scurvy making a come back

NoCrbs4Me said:

Yes, I see now that the problem was also overcooking their veg. But if you are eating a refined carbs, then yes, you need vitamin C in your diet as well. Otherwise, you don't.

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Thyroid disorder sufferers might. Some diabetics have thyroid problems too, unfortunately.

GrantGam1337 said:

Where did you get this idea from?

There is no mention whatsoever in that article regarding low carb diets causing a lack of Vitamin C...

Like me, you probably choose to avoid fruits which spike your BG too greatly? Instead, you get your quota of Vit C from sources which comply with your strict BG management.

The article is right in addressing the shortfalls many diabetics have with regards to a proper diet. When you cut out on fruit for better BG, the lack of vitamins needs to be found elsewhere. An example for this, chuck the oranges and bring in the broccoli! I guess it's the same as the LCHF approach where carbs are axed and fats are upped.

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Oh, thank you, I was getting worried as I have recently stopped eating oranges for better BG control and I do not like fresh tomatoes-but I eat tons of raw broccoli-I'm safe!

ickihun said:

Lets hope you never wound and need to heal quickly. It might be too late. Take a supplement? Not worth the risk. I've learnt that the hard way.

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I've gotten cuts recently. No problems with healing whatsoever.

1/2 cup of lemon juice has 10 carbs and 93% of the vitamin C recommended daily for an adult.

Just an alternative source of vitamin C.

SWUSA_ said:

1/2 cup of lemon juice has 10 carbs and 93% of the vitamin C recommended daily for an adult.

Just an alternative source of vitamin C.

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That gives me loose tummy. I'm taking an effervescent vit c supplement but still upseting system. Oranges do too. Metformin on hold til much better as dn said metformin causes kidney problem when bowels are loose. I'm sipping vit c drink over a period of the day and seems kinder.

Brunneria said:

So, that report is basically a dig at low carb diets then?

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Maybe, but not quite. I think she was suggesting that even people who eat their fair share of vegetables over cook them. The RDA is about 60 mg of Vitamin C per day and with peppers (one of my favourite top ten vegetables) containing 242 mg per 100 gms, I don't think I need to panic.

I wonder what those people who she suggests are over cooking vegetables actually do to "stew" them.

I think if you follow LCHF properly, then you will naturally tend towards healthier food anyway. Firstly we are advised to dump the junk and processed foods. We are encouraged to eat above ground veg rather than root veg, We will tend to eat more salads and things like coleslaw and tomatoes. I have regularly added avacados and olives. We increase our intake of nuts, and berries

It is just the reduction of fructose containing foods that is a potential problem, but then again I tend to use Ceasar Salads and apple/cheese/mayo salads on the side. I believe some fruit is acceptable with care, but the rule I follow is reduce the tropicals, and avoid fully ripe or over-ripe fruits. Then its simple.

As someone on an iron supplement for anaemia, I am myself adding Vit c supplements anyway, and its no big sweat.

I cannot say about other LC diets, such as Atkins, Paleo etc

Not related to low carb diet or being diabetic the only person I know who managed to get scurvy was an engineering student... He lived off two minute noodles and whiskey, the doctors took ages to work it out!

As for myself I don't really think about my vitamin c in take but I eat heaps of vegetables so hopefully it's all good

RuffsTheShake said:

but I eat heaps of vegetables so hopefully it's all good

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Captain Cook would be proud to have as you as a crew member.

That is not the only article trying to pin scurvy on LCHF ...

https://au.prime7.yahoo.com/n6/news/a/-/national/33354337/poor-diet-blamed-for-scary-scurvy-return/

Tim McMaster an accredited practising dietitian and spokesperson for the Dietitians Association of Australia says while the number of scurvy cases reported is small, it's still "scary".

"The only time it (scurvy) should be common in this day and age is for people who are in hospital for a long time with repeated surgeries, or cancer patients or burns patients, but not in the general population," said Mr McMaster, who also works for Diabetes Victoria.

Interestingly, Mr McMaster says vitamin C deficiency has started to pop up among those following a low carbohydrate diet, mainly because they're cutting back on their fruit intake.

He says it's important for people to remember that when they eat fruit it's not just the carbohydrate and sugar they're consuming, there are other important nutrients - like fibre - that are good for health.

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Some people are trying to link LCHF and scurvy which is annoying to say the least. As quite a dedicated follower of LCHF IMHO I eat a far better diet than the majority of my friends and colleagues.

Noted. However as that Aussie dr linked above people are making that association. Given that LCHF is one of the key principles of good BG control expounded by this site/forum it is important that we strongly refute such an association.

I'm sorry don't mean to be contentious but in the article I read in the bulleted points it specifically mentions LCHF and therefore makes the link between LCHF and low vitamin C.

JohnEGreen said:

I'm sorry don't mean to be contentious but in the article I read in the bulleted points it specifically mentions LCHF and therefore makes the link between LCHF and low vitamin C.

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These ones, I presume?
What is scurvy?

• Scurvy is a disease resulting from a lack of vitamin C
• Patients develop anaemia, debility, exhaustion and swelling in some parts of the body
• People with, or at risk of type 2 diabetes are often recommended a low-carbohydrate high-fat diet (LCHFD)
• These diets often limit the amount of fruit or vitamin C consumed
• The disease is estimated to have killed at least two million sailors between 1500 and 1800

Source: Dr Reeta Achari, Houston Neurology


The thing that comes across strongly in that article is the supposition that vegetables and nuts do not contribute to Vit C intake. The author totally ignores salads, avacadoes and other obvious sources that do not involve overcooking. blanching, and by this shows their obvious bias or ignorance. They associate Vit C exclusively with carbohydrate intake.

The LCHF diet does not limit fruit intake, eating to meter does that. Avoiding Fructose in large quantity also forms part of it in order to reduce IR, which recent research seems to link together.

EDIT to add: An iron deficiency will produce the same symptoms as given by the author, and this is probably more worrying.

Here's the web page they supposedly got the info in the bullet list from:

https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/...ndreds-of-patients-with-vitamin-deficiencies/

I really doubt that this doctor has seen any patients with vitamin deficiencies who were eating a typical paleo diet or a LCHF diet like the one recommended by the Diet Doctor.

NoCrbs4Me said:

https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/...ndreds-of-patients-with-vitamin-deficiencies/

I really doubt that this doctor has seen any patients with vitamin deficiencies who were eating a typical paleo diet or a LCHF diet like the one recommended by the Diet Doctor.

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I suppose that's their idea of low carb/paleo ...

“And when I saw her back to give her the results, I asked her ‘What do you eat?’ and her response was ‘chicken tortilla soup.’ And I said ‘Well, yes, what else do you eat?’ and she said ‘chicken tortilla soup’. So she pretty much ate canned chicken tortilla soup as her meals. Pretty much she had no fresh fruits, no vegetables.”

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Mep said:

I'd say you'd be fine with your vitamin C levels from what you eat and how you cook your vegetables.

I think this is just raising a concern of findings from the clinical researcher and her intentions of seeking funding for a more wide spread study which by the looks is to include non diabetics as well.

I had my vitamin levels checked not long ago and I got told my levels are good. But then I do worry about my levels now as I've had to eliminate a lot of food from my diet. I hardly eat much fruit anymore. I have to be careful with food texture so I tend to over cook vegetables now when I never used to prior to my health issues. I can't just take a multi-vitamin either as I'm not allowed to take any supplement with potassium in it. But I think I may start to take Vitamin C occasionally just to be on the safe side. The last thing I need is another disease.

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I'm same as you for limited foods and I analyse everything for vitamins. One thing I am not low on is vit C. Nor A or E. So I cannot take a multi viramin either, otherwise I would be over loaded.

I have an assortment of smoothies that I make that always come in. about 27g cho and really high in iron, avocados are exceptionally good vitamins and so is the spinach that goes in. I get protein from whey protein added in. Blue berries are good vit c at 9.7 for 100g.

Some days along with my smoothie I may have overcooked broccoli, couple teaspoons of tuna or salmon etc.

Worst days are when I do have butternut squash. I do limit this as it is high carb.. 18.9 for 100g but vit A is really high.. and they warn about having luver cos of vit A too often and bnut squash is pretty similar.. a multi vitamin would definitely be out for me.

I eat a teaplate of mashed veg/food per day and sometimes a smoothie or yogurt n blueberries or yogurt n 100g melon. This for me is a lot of carb but it gives me wuite a lot of good vitamins and minerals naturally and food that my stomach can handle. I used to make soups but cant have onion, garlic or tomato which is the basis of soups really..

I think it is worrying for people that eat junk food or do not eat enough veg wtc and I think generally the population as a whole is lacking, when our natural fruit n veg are proven to have less nutition in them than 100 years ago.

donnellysdogs said:

I think it is worrying for people that eat junk food or do not eat enough veg wtc and I think generally the population as a whole is lacking, when our natural fruit n veg are proven to have less nutition in them than 100 years ago.

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I have bolded a bit as this is very interesting (to me, anyway) do you have any links to where I can find out more about our fruit and veg being less nutritious please?

when places list the nutrients in a fruit, for example, I often wonder what sort of conditions that fruit has grown in, and if that has a bearing on how nourishing it is.