Second part of The Men Who Made Us Fat on tonight

Scardoc said:

Did they say how old the kids they monitored were? I'm currently watching my 14yr old daughter go from a very active, ready to try anything kinda girl, to a can't be bothered, would rather sit on my ipod/phone than go do anything kinda girl. I think there's possibly a crucial stage when kids stop having that need to "play" and can become more lazy. Also, until very recently, they could drop PE earlier in school so there was no one making them do anything.

I don't buy, from what I see, that our kids are as active as 30 years ago. I certainly buy that they eat more, and too much, **** in their diets. Education is the only way forward and that can only start in earnest when our leader's start putting health first, and campaign funders second. That will be the day when someone can win an election without major financial backing. Could be a while then

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No they didn't say the age range but the children they had wired up seemed to be across a good range of ages. They wired them up using devices that measured constantly over the day and did so over a long time. I was surprised myself but it seemed a respectable study done by respectable scientists. The whole point of the study was to identify the primary cause of childhood obesity i.e. "don't do enough exercise" as opposed to "eating loads of rubbish".

The point is the industry refutes all of this is their problem by saying "we aren't giving children rubbish its just they do no exercise". The study showed pretty conclusively the primary cause is "eats too much rubbish"

The reaction of our political masters at the time was totally and utterly predictable. I think the same reaction would have generated no matter what government was in power. The lobbyists have far too much power in this and other countries. What it will take is a state like California in the States going anti fast food in the same way as they were the first to seriously take on the tobacco industry and the oil industry with leaded petrol. It is only a matter of time which makes me feel somewhat optimistic.

Robinredbreast said:

I love cottage pie, casseroles, stews etc. Good wholesome food with vegetables and that aaaaahhhhhh feeling. Wonderful food

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It's the original and best comfort food

Robinredbreast said:

I do a lot of walking and since August last yera cycling, I don't mean marathon bike rides, but up to my dad's house or out with my daughter. Before that, or the changeable weather, I would bus to my dad's and walk back, lots of lovely fresh air and bird and squirrel watching, petting cats and dogs It took 40 t0 45 mins to walk back at a steady pace. When I told someone this last year that I walked back from my dad's, this person thought it was minutes away and was absolutley shocked to find out I WALKED for40 mins, even though it did only feel like 10 mins. I will never forget the look on that persons face, I felt as though I had done something not heard of before lol.

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Yes but I also do a lot of walking roughly 3 to 5 km a day and have done for decades. I have eaten two Big Macs under protest in the last 30 years and prior to diagnosis had eaten a healthy 5 a day "low fat" but high carb diet and got just a couple of stone overweight (never obese) in the last 10 years and still developed T2, as do many people similar to me.

I feel it is unfair to link a lack of exercise to becoming T2 or even obese for the following very admittedly simplified reason.

Let's assume to maintain your weight you need 2000 calories a day. That 2000 calorie a day figure also importantly includes the calories required to do your walk to your dad's. Lets also assume that at the end of the walk you feel a bit peckish and end up eating 2050 calories a day. So each day you marginally exceed you requirement by just 50 calories.

So as T1 you will need to inject insulin to cover that 2050 calorie intake. That little bit extra insulin will aid your body to convert just a little bit easier that excess 50 calories into turning to fat. That extra bit of fat will marginally increase your insulin resistance thus the next day you will need marginally more insulin to cover the 50 calorie excess. Over a period of months and years you will gradually put on a pound here and a pound there without ever truly realising you are being particularly unhealthy. Why would you as you walk 40 minutes to your dad's each day? Does that extra 50 calories a day mean you are lazy?

Now as T2 I automatically produce the insulin I need to "inject" to cover those 2050 calories but biologically it will have the same cause and effect as it would have on you as an insulin using T1.

xyzzy said:

Robinredbreast said:

I do a lot of walking and since August last yera cycling, I don't mean marathon bike rides, but up to my dad's house or out with my daughter. Before that, or the changeable weather, I would bus to my dad's and walk back, lots of lovely fresh air and bird and squirrel watching, petting cats and dogs It took 40 t0 45 mins to walk back at a steady pace. When I told someone this last year that I walked back from my dad's, this person thought it was minutes away and was absolutley shocked to find out I WALKED for40 mins, even though it did only feel like 10 mins. I will never forget the look on that persons face, I felt as though I had done something not heard of before lol.

