Reversal or remission - your thoughts

JohnEGreen

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But what if I didn't like rice to start with.
 

hankjam

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Perhaps we should keep in mind the real measure of the reversal and remission is really in extending the various complications and endpoints related to diabetes.

I reverse my diabetes not so that I can have my favorite ramen and fried rice regularly, but in order to live a life especially in old age that is not burden with lost memories, limbs, blindness and dialysis.

Agree with this completely.

I find the word "reverse" an odd term. There is no sense of degree. What ever it is it might have backed up a small amount, a fair bit or quite a lot and yet not quite got there...

under control works for me.... at least I hope I am...
 

JohnEGreen

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It's all right I actually do like rice. I was just saying what if.
 

LittleGreyCat

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I started to read through the thread but it kept gaining on me!

As far as I can see, if you are producing insulin normally but are insulin resistant due to visceral fat, then if you get rid of the visceral fat and are no longer insulin resistant then you are back to normal.

Not saying this is common, just that it is possible.
 

KevinPotts

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All my markers are now non-diabetic, A1C, Lipids etc, but I'm still diabetic as it would return very quickly if I returned to old lifestyle habits:)


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Clivethedrive

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All my markers are now non-diabetic, A1C, Lipids etc, but I'm still diabetic as it would return very quickly if I returned to old lifestyle habits:)


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Hi KevinPotts,i entirely agree,i am controlling my t2 ,have lost the necessary weight and i know that if i were to ease up and go back to old eating habits .......


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SunnyExpat

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Hi KevinPotts,i entirely agree,i am controlling my t2 ,have lost the necessary weight and i know that if i were to ease up and go back to old eating habits .......

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It would take a real effort for me to actually eat that much anymore.
I certainly don't like sweet foods now, but I reckon I could eat enough good carbs though, rather than old bad ones. And I wouldn't put the weight back on again.
So I reckon a balanced diet would be acceptable, without any great problem if you had reversed your diabetes.
 

ickihun

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I started to read through the thread but it kept gaining on me!

As far as I can see, if you are producing insulin normally but are insulin resistant due to visceral fat, then if you get rid of the visceral fat and are no longer insulin resistant then you are back to normal.

Not saying this is common, just that it is possible.
For some people. Slim type 2s can be still insulin resistant. (Bariatric surgery survivers can lose all their weight but still be insulin resistant) as of @KevinPotts without surgery.
 
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ickihun

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All my markers are now non-diabetic, A1C, Lipids etc, but I'm still diabetic as it would return very quickly if I returned to old lifestyle habits:)


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Reversal of uncontrolled type 2.
Effects in remission.

I wonder if because fat cells never die that we will always be diabetic.
They only empty.!!!!
As the railways would say "wrong kind of fat cell".
If we didnt make any more wrong kind of fat cells after killing off empty ones we might cure type 2. Well some types.
What do you think?

Maybe in our dna to produce the wrong kind of fat cell from all foods or carbs make the wrong kind of fat cell in everyone?
I think the first.
 
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ickihun

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I am definitely of the thinking that even after huge hard work we are still diabetic but with controlled diabetes, your closer to a cure than another.

What kills the wrong fat cell?
Nothing I know.

Also depends on how many wrong cells had already been produced as to your ability to put type 2 in remission.
I'll have billions. Been type 2 since 6yr old.
 
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busydiabeticmum

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I reversed my Type 2
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It would take a real effort for me to actually eat that much anymore.
I certainly don't like sweet foods now, but I reckon I could eat enough good carbs though, rather than old bad ones. And I wouldn't put the weight back on again.
So I reckon a balanced diet would be acceptable, without any great problem if you had reversed your diabetes.
But that is just it... you are not cured... you just changed the eating habbits to CONTROL. Whether you go back to old eating habbits or not it is still there waiting for you to slip up. I tested my daughter who is on a very "healthy diet" according to nhs. Her bgl are pre diabetic, i have already reduced her carbs and changed the diet and her bgl have improved immediately (she is 12 and NOT on the same diet as me in extremely low carb) it must have taken us years to get to this point... she is how i was at that age and knowing now the symptoms i can see i had them back then and saw it in her. She easily eats more than the 5 a day of fruit and veg but some fruit is bad and just sugar. If she stay on the diet i put her on (changed to berries and lower gi carbs) she will hopefully never develop diabetes... but if not she may well end up like me.

I had hoped i would be cured by now. But have realised this is for life. I have lost 20kg in less than 4 months, 20cm from my waist, my bmi is now no longer obese and only need to lose another few kg to become "normal" my bgl are good and non diabetic... BUT if i slip up it is there eaiting to pounce, if i leave the diet it will return with a vengeance. So not it is NOT reversed, it is not cured, IT IS under control... for now.
 

AndBreathe

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We all have our own views on those emotive words; cured, reversed, and resolved. For me, resolved feels a decent description. "We" discovered how to keep our health in the healthy window, and we understand what could well help us back-track to the less favourable numbers.

I’m a visualiser, so if I apply my rationale to something simple, I’ll go for feet and blisters.

I have small feet. I’m a small person. If I wear size 3 shoes, unless I get lucky, the shoes are a bit wider fit, and my feet stay very cool, I’ll likely develop rubbing, blisters and discomfort. Those could be on my heel or on my little toe perhaps. If I keep wearing those shoes, they may stretch a bit, or I’ll develop blisters on blisters, which could get nasty, in terms of infection or scarring.

If I’m much more sensible and wear size 3.5 shoes, I rarely see blisters, rubbing or discomfort. OK, first time worn, the shoes might be stiff, but both shoes and feet will usually adapt easily.

Isn’t this a variation on what we are doing when we re-calibrate our diets? By modifying, testing and reviewing, it’s a bit akin to having our feet measured.

When we realise a 3.5 is better than a 3, are we curing the blisters, reversing the problem or resolving the root cause of our blisters?

When we talk about “going back to how we were”, surely that’s just the same as being seduced by a very cute pair of shoes in a sale that we’ll never really wear as they hurt us, but we just can’t resist "at that price"?
 

cloudreader72

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I couldn´t agree more, and my case is certainly one of those. I was morbidly obese (now down to obese and loosing weight slowly but steadily following lchf.)

Yesterday I measured my BG before lunch (93) had 50gr of fructose carbs (2 pink lady chopped apples) measured 1 hour later: 104, measured 1 hour afterwards: 94

I used to have 280 in the morning, going up to 380 during the day.

Now, I have been of meds for months, but I am curious about the benefits of metformin, particularly as I am still only half way though my weight loss. Does metformin help to loose weight?

As far as I can see, if you are producing insulin normally but are insulin resistant due to visceral fat, then if you get rid of the visceral fat and are no longer insulin resistant then you are back to normal.

Not saying this is common, just that it is possible.
 
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Brunneria

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Does metformin help to loose weight?

Some people report reduced appetite when on Metformin. But not everyone.

The blood glucose lowering effect (there is some, but not as much as a lot of people think) will reduce the body's need for insulin - which has a knock on effect on appetite because raised insulin and carb cravings make us HUNGRY.

And of course, some people get intestinal upset from Metformin, which makes them reluctant to eat...

There may be other appetite affecting aspects of the drug, but I am not aware of them.

:)
 
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ickihun

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We all have our own views on those emotive words; cured, reversed, and resolved. For me, resolved feels a decent description. "We" discovered how to keep our health in the healthy window, and we understand what could well help us back-track to the less favourable numbers.

I’m a visualiser, so if I apply my rationale to something simple, I’ll go for feet and blisters.

I have small feet. I’m a small person. If I wear size 3 shoes, unless I get lucky, the shoes are a bit wider fit, and my feet stay very cool, I’ll likely develop rubbing, blisters and discomfort. Those could be on my heel or on my little toe perhaps. If I keep wearing those shoes, they may stretch a bit, or I’ll develop blisters on blisters, which could get nasty, in terms of infection or scarring.

If I’m much more sensible and wear size 3.5 shoes, I rarely see blisters, rubbing or discomfort. OK, first time worn, the shoes might be stiff, but both shoes and feet will usually adapt easily.

Isn’t this a variation on what we are doing when we re-calibrate our diets? By modifying, testing and reviewing, it’s a bit akin to having our feet measured.

When we realise a 3.5 is better than a 3, are we curing the blisters, reversing the problem or resolving the root cause of our blisters?

When we talk about “going back to how we were”, surely that’s just the same as being seduced by a very cute pair of shoes in a sale that we’ll never really wear as they hurt us, but we just can’t resist "at that price"?
Some people can only see size 3 shoe or 3.5 gives them different discomfort but everyone tells them if they persevere they will soften but wait and wait in discomfort hoping for a cure. (The shoes to mold to a permanent prosthesis like slippers and with a natural feeling).
There are plenty of drugs to assist the size 3 but 3.5 assistance is the size 3 ones with the hope they help too.
3.5 is only obtained after walking through a maze and all these temptations keep being left out in the deadends. Like any diet determined to fail as human nature is to want what you carnt have.
3.5 only fits the majority and not everyone. Size 4 or size 3.25 gets tried with discomfort too.
One size doesnt fit all. Unfortunately.
 
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Jasperville

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I think that for long-term diabetics, beta cell burnout is a real issue. I was diagnosed 17 years ago. i am reducing my Hba1c nicely with a low carb high fat diet, losing weight, hopefully reducing insulin resistance a bit. However, a meal with 75 grams of carbs still sends me up to 10-14. I think this will still happen, even if I manage to lose all my visceral fat.

So, for me, the mantra, which I tell my wife all the time, is that i am low carb for life. It is control, not reversal. However, i fully accept that people more newly diagnosed may have more preserved beta cell function, and may be able to get away with a higher carb level.
 

AndBreathe

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Some people can only see size 3 shoe or 3.5 gives them different discomfort but everyone tells them if they persevere they will soften but wait and wait in discomfort hoping for a cure. (The shoes to mold to a permanent prosthesis like slippers and with a natural feeling).
There are plenty of drugs to assist the size 3 but 3.5 assistance is the size 3 ones with the hope they help too.
3.5 is only obtained after walking through a maze and all these temptations keep being left out in the deadends. Like any diet determined to fail as human nature is to want what you carnt have.
3.5 only fits the majority and not everyone. Size 4 or size 3.25 gets tried with discomfort too.
One size doesnt fit all. Unfortunately.

I'm pretty certain I didn't say anywhere that one size fits all, or that everyone, using my own visualisation, will find comfy shoes. Clearly congenital issues, issues of gait, accidental damage and a million and one issues come into play. I was aligning to those who say they modified their diet and gt very well, in non-diabetic ranges, but can't think they could maintain their healthy position if they revert to historic behaviour.
 
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busydiabeticmum

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I reversed my Type 2
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We all have our own views on those emotive words; cured, reversed, and resolved. For me, resolved feels a decent description. "We" discovered how to keep our health in the healthy window, and we understand what could well help us back-track to the less favourable numbers.

I’m a visualiser, so if I apply my rationale to something simple, I’ll go for feet and blisters.

I have small feet. I’m a small person. If I wear size 3 shoes, unless I get lucky, the shoes are a bit wider fit, and my feet stay very cool, I’ll likely develop rubbing, blisters and discomfort. Those could be on my heel or on my little toe perhaps. If I keep wearing those shoes, they may stretch a bit, or I’ll develop blisters on blisters, which could get nasty, in terms of infection or scarring.

If I’m much more sensible and wear size 3.5 shoes, I rarely see blisters, rubbing or discomfort. OK, firsmost womans feet mutate to adjust to wearing heals and so will feel comfortable after a while where as if i ate junk food my body would just get worse!
Some people can only see size 3 shoe or 3.5 gives them different discomfort but everyone tells them if they persevere they will soften but wait and wait in discomfort hoping for a cure. (The shoes to mold to a permanent prosthesis like slippers and with a natural feeling).
There are plenty of drugs to assist the size 3 but 3.5 assistance is the size 3 ones with the hope they help too.
3.5 is only obtained after walking through a maze and all these temptations keep being left out in the deadends. Like any diet determined to fail as human nature is to want what you carnt have.
3.5 only fits the majority and not everyone. Size 4 or size 3.25 gets tried with discomfort too.
One size doesnt fit all. Unfortunately.
Lol was about to answer the same... most shops dont supply the half sizes I KNOW. I am a suffer of elephant feet! Small but wide! The size 3 usually arent wide enough so need to go for a size 4 or even 5 to get the width. The size 5s make my feet slip inside if they get wet (wont go into details) and size 4 always end up rubbing the little toe. I know immediately when i put my foot into a shoe if it will hurt my because either i cant get my foot in or PAIN. You dont get that with food (never had a problem shuveling food in) also i can go years without finding shoes and have to wear slippes or boots (in summer) until i find what fits me. Also our feet adjust to bad feet by creating bunyions, thick skin, or if you are a woman who has worn high heels for years knows the shape of your feet changes as well as the calf muscel shortens... this doesnt happen with food.

There is no shop to go for diets to choose from... to try them on. Like @ickihun said above we are told what to do and if it doesnt work immediately we are told to wait suffering. There is no proper open discussion in the gp office on the nhs who give you a choice to try and most give WRONG advice (like forcing everyone to wear clown shoes). We cant try a diet and see an immediate effect as our bodies are still trying to heal from years of the wrong diet. So maybe the wrong metaphor to use.
 
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