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Reversing Type 2 with a Vegan diet?

muckinfunkie

Member
Messages
9
Type of diabetes
Type 2
I have a friend who is a vegan and he told me that type 2 can be reversed with a vegan diet......Err i`m not sure on this as i do Ketogenic myself and reversed my type 2 with this method taking in very little carbs 20g and below and for the past 3yrs i`ve been 100% med free (twice daily of 750g Metfomin 80g Glicazide) to which i thank the low carb approach...I`d love to find out if type 2 can be reversed on a Vegan diet (i`ll not be going down this path) as i love meat to much.


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I don't have anything against vegans per say. We all have life choices to make. Nothing will stop me eating gambolling lambs, dexter beef, raised by friends, goat etc. They can eat what they want
I will eat what I want. And what works for me.



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Hi @muckifunkie,

This graphic might be helpful. It compares the result of the vegan intervention (in yellow) with the results from the Virta Health ketogenic study (in green). Found the graphic on the Tim Noakes twitter page.

 
muckinfunkie said:
I`d love to find out if type 2 can be reversed on a Vegan diet (i`ll not be going down this path) as i love meat to much.
Click to expand...

I have my doubts, though I do believe the propaganda that vegans are much less likely to go down the T2 path in the first place. The reason for the lower incidence of T2 in vegans isn't clear, though it may just be that because they are vegan they have to avoid most of the processed food in the supermarkets, which tend to be full of excess carbs (and other rubbish). Is it just the excess sugar in modern processed food that messes us up?

They don't all proselytize, by the way, my son moved from vegetarian to vegan a couple of years ago and has never pushed his eating habits on others.

The trouble is that it's really really hard to work out the benefits and disadvantages of different dietary choices (other than macdonalds is bad ). It's very hard to do double blind trials on people eating low carb or vegan, and though long term studies of different populations are available, it's incredibly easy for researchers to see what they want to see rather than look at the evidence objectively. Yes, it seems likely that going low carb is an effective way to control the metabolic disorder known as T2 diabetes. I certainly recommend it to any new T2s that I meet.

But I feel uncomfortable when people start to regard dietary choices with a religious fervour, whether it's veganism or HFLC or the NHS eatwell plate. There can be good reasons for doing any of them. And I don't think that there is one ideal diet that suits everyone, though as said before, I'm pretty sure that macdonalds is bad...
 
The Mastering Diabetes Program talks about restoring insulin sensitivity by a strict vegan diet. Run by doctors and they have had great success. But it is a low fat, high carb vegan non processed diet. They have a free video and directions for free. They just have a paid join program if you want help and counseling along the way. And I know type 2's that are vegetarians and vegans that are doing fine that do not low carb. This is just an example of one of the vegan diets.

https://www.masteringdiabetes.org/

This does not make a lot of people happy on this site. But I am done arguing on this site anymore, so I won't be back to this thread. So go at it.
 
A vegan diet comprised of what?
  • More grains, sugars and seed oils - unlikely.
  • Less grains, sugars and seed oils - very likely.
'Vegan diet' is a pretty broad umbrella. It may be better than the previous diet or it may be worse. Same goes for any change to one's way of eating.
 
Again, what works for one will not work for another.
I hate it when food/diet choices are rammed in your face all the time
 
Perhaps everyone should just accept the possibility that a diet that is pretty extreme in either direction - vegan HCLF or carni LCHF can work for this? It seems that it’s the grey areas in the middle that are causing these metabolic issues. Find what works for your health and personal ethos.
 
I can imagine situations where vegans might cut down on high carb grains, etc, and go into "starvation ketosis" - a similar situation to that of very low calorie/Newcastle diets with similar results?

(Not that I'm likely to ever give up LCHF and try it...)

Robbity
 
I am sure I saw a thread on here about vegan keto. Vegan doesn't always equal high carb.

I can't find the thread
 
I have to say I’m a bit sceptical about this. As someone who was vegetarian prior to diagnosis (almost vegan as I disliked dairy) and following Deliciously Ella type eating, it was a HUGE shock for both me and my Doc at my DX. With hindsight it was high carb, albeit low GI but MY body obviously didn’t like it. Having reverted to keto and meat based diet with above ground veg, I was in non diabetic numbers well within 3 months. I often wonder if I’d be in this situation had I not gone veggie. I ate much lower carb before that ..... who knows, but every BODY is very different. No one solution for all and the sooner the NHS etc realise this, the better.
 
This is not rocket science. There are 3 macronutrients: fat, carbs, and protein. The whole food, plant based, no oil vegan diet eliminates two of them. What is left? Carbs. I don’t think there is a diabetic on the face of this earth that can heal by eating mostly carbs. The theory is predicated on the idea that sugar doesn’t cause diabetes - fat does. So, if you eliminate fat from all oils and animal products, you can reverse it. I have never known anyone to reverse it this way. BS goes up and doesn’t come down. The other side of the argument, and this was definitely true for me, is that high carb, low fat diets promoted in the 70s and 80s have created the diabetes epidemic that corresponds, sadly, to this misguided advice. Want to learn more? Check out the latest science on this with Dr. Mowll on YouTube. I have had EXCELLENT results with a low carb, high fat diet because the fat keeps me full longer, reduces insulin and blood sugar, and I have lost weight. I will remain a fat burner instead of sugar burner the rest of my life and avoid all those over processed grains that harbor molds and fungus. Grass fed, free range, wild caught animal products and TONS of nonstarchy vegetables! This is how you heal your pancreas and liver and drive diabetes into remission. Throw in some exercise too!


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Going to hopefully put the proverbial cat among the pigeons here.
I can accept the term 'reversal' of type 2 with many types of diet from LCHF to Keto low cal and possibly even Vegan but I think it is very misguided to talk of 'Remission' as opposed to 'Suppression of symptoms' with these life styles. I have been T2 for 12 years and during that time mostly in the pre-diabetic Hb1Ac range and the last two years 'normal' with Hb1Ac of 39 BUT and it is a big but, the moment I give my body a glucose challenge (mince pies omm nom noms) my 2 hr BG still spikes over 11.
I therefore suppress my T2 symptoms but am not in remission. Only by 'Eating to the meter' am I holding off high BG. That is like saying a cancer patient is in remission with out any signs of tumors if they keep taking the chemo!
 
Just two examples: lentils have protein, avocado has fat. Your premise is wrong.
 
I think very few people who follow a vegan diet eliminate all fat and all protein
I am not concerned if people choose a Vegan diet or a Carnivore diet. I am more concerned when people insist that “this has worked for me, therefore it is the only method that can possibly work for everyone else”
Our bodies are different, food cultures vary, personal tastes differ. Perhaps we can be more accepting of these differences. I am pleased if people can improve their condition by whatever method they choose and do not feel threatened if those methods are different to the method I have chosen.
 
I think that the common thread between low carb/carnivore/keto versus vegan/vegetarian when done by the book is a lack of junk processed food and sugars.
Results depend upon what you were eating beforehand and whether you can eat consistently well. If most people are eating a standard diet including processed carbs then switching to a diet high in fibre and low gi carbs could work as well as low carb whereas eating a soy burger in a white bun washed down with lots of fruit juice would't?
Personally I would rather eat meat and fat but if I had philosophical or digestive issues with meat/dairy then I'd make the effort to eat a properly balanced vegan diet.
Finally I wouldn't give a fig for what others thought of my diet!
 
NicoleC1971 said:
I think that the common thread between low carb/carnivore/keto versus vegan/vegetarian when done by the book is a lack of junk processed food and sugars.
!
Click to expand...

Well not necessarily. I had a very healthy low GI vegetarian (almost vegan) diet before diagnosis. I followed Deliciously Ella no junk food or processed good. Everything from scratch etc etc but was diagnosed T2. No sweet tooth and slim. There is obviously no one WOE for everyone but going vegan is not the magic solution vegans preach about.

Ps. Adding going back to LCHF meat and dairy I was Hba1c well within 3 months.
 
I have got that book and you are right! What's left out in terms of dairy is replaced with large quantities of dates and other high GI items in the baking section. I think it is easier to eat LCHF and agree that some have a very low tolerance of any carbs!
 
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