Shocked

[OzBlossom]

I've just had a quick look (because I've never heard of HDL/Trig ratio showing IR) and it looks as though the site does an IR calculation on insulin/glucose then a heart health calculation based on cholesterol ratios.

So it doesn't seem to do quite what you seem to suggest, unless I am misreading your post.

If you scroll down a little on that website, you'll see the HDL/Trig calculator, it's just below the Insulin Resistance Calculator but the HDL/Trig ratio is in itself an indicator of insulin resistance - at least that's my understanding of it - but not an expert by any means - am still very new to all this - and aware that there are many more knowledgeable folk in this forum.

 

[Carpetsalesman]

I'm not sure if you are buying this ready-mixed? If so, you could reduce the price by mixing your own. Lots of ideas on the internet.

Very useful. Had never thought of that. Could have it exactly how I want it too.

 

[Alexandra100]

Very useful. Had never thought of that. Could have it exactly how I want it too.

This Forum is swarming with ideas for low carb substitutes and enjoyment. Scroll right down to the Food & Nutrition section.

 

[Carpetsalesman]

Hi Carpetsalesman,

That doesn’t sound good, though I guess at least your BS level hasn’t gone up further? Hopefully over time it will start to come down and it’s just a lag effect, have you lost weight since you changed diet? My thought process is if weight comes off then surely blood sugar levels should logically follow, or is it not as simple as that?

I hear what your saying on weetabix & you may well be right, but for now I’m sticking with the 1, at least until I see evidence my blood glucose level isn’t dropping or it causes a spike after eating it.

My Abbott Libre arrived today, only 2 days after I ordered it, hadn’t expected it so soon, so will get started with it tomorrow.

One thing I am wondering, is it possible some people (especially those who do lots of exercise like you do) are prone to high blood sugar levels, so diet changes will only have a minimal effect? You’re not diabetic, your body has just adapted to high BS to cope with the level of exercise you do?? No idea if that could be possible, but perhaps high BS is just your normal state now??

I've lost about 20lbs, which has put me at BMI 22, body fat 15%. So it was there to lose but I'd rather not lose any more now. I had assumed that everyone with blood glucose / diabetes issues was just a massive fatty who couldn't stop eating chips. I now know this is not the case.

Trying to shift from cardio to weights after having seen the magical effects of lifting on blood glucose. I'm starting to think that I could reintroduce cereal on the days I'm going to exercise directly afterwards. Weights are also good for middle aged men who benefit from the testosterone stimulus.

It's quite a big lifestyle change. Pasta was easy to drop, but I really miss breakfast cereal! I find myself haunting the cereal aisle checking the labels and sighing.

Watch out with alcohol, it's not so much the carbs as the alcohol. Low carb increases your sensitivity while you're drinking and alcohol depresses your liver activity overnight, so you can find that just a few beers has you woozy on the night and then up in the night feeling sweaty and faint and "low".

But, better than having your toes amputated (just about).

I am new to all this so I'm happy to be corrected on anything by the old timers.

 

[DanW13]

Yes found that out last weekend, had a couple of glasses of red wine (only small) and felt smashed, well shocking but yes put it down to the diet.

 

[DanW13]

I've lost about 20lbs, which has put me at BMI 22, body fat 15%. So it was there to lose but I'd rather not lose any more now. I had assumed that everyone with blood glucose / diabetes issues was just a massive fatty who couldn't stop eating chips. I now know this is not the case.

Trying to shift from cardio to weights after having seen the magical effects of lifting on blood glucose. I'm starting to think that I could reintroduce cereal on the days I'm going to exercise directly afterwards. Weights are also good for middle aged men who benefit from the testosterone stimulus.

It's quite a big lifestyle change. Pasta was easy to drop, but I really miss breakfast cereal! I find myself haunting the cereal aisle checking the labels and sighing.

