though a much reduced dose) "caused" my blood sugar to rise and that prolonged treatment then allowed this to develop into Type 2. I had been warned of this risk in advance as it is common in renal transplant patients on that steroid. My diabetes specialist was very specific, saying "it definitely caused" my diabetes. I have very good doctors, who are also very effective communicators (I am lucky). I had no obvious predisposition - no diabetes in the family (except my brother..from the same steroid after his transplant!), I had no weight issues and my lifestyle was not responsible. I wonder what steroid it was you had, but the advice from doctors I have encountered in Scotland generally is that steroids increase BS and that this can develop into Type 2 if treatment is more than 3 months...as lot of jabs in the past could well be the "trigger". Anyway - bottom line is that success in managing it is all about diet, particularly in those with "steroid induced diabetes"...low carbs, good fluid intake and good recording to establish patterns. Good luck. Paul

seadragon · Jun 6, 2016

I'm pretty sure for me that although i will be able to keep my HBA1c below diabetic or even pre-diabetic levels for many years to come and therefore be 'cured' according to the ADA definitions, that will not be the real case because 'cured', to me implies I could go back to eating anything I wanted to - including high levels of carbs - and it would not adversely affect my blood sugar levels. I know that is not the case.
I may have 'reversed' back from pre-diabetic levels but I am still carb intolerant and presume I always will be.
By dint of ignoring NHS advice I have taken a disease I was told in no uncertain terms was 'progressive and you will need to take medication for life and probably end up on insulin' and stopped it's progress and reversed back to blood sugar levels of a non diabetic. But the underlying problem of carb intolerance for me remains.

dbr10 · Jun 8, 2016

nannoo_bird said:
I have been quite surprised to see many doctors, authors, journalists and others refer to those diabetics who have managed to control their BG levels as having REVERSED their diabetes. Now, I would love to hear from anyone with .more knowledge than me, but I understood that if you were diagnosed with diabetes, that was it for life. You could go into remission, but you could not reverse it. We will always have the ability to send our BGs through the roof if we start eating too many carbs again, unlike a non-diabetic. So we will always be diabetics, but hopefully in permanent remission!

Yes, they are talking complete nonsense. It is controlled, not reversed.

Sent from my LG-D620 using DCUK Forum mobile app

Oldvatr · Jun 8, 2016

dbr10 said:
Yes, they are talking complete nonsense. It is controlled, not reversed.

Sent from my LG-D620 using DCUK Forum mobile app

I look on it this way. I have controlled my bgl so my readings all fall into the pre-diabetes range, so I am no longer placing myself at risk from the complications I was facing this time last year. I have stepped back from the brink so as far as I am concerned I am happy to call it a reversal. But as you point out, it is not a cure. I am aware of the Tarot card called The Fool, which is where i was 6 months ago.
Neither Remission nor Reversal implies CURE in my mind,

dbr10 · Jun 8, 2016

Oldvatr said:
I look on it this way. I have controlled my bgl so my readings all fall into the pre-diabetes range, so I am no longer placing myself at risk from the complications I was facing this time last year. I have stepped back from the brink so as far as I am concerned I am happy to call it a reversal. But as you point out, it is not a cure. I am aware of the Tarot card called The Fool, which is where i was 6 months ago.
Neither Remission nor Reversal implies CURE in my mind,

Quite right

Sent from my LG-D620 using DCUK Forum mobile app

busydiabeticmum · Jun 29, 2016

Lizzie2 said:
Totally agree with you Robbity about being carbohydrate intolerant, that's exactly how I feel. I managed to avoid going on the diabetic register - my T2 was steroid induced due to treatment for inflammatory arthritis and I was given three months of diet and exercise to see if I could get rid of the T2.
After a week of wondering what was happening 'inside' I bought an Accuchek Mobile, tested before and two hours after every meal, recorded every single thing I ate, eliminated everything that raised my blood sugar - I totally ignored the 'official' guidance I was given about carbs with every meal etc - in my case as I discovered if I'd followed that advice I'm sure I would still have been T2D.
At the end of the three months I had managed to reduce my HbA1c to lower than it was before I joined a prediabetes study - it was 44 when I started the prediabetic study, 50 when I was thrown off it for being T2 and three months later thanks to Dr Cavan's book, this site and a LCHF diet it was 38.
I'm not bothered whether I'm in remission or have reversed it but I'm absolutely positive that if I go back to my former carb and sugar laden diet then I'll end up with T2 again so I'll be sticking to my new regime.
I would say I'm 'grain' intolerant, I am on a GF diet and I've found that even 'healthy' GF grains raise my blood sugar, so sadly my favourite GF oat bran breakfast muffins are now a distant memory. I eat carbs but they don't come from grains or certain vegetables or too much rice.

Ditto, i am carb intolerant and tell them "you dont tell some one with celiac disease to eat gluten with every meal as that is stupid! So why tell me to eat carbs with every meal, surely that is the same thing." They agree with me.

You dont need carbs your body can do the same job (better) with protein.

oldnevada · Jul 3, 2016

Interesting development with my BG levels and exercise. I've started cycling again after my last bike accident. But since, I'm have more frequent hypos. I've had 3 hypos in two days! But, my BG readings are always great when I'm cycling. When I cycle I cycle hard for about 45mins. to and hour, 3 times a week. My BG are usually 7.5mmol/L when I get home. My average BG level is 6.5mmol/L. I wonder if the increase in hypos I'm remissioning into a pre-diabetes state? Because if this continues my M.D. will have adjust my Glyburide, I suspect. Cause when I get a hypo, they are very very uncomfortable. They really floor me cause have two in one day is very disconcerting.

JohnEGreen · Jul 3, 2016

I wonder why "Type2 In Remmision " isn't an option on profile page

andcol · Jul 3, 2016

Just read this thread and was surprised by all the negativity in the beginning about "T2 being for life not just Christmas"; well I have to disagree! I cured/reversed/am in remission by following a very low calorie diet and then low carb. Within 3 months from diagnosis I had reduced a very high HbA1c to normal levels and had returned my fasting levels to normal. My HbA1c is now consistently in the low 30s and I eat whatever I like and that includes pizza, chips, liquorice without any ill effects.

So don't accept the NHS progressive stance. It may be true for some but not all. Whatever happens take control as best you can and live life.

NoCrbs4Me · Jul 3, 2016

andcol said:
Just read this thread and was surprised by all the negativity in the beginning about "T2 being for life not just Christmas"; well I have to disagree! I cured/reversed/am in remission by following a very low calorie diet and then low carb. Within 3 months from diagnosis I had reduced a very high HbA1c to normal levels and had returned my fasting levels to normal. My HbA1c is now consistently in the low 30s and I eat whatever I like and that includes pizza, chips, liquorice without any ill effects.

So don't accept the NHS progressive stance. It may be true for some but not all. Whatever happens take control as best you can and live life.

When I do occasionally eat carbs, I get a normal blood glucose response. I choose to not go back to a diet heavy in carbs and processed food for other health reasons. There is certainly more to long term health than normal blood glucose levels.

andcol · Jul 3, 2016

yes I agree with you @NoCrbs4Me. This is a marathon and not a sprint. I was just making the point that the prognosis is not always disastrous.

SunnyExpat · Jul 3, 2016

andcol said:
yes I agree with you @NoCrbs4Me. This is a marathon and not a sprint. I was just making the point that the prognosis is not always disastrous.

Yes, remission, reversed, it is indeed possible.

nemiabonny · Jul 3, 2016

Hi Everybody:

This may help some to understand type 2 diabetes better: https://www.diabeteshealth.com/living-with-type-2-diabetes-under-control-without-meds-for-25-years/

Thanks for your time.

Bonny Damocles

cloudreader72 · Jul 17, 2016

Mokkijo said:
While I like to think that my Pre-D can be cured, I think the best I can hope for is remission. For me, it is just "semantics" when trying to determine the difference. If my diet and lifestyle choices can keep my BS's normal for the foreseeable future, that's good enough for me. If you think you are " cured" try eating a big bowl of pasta w/ ice cream for dessert & test your PP BS.

Well I was T2 no doubt, with 3 medications to treat it and typically BS levels of 280 in the morning, 380 during the day, in short bad, very bad. My endo said it was time to add insuline to the coctail of drugs.
I did the Newcastle diet as if my life depended on it followed by 4 months of low carb dieting (still ongoing)
On 3 occasions I had tried eating lots of carbs and checked blood sugar levels. Basically the highest spike I can get is 170 and after 2 to 3 hours sugar levels are back to 100 (morning levels typically are around 90)
So I dare to say my body´s reactions belong now to the pre-diabetic category?

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