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Yes but I also do a lot of walking roughly 3 to 5 km a day and have done for decades. I have eaten two Big Macs under protest in the last 30 years and prior to diagnosis had eaten a healthy 5 a day "low fat" but high carb diet and got just a couple of stone overweight (never obese) in the last 10 years and still developed T2, as do many people similar to me.

I feel it is unfair to link a lack of exercise to becoming T2 or even obese for the following very admittedly simplified reason.

Let's assume to maintain your weight you need 2000 calories a day. That 2000 calorie a day figure also importantly includes the calories required to do your walk to your dad's. Lets also assume that at the end of the walk you feel a bit peckish and end up eating 2050 calories a day. So each day you marginally exceed you requirement by just 50 calories.

So as T1 you will need to inject insulin to cover that 2050 calorie intake. That little bit extra insulin will aid your body to convert just a little bit easier that excess 50 calories into turning to fat. That extra bit of fat will marginally increase your insulin resistance thus the next day you will need marginally more insulin to cover the 50 calorie excess. Over a period of months and years you will gradually put on a pound here and a pound there without ever truly realising you are being particularly unhealthy. Why would you as you walk 40 minutes to your dad's each day? Does that extra 50 calories a day mean you are lazy?

Now as T2 I automatically produce the insulin I need to "inject" to cover those 2050 calories but biologically it will have the same cause and effect as it would have on you as an insulin using T1.

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I feel it is unfair to link a lack of exercise to becoming T2 or even obese for the following very admittedly simplified reason.
Why have you written this :shock: I have not mentioned type 2 and I did not state that I walk or cycle to my dads every day. My point of writing the above was too say, that this individual was very shocked to find out that I walked 40 mins, now that shocked me, that is all nothing more nothing less.

I really dont know why you have replied with all this information, it is not type 1 against type 2. Calorie intake, insulin resistance, insulin injections, because it hasn't nothing to do with with my original quote. You have taken it in quite the wrong way and made me look like I am some kind of anti person, which I find very upsetting. Please do not misquote me again, its horrible. You have a right to your views and opinions the same as everyone on here, but please dont assume or dictate, thank you.

Robinredbreast said:

I feel it is unfair to link a lack of exercise to becoming T2 or even obese for the following very admittedly simplified reason.
Why have you written this :shock: I have not mentioned type 2 and I did not state that I walk or cycle to my dads every day. My point of writing the above was too say, that this individual was very shocked to find out that I walked 40 mins, now that shocked me, that is all nothing more nothing less.

I really dont know why you have replied with all this information, it is not type 1 against type 2. Calorie intake, insulin resistance, insulin injections, because it hasn't nothing to do with with my original quote. You have taken it in quite the wrong way and made me look like I am some kind of anti person, which I find very upsetting. Please do not misquote me again, its horrible. You have a right to your views and opinions the same as everyone on here, but please dont assume or dictate, thank you.

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Was just expressing an opinion not having a go at all was just trying to show an analogy of why things aren't as simple as some such as the food industry and politicians make out when it comes to why people end up overweight and why it can be expedient for them to blame one section of society and not address the real reasons by using lack of exercise as an excuse. I don't think the analogy is particularly wrong and putting the biological reasons into the context as I explained just highlights why.

I thought I was actually agreeing with a lot of what you had said. Apologies if you thought otherwise no offence was meant.

xyzzy said:

They did a study that measured the actual activity of children and found them to be no less active than they were 30 years ago. The conclusion is therefore it is not a lack of activity but what the children are eating that is to blame.

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I am not surprised and nor do I disagree with this conclusion. I was interested, however, how they compare the results with 30 years ago, given that presumably there was no such thing as an accelerometer 30 years ago.

swimmer2 said:

xyzzy said:

They did a study that measured the actual activity of children and found them to be no less active than they were 30 years ago. The conclusion is therefore it is not a lack of activity but what the children are eating that is to blame.

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I am not surprised and nor do I disagree with this conclusion. I was interested, however, how they compare the results with 30 years ago, given that presumably there was no such thing as an accelerometer 30 years ago.

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I wondered the same thing Swimmer but the study has it's own website so maybe the answers there ....

http://www.earlybirddiabetes.org/index.php

Scardoc's earlier guess looks to be pretty accurate in than it is post puberty where a lot of the problems begin ....

•Average pre-pubertal child no heavier than 25 years ago The rise in obesity is confined to a small group of children who are behaving differently from the majority who have not changed in a generation
Only at puberty does the whole childhood population get involved.

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Robinredbreast said:

noblehead said:

Robin Redbreast,

They still do Home Economics in school although it's called something else now (which I can't remember). When my kids were doing this subject they would always be making desserts and not much else, when I was doing HE at school it was good old fashioned grub like stews/casseroles and Shepard's/cottage pie's.

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I love cottage pie, casseroles, stews etc. Good wholesome food with vegetables and that aaaaahhhhhh feeling. Wonderful food

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For my family I cook a good old fashioned meal 7 days a week ( and my son has healthy choice cooked meals at school, his choice of fish, veg, salad, yogurt and fruit.) We have a Take away probably less than ten times in a year. My son has a very healthy attitude towards food and will eat/try most things. He really enjoyed the trout that I cooked for him last night! I also dont know how people afford to eat take aways so often. I would rather spend a little extra on healthy fresh food.

Nigel..........those are my hubby's favourites too......mmm

I don't think it's a lack of exercise that is making people (adults and children) overweight. I honestly do believe it's what's in the food people eat and how much of it they're eating. If there are hidden calories in processed foods then it's little wonder that someone may look at the portion on their plate and believe it's not too large without realising it's packed with unnecessary calories. When you eat out the portion served is often large and perhaps with time we have become to accept that this is actually a "normal" size portion.

I cook every meal from scratch and buy very few processed foods, I generally know what is in the food my family are eating. My children take a packed lunch to school (our school's food isn't great), I know they are not eating highly processed convenience foods at school. I also make sure when I dish up meals that the portion size isn't too large - our children have child size portions. We don't snack between meals and on the occasions when we do need to snack it will be on natural unprocessed foods like fruit, vegetables or nuts - no chocolate, crips or biscuits in the house to tempt us. I do bake about once a month, none of this pre-packaged just add milk and an egg rubbish, everything from scratch. We eat out, either a take away or a meal at a restaurant, about once every month or two. None of us are overweight and none of us exercise a lot. We walk the dog and will comfortably do a 1.5 hour gentle walk (I do this several times a week and hubby and the kids will join me at the weekend). I don't feel that's a lot of exercise because it doesn't exhaust me, not like going to the gym and killing ourselves with a 1 hour aerobic exercise several times a week.

I have other family members who do exercise at the gym, eat low fat "healthy" diet foods and will choose a "healthy" breakfast meusli (don't think they've read the label to see how much sugar is in there!) rather than my eggs and toast. They eat out or have take away at least once a week and have fizzy drinks and convenience snack foods in the house (although they swear they don't actually eat them themselves). They are confused why they have a weight problem and complain that it's unfair that I don't go to the gym, don't diet and yet I'm slimmer than they are.

Going to the gym or eating five fruits and vegetables a day will not undo the bad that has been done by regularly eating highly processed convenience foods which contain hidden ingredients. The trouble is that often people don't even realise they're eating these bad foods because they're labelled as "healthy" or "low fat" which means they must be good for you surely.

Rant alert...Another thing I think contributes to people wanting to buy convenience foods is that with both parents working in many families now there is simply not enough time to plan the shopping and make meals from scratch. Put in a full time job, helping kids with homework, going to the gym to do that all important workout - most parents don't feel inspired to come home and cook a healthy meal from scratch. Go back to the 50s, before my time but I reckon most families had one parent at home who had time to plan the shopping and make a good wholesome meal for the family, not pull out a ready meal from the freezer and reheat it. They complain about education standards falling and children struggling to read, blaming parents for not reading to their kids enough at an early age. Can people not see it's because there isn't enough time in the day for the average parent to do all of this anymore. Both parents started to work so that the family could earn more money to be better off, but 50 or 60 years on are we really better off? No, things have simply become more expensive (cost of houses) or marketing makes us want to buy more thus spending that extra money on all these unnecessary gadgets or holidays so now we're worse off, our health and education suffers.

PS. Folks, there IS a healthy option on the menu for us in McDonalds... the Chicken Salad, and if you want to get adventurous, the Chicken and Bacon Salad.

http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/ukhome/produ ... bacon.html

http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/ukhome/produ ... salad.html

Also they've taken to printing the nutrition info on the reverse of the sheets of paper they line the trays with.

Some of them that appear healthy like the various "wraps" are very unhealthy carb wise... and they don't exactly go out of their way to advertise the chicken salads... far too much emphasis is on the various burger options

Just watched it.

Seems as if a lot of research has gone into how to make people fat - that rat study, increasing portion sizes, multibuy, increasing sugar.

Now, to what extent can we trust research, when research costs money which is provided by food industry sponsors?

Also some conclusions are foregone, & a tremendous amount of unprofitable research has to be undertaken before the food industry conclusions can be refuted. I didn't like this comment on one of the DUK "Position Statement" citations (18):

Worth J, Soran H (2007). Is there a role for low carbohydrate diets in the management of type 2 diabetes? Q J Med 100; 659–663
http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/content/100/10/659.full

In summary, low-CHO diets of 6–12 months duration have no adverse effect on CVD risk factors, and show no major adverse effects to preclude their use.

Meaningful weight loss is achieved, but this does not appear to be sustained beyond 6 months. Long-term trials are required to assess their safety, and studies are awaited to define the role of such diets within patients with diabetes. In the study by Samaha et al., 39% had diabetes, and the mean fasting glucose level decreased more in the low-CHO group than in the low-fat group (−9 ± 19% vs. 2 ± 7%, p = 0.02) at 6 months.13 A 16-week pilot diet intervention trial also demonstrated that a low-CHO, ketogenic diet can improve glycaemic control in obese type 2 DM patients (mean BMI 42), such that diabetes medications were discontinued or reduced in 17 of the 21 participants.19

However, to date there has been no randomized controlled trial in type 2 DM patients and health care professionals remain wary of their use, particularly as standard dietary advice from Diabetes UK does not support this approach.

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Hi. Yes, the 'experts' would rather us continue to have the standard Western diet that is proven to cause numerous problems and early death etc than take the 'risk' of low-carbing with unknown consequences. This is scientific nonsense but I guess the 'experts' think the public are stupid enough to go along with it or they are too stupid to spot the illogicality. Meanwhile in the background lurk the financial interests of the food industry.......

The third part is on next week (for some reason it wasn't on this week) so if you have "Skyboxed" the series link may think it has finished and you may have to set it to record the last part. I'm still open mouthed at the breakfast that was shown at the beginning of last weeks programme.

chris lowe said:

I'm still open mouthed at the breakfast that was shown at the beginning of last weeks programme.

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It was a waste of food and even the most hungriest greediest person would struggle to demolish that plate full! :shock:

Reminds me of a lad I worked with in my 20's who was built like brick outhouse, he went to a restaurant where they served a gigantic mixed grill which cost £15 but was free if you cleared the plate, he managed to achieve it and was one of only three who had done it in the 5 years the place had been open.

Re; The huge breakfast show

I resent the implication in that clip that that the sort of meal that obese people were eating as a matter of course.

I dont personally know of any obese people who eat huge quantities of anything. They (we) made poor food choices in what we eat, but didnt stuff ourselves like pigs.

And, as someone who finds a 2 egg omelette a big portion - how on earth do people manage to eat so much anyway without being sick :crazy:

lucylocket61 said:

Re; The huge breakfast show

I resent the implication in that clip that that the sort of meal that obese people were eating as a matter of course.

I dont personally know of any obese people who eat huge quantities of anything. They (we) made poor food choices in what we eat, but didnt stuff ourselves like pigs.

And, as someone who finds a 2 egg omelette a big portion - how on earth do people manage to eat so much anyway without being sick :crazy:

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I t's possibly down to metabolisum lucy, even though I am slim, I could eat for England, but I don't because of the consequences, I am sitting here absolutely starving, as I have been all my adult life. Where I work we have a chinnese/fish and ship shop 3 doors down. On a Friday and Saturday night it is fairly busy and I often see the same faces in there ( also they come into my work shop with their fish and chips) and quite a few are overweight.

A family member of the boss of my work is, well, very obese, young and of Asian origin. I know this person goes to Macdonnalds for food and milkshakes and last week, they left a Red Bull drink and a family pack of Cheddars on the counter, they then picked the items up and left the shop. I see it all the time, is sad and shocking. The 2 family members of the young person only eat healthy foods and they are both in their 60's. Medical complications are just waiting to happen to this person :shock: