Reverse diabetes?!

[tulip87]

I've been diabetic for nearly 1 year now, and take 80mg gliclazide twice a day. Blood sugars normally pretty well controlled - hypos only after swimming training and HbA1c 5.8%.

My diabetes seems to take a really weird form though - my high sugars are BEFORE I eat - once I've eaten I am rapidly down to non-diabetic levels, or lower even.
Typical day goes:
Waking: 9-14mmol
1hr after breakfast: 6-7mmol
Pre-lunch: 7-9mmol
1hr after lunch: 4-6mmol
Pre-dinner: 6-8mmol
1hr after dinner:4-5.5mmol
Bedtime: 5-6mmol

This just seems crazy to me given that I thought diabetes was inability to deal with sugar... I certainly seem to have no problem producing insulin at some times of the day, just it seems to go a bit odd overnight.

I was just wondering if anyone else had numbers like this? And if they knew good ways to deal with them?! I'd love to come off the medication if I can...

Also I was wondering if complications are a consequence of chronic high sugars, or if having sugars over 8mmol for just a few hours a day could cause a problem too? (and therefore if I need to work to get that high morning fasting level down).

Thank you!

 

[hanadr]

Those figures for BG are far from non-diabetic.
Non diabetics have a typical BG around 5, more likely about 4.7. And the "Excursions" are slight and rapidly returns the baseline. Anything above 6 is pretty rare, even if it sometimes does happens.
Average HbA1c is 5.1% for non- diabetic, however, ideal is thought to be about 4.5%
I feel you are not aware of how low non-diabetic levels are.
I suggest you keep a diary for a week or so, so you might find the patterns of your BG linked to food and medication. In addition, it is tought that some Damage is caused by 6.1mmol/l and 7 is definitely in the danger danger zone.

 

[jopar]

I see that you are taking Gliclazide twice daily... which basically increases the insulin that the prancreas produces...

Looking at your results, I think that it would be a worth while eexercise to have a look at what your BG's are doing overnight!

There could be several reasons to what is causing your increased blood surgar over night...

It could be that at some point your levels are going a tad bit low, and causing a liver dumped (but in general this doesn't happen every night of the week) One way of looking to if this is part of the problem, is to eat some protien (no-carb) based food for supper and see if your morning blood glucose improves..

It could be that your medication is losing its effect and running out of steam overnight hence the increase of blood glucose... This one possibility really needs to be disgused with your DSN or doctor, as changing times of your medication might improve things...

The other one is cause by the Dawn Phanomnon (sp) effect, this is to do with hormones, the lowest ebb for hormone production is around 2-3am in the morning, and then they raise for most people this has very little effect on there blood glucose, but for some it can have an major effect rasing the blood glucose level quite a bit...

To check this out, it's easier if you spread it over several days or even weeks to build a picture of what is happening to your blood glucose overnight....

1st night take a BG at 2am, then on another 3am, another 4am etc, don't forget to take some after your bedtime and the 2am one as well... You can if you are game for it, set the alarm for every hour and take one... But I for one don't enjoy a constantly disturb night sleep...

But this will help to build a picture to what is happening, and give a better indicator what to try to reslove it...

As to your daytime readings, there would be one hell of a lot of diabetics who would be well chuffed to have those come up on there meters, and be estatic with an HbA1c of 5.8% hitting the so called 5% club... If you can reslove the night-time part of it, I suspect that you will get into the 4% club...

 

[tulip87]

Dear hanadr,

Thanks for your help. I only meant my 1hr post food readings were "non-diabetic" - with the exception of breakfast 85% are in the 4-5.5 range which I'm pretty sure is good. People I've tested seem to be at the low 5s (4.5-5.5 I'd say, although even up to 7ish about half hour after high carbs). Am aware my fasting ones are well out of what they should be though, even if (as jopar indicates) I have many readings and an HbA1c a lot of diabetics would give an arm and a leg for.

I've been keeping some quite intense records at my consultants request and they are always this pattern - high high am, high pre food, fall as soon as I eat (I often even get reactive lows down to 2.5-3.5 2 hours later or so). Grr. Not sure how to get them to go away. I take my meds at 8am and 11pm.

Thanks for the info on high sugars for a brief period of time - will spur me on to get that morning reading down!

 

[tulip87]

Dear jopar,

Thank you for such a detailed and informative post.

At the request of my consultant I have actually done some night readings.

Very occasionally I go low overnight, but this has never been when I've woken to test it, only when I've woken hypo (I seem to get nightmares! - vivid dream = test BM). This is only about once every few months.

The rest of the time...typical is staying around 5-7 (creeping up) until about 4 am when there is a sharp hike upwards of several mmol. I imagine this fits with DP most? My consultant is wondering if it is linked to cortisol?

I take my medication when I go to sleep, and so I doubt it is running out (in that the same dose in the morning covers about 12 hours - I know this from comparing my daytime sugars now to those I was getting before). But it is something worth thinking about. I wonder if there is some way I can take something that delays most of its effect to the early hours of the morning?!

As for my daytime readings - I'm well aware I should be chuffed with them and I most certainly am Sorry if I sounded like I'm not. I think the success at getting them down (so now the morning, and occasionally pre lunch are my only problem times) has just made me greedy for even more success!!

Also I've been wondering about this for a while - would I really want an HbA1c of 4%? Doesn't into the 4s start indicating regular blood sugars of less than 4 ie hypos?

Thank you!

 

[kegstore]

Also I was wondering if complications are a consequence of chronic high sugars, or if having sugars over 8mmol for just a few hours a day could cause a problem too? (and therefore if I need to work to get that high morning fasting level down).

In all likelihood: yes, probably and yes. But it's not a popular theory to suggest otherwise...

In reality, a normally functioning endocrine system will keep blood sugars within an extremely tight range. Trying to match this autonomic action as a diabetic is very difficult, but that doesn't mean it's pointless to try, it's just a question of how far you're prepared to go! There's definitely evidence of the toxicity of blood sugar levels over 7 mmol/l to the vascular system in general, although short excursions may have reduced significance.

As a T1 I know very little about T2 or the drugs often involved, but I'd say you only have a little tweaking to do! Good luck. :wink:

 

[oojimmyflip]

this over 7 bit is alarming considering that a fasting blood test gave results of 7.5 ten years ago before I knew I had type 2, my GP said it was normal sugars for a man of my size then 6ft 7 and 17 stone in weight and not overweight. this is alarmming.

kegstore I hope that all settles down on the gliclazide it took mine about three months to settle it seemed to be a very slow process, I was experiencing Hypo lows as low as 3.0 almost every day.
i was afraid to eat anything because my sugars would race up high very quickly and take days and days to come down.

hope you start to get a more settled life soon .

Nigel.

 

[cugila]

Hi Nigel.

You need to take a good look around this forum at the information already posted. You should find all the information you need about safe levels, be they HbA1c's or Bg numbers.

You also need to take a good look at the dietary advice which is on here, much is conflicting but if you ask a question or two we can clarify things for you. It sounds from what you say about eating things and Bg levels rising that what you may be eating may not be good for you despite you stating elswhere that it is 'healthy ?'

 

[oojimmyflip]

I dont recall making any comments on what is healthy and what is not regarding food except tom say for the point that Im am not permitted to eat certain high iron content foods because of other medication.

the info on the site has been great Ive been on here nearly four hours today already just reading.

however I shall be taking your earlier advice and getting a second opinion from the hospital diabeties clinic.

regards Nigel.

 

[cugila]

Hi Nigel.

I dont recall making any comments on what is healthy and what is not regarding food except tom say for the point that Im am not permitted to eat certain high iron content foods because of other medication

Yes, you are quite right. We have a few NIgel's on here and I mixed you up with a recent post by one of them. :? Apologies.

However, you have posted on here

I take Gliclazide 80mgs twice a day and my sugars have been between 13 and 17 for the last 3 months. I have lost weight over 5 stone in 2 years down to 17 from 23 stone

Whilst I congratulate you on your weight loss I have to say that with Bg levels that high it is possible that your diet may not be quite right. Particularly where Carb content is concerned ? So the advice to look around at the dietary advice still stands.

 

[oojimmyflip]

although I am happy to accept constructive critism my diest is pretty boring as I hardly ever eat carbs at all, no sweets no puddings no potatoes, no bread, no rice, no, pasta, get the general idea?

regards Nigel.

 

[hanadr]

Hi tulip!
You take gliclazide?
I used to and have been MUCH better without it and cutting my carbs back to VERY low most days. Maybe it's prejudice, but I don't trust that stuff. And I was only on 1/2 an 80mg tab per day.

 

[cugila]

Hi Nigel.

There is no criticism of any sort. Thanks for clearing up what you avoid.

I give well meant advice, it's up to you whether you take it or leave it. I am concerned at your high Bg levels and to what is causing them. Diet could be a cause, medication can also have a drastic effect, things such as steroids ?
If I dont ask you we will not be able to help.

 

[oojimmyflip]

cugila,

fair game matey, no offence intended

er, my B/s are dropping now 11.1 this mornning eyesight is improving so the prescription glasses I recently got might not be needed again for a while.

my other med's contain lactose and I'm wondering if that increases Blood sugars?

excersize is difficult with my conditions, I am really thinking about seriously going onto insulin I dont want any more episides with high B/s it makes me feel awful, I want better control than the gliclazide give me, I explored your suggested drugs and the paramacist says three of them react with my anticoagulants and SR drugs probably wouldnt help esspecially as they contain varying degrees of metformin.

thanks for your advice anyway.

Regards Nigel. :wink:

 

[Dennis]

my other med's contain lactose and I'm wondering if that increases Blood sugars? Regards Nigel.

Hi Nigel,

Yes, lactose is a form of sugar. In fact anything the ends in "ose" is a sugar.

 

[oojimmyflip]

Thanks Dennis,

I think this could be my Blood sugar stability problem with other varying medication throughout each day.

I will bring it up with my GP.

Regards Nigel :wink: