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Reversing diabetes

hmm, I thought discussion forums, especially under Diabetes Discussions, are meant for this: for people to discuss.

If you don't give a dime on what other people say on a subject, and you're obviously not interested in a discussion.

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Maybe you should alter your diabetes status on your profile then because it is showing Type 2 (in remission). Just saying ...
 
Bluetit1802 said:
Maybe you should alter your diabetes status on your profile then because it is showing Type 2 (in remission). Just saying ...
Click to expand...

And, if you click on his username and look at the popup, it says "Diabetes 'Resolved'" Just saying...

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It appears I must be wrong.

Please feel free to pass comment on the current status of other posters, and tell them what description of their diabetes they are allowed to use.
 
britishpub said:
It appears I must be wrong.

Please feel free to pass comment on the current status of other posters, and tell them what description of their diabetes they are allowed to use.
Click to expand...

I think both me and Bluetit nicely made you aware of some simple inconsistencies between what you said and what is actually displayed on your profile.

No harm done. Peace and Love, man...
 
Agreed.
Also who cares whether the ways different people achieve that state are the same or different?
Info re the range of approaches used produces useful for people exploring which of the different routes they might personally choose, but otherwise is totally irrelevant
 
Completely agree and we can only speak from what we have experienced ourselves as 99% of the forum members do I believe.
 

I tried not to go deep on this, but I just became aware so many people, all over the place, use most of these terms in their own way. I've read for the first time about "reversing diabetes" in the context of a Newcastle diet on another site, and by reversing they were actually talking about curing diabetes. I found the same specific usage on other sites. But many other sites use it, it's true, with a different meaning (as in managing diabetes).

Why that's so d**n important to us, especially those more recently diagnosed, it is of course to understand if reading somewhere about "reversing" means curing diabetes or just managing diabetes!

No offence to anymone, but if similar discussions took place here in the past, and some of you are so bored reading again about it, maybe it's nice to turn the page and go read other threads.

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To me, one of the biggest discrepancies was in the 12 month study on the Newcastle Diet where they defined what they meant by 46% of the participants had reversed their diabetes. The definition was an HbA1c under 48 at the 12 month stage with no meds for at least the previous 2 months. I doubt anyone on this forum would reckon their diabetes was reversed with an HbA1c in the 40s.
 

I've actually read at least two articles with people able to eat anything again, with no further complications, after those weeks of starvation. So there are clearly many discrepancies most people new to diabetes are not aware of (me among them). And that's why we're actually on such a forum, I think: to collect more info and become aware of ambiguities.
 
Hi All,

This thread had become quite heated, and I have just deleted a post because of its argumentative nature.
Please can everyone bear the forum rules in mind as they post? This is a support forum for us discuss and explore ideas in a supportive manner.

Anyone who wants to use rude or discriminatory language, or who posts aggressively will find their posts deleted, as per the forum rules.
 
bulkbiker said:
Completely agree and we can only speak from what we have experienced ourselves as 99% of the forum members do I believe.
Click to expand...
Agreed, and that goes to the crux of this argument @bulkbiker. Diabetes is such a heterogeneous disease. How it is expressed in different people will be different because each one of us has a different, unique physiology.

For example, our individual beta cell dysfunction will be different depending on a whole host of factors (length of disease, history of pancreatitis etc), and our level of insulin resistance may very well be expressed at different weights - think of individuals who are TOFI, or those ethnicities where a lower BMI is used to trigger diabetes screening because of their higher risk.

The number of carbs I need to consume to maintain my levels may be very different from the number of carbs another person needs to maintain the same levels. I marvel at those who can aim for 100gm carbs per day - my requirement to stay in goal is 30gm or under.

So, the pathophysiology matters. And we need clear definitions so that our individual risk factors for complications will always be front and center when we are receiving care, so that we don't fall through the cracks.
 
I think the thread rather went a bit off the point I asked how people defined the word reversed and what they felt it meant to them as in cure or not for diabetes and peoples views were different about it and that was interesting
 
I think of reversed as like being in a car.

If the car is in reverse, it is going backwards. However, it is still using the same gear box as it does to go forward. So the car is still capable of moving forwards again (raised blood sugars) if the gears is changed from reverse to forward (upping carb intake)

As regards those who appear to be able to go back to their previous diet after doing the starvation diet, I will wait and see if there blood sugars eventually become high again over time. I suspect that, once there is a flaw (as in insulin resistance or whatever) then that flaw continues and the 'cure' is actually a pause.

I personally am never going back to my old diet, as I dont like the idea of risking finding out that the 'cure' is just a pause, and then doing more harm to my beta cells.

Incidentally, my DN doesnt use the term reversed, or cured. She regards me as still a diabetic, who still has the potential to progress again if things change.
 
When we (Virta Health) talk about reversal, we mean reducing A1c to non-diabetic levels AND removing diabetes meds other than metformin. If you want to read more about why, you can check out this page on Reversing Diabetes and this one explaining our one-year clinical trial results.

And, last, from a post Dr. Phinney wrote on this (Reversing Diabetes):

What does the term “diabetes reversal” mean?
  • We are calling this “reversal” because most* people can maintain blood glucose values below the diabetes range as long as they maintain a ketogenic diet. However in most*cases, if they return to a carbohydrate-rich diet, their diabetes will return. Thus this is a state of reversal, not a cure.
  • We use the term “reversed” if average weekly fasting blood glucose values remain below 126 mg/dl, or if HbA1c remains under 6.5% off all diabetes medications except metformin. We exclude metformin from this medication list because there is no reason to stop it in most people whose diabetes has been reversed. That’s because it has been shown in humans to prevent progression from prediabetes to diabetes, and because it also has been shown in animals to extend life and health.
  • While there are many reports of groups of cases with dramatic improvements in diabetes control with short-to-intermediate-term use of ketogenic diets, there are none that report rigorous follow-up of a successful cohort out to a year. Our Virta Health/Indiana University Health Study will be reporting these results at 1 year, 2 years, and then 5 years.
 
Wow, so I was fat and a diabetic.
So, I say I'm not (too) fat, but I can't say I'm not diabetic.
If I overeat I can get fat again.
Hows that different from
If I overeat I can get diabetic again (probably).

And that stuff about the old diet, of course I'm on my old diet, just about a half to two thirds as much lol.
But now I leave the crusts off the pizza and the pies in the day.
 
I suspect that much of the disagreement about reversed/controlled etc is based on how you view what you eat. if you see a low carb approach as being deprived, an oddity and a constant struggle, you will only see yourself as diet controlled.
I have had many different eating styles over my lifetime. There was the diet I ate from the 1950's to the early "80's, when I learnt that eggs, amongst other staples, were going to give me a heart attack and must be severely restricted. In 2007 I decided to ban all meat from the home and stocked up with "healthy whole grains". Breakfast was a plate of fruit, orange juice and muesli, evening meals were based on starchy carbs. We both put on weight and I think this is when my husband's diabetes got started. Then, nearly five years ago we started LCHF. This is now our "normal" and as it seems to be the most beneficial diet we have eaten and so we have every intention of sticking with it. There is no reason to stop and we feel fantastic. Diabetes has gone away. I am happy to call it reversed as symptoms, signs and issues have all reversed. Why would we deliberately give ourselves diabetes? Did anyone else read the Marika Sboros blog the other day, in which T2 was described as "a condition of choice"? http://foodmed.net/2018/02/noakes-virta-health-study-gold-diabetics-lchf/ Our choice is not to have it.
Sally
 
Good old Lidl provided me with a tasty snack.

A bag of crisps, well, posh 'root vegetable' crisps
It's been a long day, the tachograph pulled me up, so I ate them.
Feet up, in the bunk.
100g of crispy goodness, so yes, like I used to eat, I guess I've now a bad person.
And for the doom and gloomers, apparently that's 51.5g of carbs, and 20.6g of sugar.

I'm apparently 5.7 on the meter after a couple of hours
(I got the need to check of here, haven't done it for a while though)

Looking at he old numbers, that seems good.

But, before I turn in, it'll be a stir fry, and a tin of fish.


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Fantastic! well done! Wish I could polish off a packet of crisps and return a 5.7! 15.7 might be nearer the mark for me
 
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