Watch out with alcohol, it's not so much the carbs as the alcohol. Low carb increases your sensitivity while you're drinking and alcohol depresses your liver activity overnight, so you can find that just a few beers has you woozy on the night and then up in the night feeling sweaty and faint and "low".

But, better than having your toes amputated (just about).

I am new to all this so I'm happy to be corrected on anything by the old timers.

Thanks Carpetman for the advice & yes I’m going to do a bit more in terms of strengthening exercises, it’s good for the running & if it helps BG levels all the better.

I read your other thread & if I read it correctly your last Hba1c test was in the normal range, is that correct? If so that’s great news, so at least the hard work hasn’t been for nothing. I really think you’ll be able to keep it there if you keep up the exercise & low fat diet.

I did think on the other thread I read you may be in danger of micro analysing the data too much, some of your posts seemed quite stressed at times over day to day blood changes. Its one of the things I’m worried about myself as it’s a bad habit I have which I don’t want to see raise my own stress levels, hence why I opted for the Libre instead. If you’re cool with it all that’s great but think it would drive me a bit potty all that micro analysis day after day!

I hope you get to introduce a bit of cereal back into your diet if you really miss it & it doesn’t affect your BG level too much.

All the best
Dan

 

[Carpetsalesman]

Thanks Carpetman for the advice & yes I’m going to do a bit more in terms of strengthening exercises, it’s good for the running & if it helps BG levels all the better.

I read your other thread & if I read it correctly your last Hba1c test was in the normal range, is that correct? If so that’s great news, so at least the hard work hasn’t been for nothing. I really think you’ll be able to keep it there if you keep up the exercise & low fat diet.

I did think on the other thread I read you may be in danger of micro analysing the data too much, some of your posts seemed quite stressed at times over day to day blood changes. Its one of the things I’m worried about myself as it’s a bad habit I have which I don’t want to see raise my own stress levels, hence why I opted for the Libre instead. If you’re cool with it all that’s great but think it would drive me a bit potty all that micro analysis day after day!

I hope you get to introduce a bit of cereal back into your diet if you really miss it & it doesn’t affect your BG level too much.

All the best
Dan

Yes, very insightful comments. I was definitely worried and a probably a bit obsessive in the early weeks. I get a feeling of control from being on top of all the numbers. Measuring keeps me on the straight and narrow. Without having to face the fingerprick test, I could easily eat an entire packet of chocolate digestives in one sitting, or three helping of carbonara, or a multipack of crisps or a tub of ben&jerrys, etc., you get the idea.

I did score a normal HbA1C at the beginning, but I carry a genetic blood disorder which renders HbA1C unreliable.

Ultimately, I've concluded I'm a "pre", hence this is why I'm on this forum. FBG long term average is currently 6.0 on low carb, and excessive carbs make me ill. I've seen the warning signs and it's up to me to implement the long term lifestyle changes and fend this thing off for hopefully decades to come.

It's a different flavour being an active, not overweight "pre", because it can feel like there's nowhere to go. At least the big guys have loads of scope for improvement. On the upside, you're running 30km a week already, you already know you can do the lifestyle it's probably more about tweaking diet and activity rather than upending your whole way of living.

Very interested to hear how you get on with the libre particularly how it behaves overnight and whether you get the dreaded liver dump.

 

[DanW13]

Yes, very insightful comments. I was definitely worried and a probably a bit obsessive in the early weeks. I get a feeling of control from being on top of all the numbers. Measuring keeps me on the straight and narrow. Without having to face the fingerprick test, I could easily eat an entire packet of chocolate digestives in one sitting, or three helping of carbonara, or a multipack of crisps or a tub of ben&jerrys, etc., you get the idea.

I did score a normal HbA1C at the beginning, but I carry a genetic blood disorder which renders HbA1C unreliable.

Ultimately, I've concluded I'm a "pre", hence this is why I'm on this forum. FBG long term average is currently 6.0 on low carb, and excessive carbs make me ill. I've seen the warning signs and it's up to me to implement the long term lifestyle changes and fend this thing off for hopefully decades to come.

