1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2021 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Reversing diabetes with diet

Discussion in 'Low Calorie Diets' started by Tannith, Mar 8, 2018.

  1. Tannith

    Tannith · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    865
    Likes Received:
    340
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Humans aren't usually too keen on having their pancreas removed and put under the microscope. The mice probably aren't either but then the protocols regarding signed consent forms are a bit more relaxed for mice.
     
  2. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,596
    Likes Received:
    3,259
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Good idea, but I have no way of knowing if I have NAFLD or not. So I do not detect this warning at all. Certainly my liver stats from blood tests have not shown anything. I do not have an MRI scanner in the garage.

    Edit to add: I too do not wish to be a party pooper, since I recognise the Newcastle Diet (and the Blood Sugar Diet et al) as being valid for T2D to use to control their bgl. However, there have been several posters on this forum recently reporting that after a short period of remission, following ND or similar, then their bgl started to rise again. So I do not consider that to be a CURE, but is a class of remission. As @Fleegle has been saying, I regard ND et al as another tool in the toolbox that we can use.

    A calorie deficient diet such as ND is not IMO a lifestyle change since it is time limited and could lead to potential health issues if extended in the longer term. However, this is what the DIRECT study is aiming to resolve so we may get ND Mk II hitting the streets soon.

    What ND has done is make a connection between adipose fat and ultra low calorie diet, and also between T2D insulin response changing in direct response to that said diet. This is a useful start in scientific terms and shows unequivocally that ND mimics Bariatric surgery, is cheaper to introduce, is something the average T2D in the surgery can do easily at home, and it can be prescribed by GP. The research is a coat of many tick boxes.

    IMO [ND and such] are proper diets in that they are time limited, Low Carb on the other hand seems to be sustainable in the long term and is a lifestyle change - that is the difference as I see it. Both have their place, and in my view can be combined to good effect, along with intermittent fasting.

    It must also be pointed out here that in the initial ND trials, there was a less than 50% success rate, so the diet is only a success for some, but not all (yet).
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    #42 Oldvatr, Aug 16, 2018 at 1:04 PM
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018
  3. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,596
    Likes Received:
    3,259
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Think of the single use plastic that could be reduced by following your suggestion of shopping and cooking less. It will ease the balance of payments post Brexit too.
     
  4. AloeSvea

    AloeSvea Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,508
    Likes Received:
    1,689
    Trophy Points:
    178
    I love @Oldvatr's "I regard ND et al as another tool in the toolbox that we can use. "

    Absolutely!

    As a multiple experimenter and avid reader of the research, with very very stubborn adipose tissue/insulin receptors/liver cells (my own bias to theories in relation to my own blood test results over time is I do not actually include beta cells), I think it obvious that all methods to getting better with insulin resistant/fatty liver based type two at least, be on the table. And truly terrific that we have this platform to discuss all these tools the way we do in this forum.

    I also loved @NoCrbs4Me's questions -
    "1. Is it really excess calories that causes excess fat in the liver, or is it excess sugar and starch?
    2. Doesn't a starvation diet mess up your metabolism?
    3. Does the Newcastle diet work better than a low carb diet for reversing type 2?"


    My thoughts on Q1. - In terms of treatment - advocacy of longterm "portion control" is just plain cruel! Permanent hunger? Horrible! Marvellous that I don't agree with 'calories in, calories out' theory or that it is excess calories that cause excess fat in the liver. I endure periods of hunger to try and improve my health, but could not imagine it as a permanent state. I am gobsmacked by medical professionals and so on that do advocate permanent calorie restriction (ie not enough energy from food to function well! Especially in the name of keeping saturated fat or meat eating low) (ghastly!) for those of us with T2D. But I realise experience of hunger is very personal and differs enormously between different people with different body types and so on.

    And for me - Q.2 - In all likelihood Very Low Calorie Diets do muck up one's metabolism, especially reading and watching Fung on this. But so does blood glucose dysregulation, especially for those of us who cannot kick it in a clean and short-period way. And the mess up is not permanent, I would venture. And, those like me with 'normal' weight after being on keto/LCHF longterm, longterm no-food fasting could be a big mess up of metabolism also, (certainly on one's ability to function as normally as possible while on a dietary treatment, ) and for some of us our blood glucose dysregulation only responds to 'extreme' treatments. (ie semi starvation of some kind, whether it be no-food fasting, or Very Low Calorie Diets - of whatever kind - for a longish period.)

    My two cents worth of common sense - do the extreme treatment that works best for you personally! Mucks up your life and your body the least with the best results? I have feet in both the Fung and the Taylor camps in this for sure.

    Q.3.- Different tools for different types of bodies, lifestyles, and ways of eating. All in the spirit of N=1, experimentation, discussion of personal results, contributing to the different theories of the cause of T2D. yay for the forum!
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. javfra

    javfra · Newbie

    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    23
    It sound very weel, to reverse the diabetes, but it look likes very dificult. I think, if you have diabete other not, you have to follow good habits of live and food. You sholud eat medieterranean food and olive oil
     
  6. Flora123

    Flora123 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,059
    Likes Received:
    599
    Trophy Points:
    173
    What do you class as Mediterranean food? If you go to the Mediterranean area, the food they eat is quite different from what the UK says it is.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,596
    Likes Received:
    3,259
    Trophy Points:
    198
    I am a moderate carber now, and I follow the Pioppi diet which is a LC variant of the Med diet. It is supported by the leading UK cardiologist Dr Aseem Malhotra and is aimed at reducing heart problems, but actually can be adapted for diabetes. I know that it is not as good as a keto diet for reversing T2D (as is claimed by, say, LCHF), but it seems to be a reasonable maintenance diet for control.
    https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/howto/guide/what-pioppi-diet
     
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook