Reversing diabetes

[Mbaker]

I have just changed my status in my profile on this site. Within the UK there are 2 options a GP or Diabetic Nurse can use for a change of Type 2 Diabetes in a positive direction:

• Diabetes mellitus resolved
• Diabetes mellitus in remission (here's my record from EMIS):

I think Type 2 with 3 HbA1c's in the normal range should have this change in my view. It does not mean cured....but for those like me who have educated themselves in the pros and cons of high glycaemic carbs it is a good as with the LCHF / Keto / IF lifestyle, as I will never swap cauliflower, broccoli etc for rice, potatoes, wheat spaghetti, bread etc. I would have to get a head injury to go back to so called "normal" food. Today my daughter made sticky toffee puddings for the 3 non-diabetics in my household, I was more than happy with roasted mixed nuts, 8 squares of Montzuma 100% chocolate, Greek Yogurt with seeds and 2 massive scopes of crunchy peanut butter. I don't know if it is a mental barrier, but I don't even have Oppo that often now. I actually feel sick at the thought of say a glass of orange or pineapple juice or a sugary doughnut, maybe I am lucky with built in protection mechanisms as I was so close to one foot in the grave.

 

[cristis]

Reversed means maintaining non-diabetic BG levels IMHO.

Complaining that someone only manages to achieve it by eating low carb is as silly as complaining that someone only hasn’t got lung cancer because they have never smoked.

I'm surprised nobody questioned this. In fact, it got 4-5 strong approvals.

Using strong words doesn't make a silly argument valid. You may have now healthy BG levels, but if it still takes a strict diet and/or medication to do so, you're just like someone breathing properly, but only with an oxygen tube. Take the oxygen tube away, or your strict diet away, and if your illness returns, you're far from reversed, or cured.

Comparing cigarettes with rice, bread and pasta is also a huge exageration. Hundreds of millions still eat rice, and remain healthy until they die. Rice may be unhealhy when used with other foods, because of its total cumulated quantity of sugar. When a cigarette is simply poison.

 

[archersuz]

I just want to control mine, I don't see myself ever being cured.

It looks to me that you are doing a very good job of controlling it judging by your results! That gives me hope!

 

[Happyhomelands]

I'm new to the world of diabetes. I bought a glucose meter because I had suspicions about the effects of my weight combined with high blood pressure and stress. With high glucose I've seen a nurse and found my Ac1, is 50. I have left my job and dieted. My glucose is now within normal range. If I have an odd high carb meal my glucose rises to 5.1 ish, so not much of a rise. As my glucose is not spiking I feel that I don't have diabetes. I'm hoping that when I see my gp next week he will agree. I know I need to lose weight and not become so exhausted again.

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

I'm surprised nobody questioned this. In fact, it got 4-5 strong approvals.

Using strong words doesn't make a silly argument valid. You may have now healthy BG levels, but if it still takes a strict diet and/or medication to do so, you're just like someone breathing properly, but only with an oxygen tube. Take the oxygen tube away, or your strict diet away, and if your illness returns, you're far from reversed, or cured.

Comparing cigarettes with rice, bread and pasta is also a huge exageration. Hundreds of millions still eat rice, and remain healthy until they die. Rice may be unhealhy when used with other foods, because of its total cumulated quantity of sugar. When a cigarette is simply poison.

To be fair, most people who smoke don’t get lung cancer.

 

[jadeashton24]

I would have thought that if diabetes has been ‘cured’ then it means you could eat whatever yo want and go about your lifestyle as you wish, such as drinking alcohol without worrying and eating as many carbs as you like without the effect on your blood sugar. ; just as you would have done before diagnosis.

I think of it like this:
if you had a throat infection that was preventing you from your daily lifestyle events such as eating, drinking, talking etc, you are treated for it and then once it is cured, you are no longer suffering with it; therefore in my opinion for diabetes to be ‘cured’ you would go back to the same state before the diagnosis

 

[jadeashton24]

I'm surprised nobody questioned this. In fact, it got 4-5 strong approvals.

Using strong words doesn't make a silly argument valid. You may have now healthy BG levels, but if it still takes a strict diet and/or medication to do so, you're just like someone breathing properly, but only with an oxygen tube. Take the oxygen tube away, or your strict diet away, and if your illness returns, you're far from reversed, or cured.

Comparing cigarettes with rice, bread and pasta is also a huge exageration. Hundreds of millions still eat rice, and remain healthy until they die. Rice may be unhealhy when used with other foods, because of its total cumulated quantity of sugar. When a cigarette is simply poison.

this is what I was trying to say in my comment a few below yours, you put it better though

 

[cristis]

To be fair, most people who smoke don’t get lung cancer.

well, the same way most people who eat sugar (and this is almost everyone on the planet ) don't get diabetes. But I'm not sure if this is what he meant.

to comment quickly on your previous comment on this thread, I think there is a separate definition of this "reversed", from strictly the medical perspective. Hence the confusion for the rest of us. But I think it's wrong for doctors to called us "reversed" (as in "cured"), when we no longer need their assistance, but only as long as we take care of this with an important change in diet.

 

[cristis]

I'm new to the world of diabetes. I bought a glucose meter because I had suspicions about the effects of my weight combined with high blood pressure and stress. With high glucose I've seen a nurse and found my Ac1, is 50. I have left my job and dieted. My glucose is now within normal range. If I have an odd high carb meal my glucose rises to 5.1 ish, so not much of a rise. As my glucose is not spiking I feel that I don't have diabetes. I'm hoping that when I see my gp next week he will agree. I know I need to lose weight and not become so exhausted again.

you may have had some prediabetes symphtoms, but if you can already eat high carbs meals and your BG is normal, I strongly doubt you had or have diabetes. However, occasional high BG puts you at risk and of course it's better if you improve your lifestyle anyway. I myself I've been found just prediabetic, but I considered better to change what I eat and exercise more.

 

[Happyhomelands]

That's a very reassuring comment. I'm really hoping that my lifestyle changes can stop the sugar problems, a wake up call. I did have some other worrying symptoms which have also disappeared.

 

[ickihun]

But the term reversed could imply to people especially to newbies that diabetes can be cured

@Pinkorchid after bariatric surgery they construe reversed type2 or prediabetes as hba1c in none diabetic levels and of course they're on a restricted diet because of the nature of the op. Of course no meds thou in their data for remission.

I hope this helps how the NHS construes remission or a person no longer diabetic.

 

[ickihun]

I think type2 should be renamed diet disease. Only thou when health bodies have the support to cope with its variations.
Those not affected by diet to control their diabetes should be renamed too. (E.g steroid induced, inherited etc.)
Not until then will all diabetics get the correct medical help.

 

[kokhongw]

I note that Diet Doctor says he can reverse diabetes so what does he mean

Reversal simply means that the condition is not getting progressively worse in the way that the world has come to accept.

We don't have to live with the dreaded expectation of diabetic complications and increasing doses and combination of diabetic medication. (Metformin, sulfonylureas, DPP4 inhibitors, SGLT2, GLP1, insulin etc).

But we are still a step away from being cured. It was a cure that has been achieved, I am sure they would not have hesitated to use the word. So the choice of word was delibrate and intentional.

 

[ickihun]

I still feel heavily the liver is the key to a cure, not pancreas for type2.

 

[bulkbiker]

Does anyone really care?
So long as our bloods are in the "normal" range, no symptoms of Type 2 and no condition getting worse who cares if we're "cured' , "reversed", "in remission" or whatever. Can't we just rejoice in being healthy without the constant debates about our state of being?

Edited by Mod at 12:26, to adjust language used.

 

[kokhongw]

Yes. We should all be aware that remission continues to be rare.
http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/ty...-very-rare-in-non-bariatric-surgery-patients/

Remission was defined as follows:

• Partial: 1 year of pre-diabetic hyperglycemia (HbA1C level < 5.7- 6.4%)
• Complete: 1 year of normoglycemia (HbA1C level < 5.7%)
• Prolonged: complete remission for at least 5 years

In this cohort study, the results demonstrated that a partial, complete, and prolonged remission were 2.8 (95% CI 2.6-2.9), 0.24 (95% CI 0.20-0.28), and 0.04 (95% CI 0.01-0.06) cases per 1,000 person-years, respectively. After 7 years of follow up, the results of a partial, complete, and prolonged remission were 1.5 (95% CI 1.4-1.5%), 0.14% (95% CI 0.12-0.16%), and 0.01% (95% CI 0.003-0.02%), respectively. The 7 year cumulative occurrence of remission reduced with longer time from 4.6% (95% CI 4.3-4.9%) for participants who diagnosed with diabetes in the past 2 years to a low of 0.4% (95% CI 0.3- 0.5%)(P 10 years ago.

In other words, 99.99% of us won't experience prolong remission > 5 yrs.

 

[4ratbags]

I will always stick to 'diet controlled' as I know first hand if you go off track how your HbA1c can creep up on you. My mother tells people I'm cured which is actually a bit embarrassing to be honest, what if I slip up in the future

 

[BrianTheElder]

Does anyone really care?
So long as our bloods are in the "normal" range, no symptoms of Type 2 and no condition getting worse who cares if we're "cured' , "reversed", "in remission" or "unf*cked". Can't we just rejoice in being healthy without the constant debates about our state of being?

On the other hand, I am quite interested in existentialism...

 

[britishpub]

Does anyone really care?

It appears some do.

They clearly take themselves and their opinions far too seriously.

I’ve never claimed to be reversed, in remission, cured or anything other than controlled.

However I would never argue with anyone else who might choose to use any of those descriptions for their own circumstances.

You would need to be particularly arrogant and opinionated to think you could.

 

[Incyb]

I immediately started dieting upon diagnosis just over a year ago. Did Newcastle using low carb food. Then started eating more but added IF. Lost 120lbs and all four A1c results were under 38. The last one was 30. HOWEVER I became a bit depressed with the relentless effort of it all and I noticed I could "get away with" some high carbish meals without spiking and so the carbs have been creeping and I started drinking wine again. The result is a 10lb weight gain and fasting bg back in the 6s. I don't think my next A1c will be great. I don't consider myself "cured".