It's a different flavour being an active, not overweight "pre", because it can feel like there's nowhere to go. At least the big guys have loads of scope for improvement. On the upside, you're running 30km a week already, you already know you can do the lifestyle it's probably more about tweaking diet and activity rather than upending your whole way of living.

Very interested to hear how you get on with the libre particularly how it behaves overnight and whether you get the dreaded liver dump.

Well I started on the Libre yesterday evening & so far it’s been remarkably unremarkable! Early days obviously but so far little showing up of concern, started the day at 4.3, rose up to 6.2 after breakfast but within an hour was back down to 4.2.

Slight climb this morning but nothing material, basically been tracking between 4.5 - 5.5 all day, small couple of short term deviations either side of this but that’s about it!

Still feel generally a bit weak & lacking in energy, especially this afternoon, though was okay this morning at the gym & hunger pains definitely reduced. Also the tummy has definitely shrunk considerably - confirmed by wife this morning, so I’ve definitely shed some bad fat.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

If you scroll down a little on that website, you'll see the HDL/Trig calculator, it's just below the Insulin Resistance Calculator but the HDL/Trig ratio is in itself an indicator of insulin resistance - at least that's my understanding of it - but not an expert by any means - am still very new to all this - and aware that there are many more knowledgeable folk in this forum.

Hmmm......

https://www.escardio.org/Journals/E...io-as-surrogate-marker-for-insulin-resistance

Hadn't come across this before.

"Triglyceride (TG) to high-density lipoprotein (HDL) ratio values >2.75 in men and >1.65 in women were found in the Metabolic Syndrome in Active Subjects (MESYAS) study -18,778 active workers enrolled in 3 insurance companies in Spain- to be highly predictive of the metabolic syndrome (MS) diagnosis. TG/HDL ratio was also found to have a high predictive value of a first coronary event regardless of body mass index (BMI)."

Last results (last year):

Tgl 1.18 mmol/L
HDL 1.96 mmol/L

I would like to see an online calculator for this which directly relates the ratio to incidence of IR.

I'm not 100% sure quite how the ratio is calculated but with my two numbers it looks hard to get a ratio of >2.75 whichever you divide by whatever.
The site linked to earlier
https://www.thebloodcode.com/calculators/
gives me a ratio of 1.4 after converting units.

Slightly confused by the conversion from mmol/L to mg/dL because it is a different factor for the two readings.
I assume that this has something to do with different molecular weights when you are converting from volume to weight?

As far as I can see there are two discreet calculations on the "bloodcode" site; one for IR and the other for heart disease risk.

Although there is some suggestion from other research (as in the top link) that a high ratio of trigs to HDL might be associated with Metabolic Syndrome, there is no apparent information on people with IR and a low ratio (which I think applies to me). I suppose I may fall into the marginal area beyond "high correlation".
I would be surprised if I have no IR, especially after that private test I had a couple of years back.

I do note the article talks about high insulin and high glucose circulating in the blood.
My test showed low normal insulin but slightly elevated BG, which implies that the insulin is not fully effective, but does not match the usual "high everything".

One positive thing to take away is that my ratios don't indicate a high risk of a cardio event.

 

[Carpetsalesman]

Well I started on the Libre yesterday evening & so far it’s been remarkably unremarkable! Early days obviously but so far little showing up of concern, started the day at 4.3, rose up to 6.2 after breakfast but within an hour was back down to 4.2.

Slight climb this morning but nothing material, basically been tracking between 4.5 - 5.5 all day, small couple of short term deviations either side of this but that’s about it!

Still feel generally a bit weak & lacking in energy, especially this afternoon, though was okay this morning at the gym & hunger pains definitely reduced. Also the tummy has definitely shrunk considerably - confirmed by wife this morning, so I’ve definitely shed some bad fat.

Very envious of those scores. So far it sounds like you're going to be fine and you just need to take the lesson on excess carbs. No dawn effect - whereas I've only managed to start the day below 5.0 on two mornings out of 150 attempts!

Keep us posted.

 

[DanW13]

Very envious of those scores. So far it sounds like you're going to be fine and you just need to take the lesson on excess carbs. No dawn effect - whereas I've only managed to start the day below 5.0 on two mornings out of 150 attempts!

Keep us posted.

Yes I’ve just done a quick conversion of my average blood sugar recorded by the Libre into an Hba1c score and it’s coming out at 27 - surely not!! But so far high blood sugar spikes haven’t been a problem, the highest was today when I risked a 2nd weetabix & it spiked up to 8.6, but quickly came back down again into the low 5s, so nothing too serious.

My biggest issue so far - low blood sugar. More red alerts from my Libre last night when my blood sugar dipped below 4 for long periods. The root cause I think was the high amount of exercise I did yesterday - ran 7.5k am, walked 5k pm. Blood sugar slump left me feeling awful first thing - lightheaded brain fog. So clearly haven’t got the balance right yet, perhaps I need to add a banana or another healthier carb on high exercise days as don’t want a repeat of 1st thing this morning again. Any thoughts from the experts here?

Since then ranged around 5 all day, just risked half a banana!

One other thing, I had a mouthful of my favourite dessert (jam sponge & custard) yesterday, just the one, but it tasted terrible, way too sweet like eating raw sugar! Found similar thing with the banana I just ate, could really taste the sugar which made the whole thing pretty unpleasant. Guess my taste buds have adapted & gone anti sugar!

 

[DanW13]

Hi All,

So I’m nearly a week in now since I started using the Libre, all going okay so far and really pleased with how the blood sugar levels are looking overall. My current average over the week is 4.9, which apparently according to the Hba1c estimate would put me on a reading of 28!!! Would’ve been good to see how it would’ve looked on my old diet for comparison purposes, I did add a whole banana one day when I also did a long run, the average went up to 5.3 that day, so doesn’t take a lot of extra carbs to start to push things higher.

So far, no spikes above the normal/green zone on the monitor, and bs levels return to normal well within 2 hours of eating, so all looks good.

One question I have though is how big a spike after eating is too big a spike? So far the biggest one I’ve had was after eating 2 weetabix one day, which saw it briefly hit 9.1 before returning to normal levels. Is it okay providing the spike is within the normal zone, or does it actually not matter at all providing the levels return to roughly what they were within 2 hours?

I’m trying to plan my diet going forwards & trying to get a view on what is /isn’t acceptable, if that makes sense?

Thanks
Dan

 

[Carpetsalesman]

Hello mate, I am green with envy at your scores. While you're still Libre-ing, are you considering seeing what your old diet does on the libre? Would give you a benchmark.

On your question, I'm not qualified to say but what I've read here is that nobody takes much notice until the 2 hour point. But as a comparative datapoint I can tell you that I had about 50g of carbs yesterday for lunch - lentil soup and a slice of toast, and was up at 10.1 three hours later. Got back to 5.2 six hours later. And I have a1c of 37 and passed the oral glucose test perfectly. I've seen 9s that dropped quickly but it depends on the food type, time of day, activity level, etc.

But it looks like you're doing well, or maybe you're immune to weetabix and haven't found your kryptonite yet...

I'm thinking about trying IF to see what that does as an experiment. Fung is very convincing and what the heck why not give it a go.

 

[bulkbiker]

If you scroll down a little on that website, you'll see the HDL/Trig calculator, it's just below the Insulin Resistance Calculator but the HDL/Trig ratio is in itself an indicator of insulin resistance - at least that's my understanding of it - but not an expert by any means - am still very new to all this - and aware that there are many more knowledgeable folk in this forum.

Other way around.. it's Trig/HDL
And you ideally want it to be below 0.87 if measurements are in mmol/l

But you also need to have accurate trig numbers which involves a fasting lipid panel of 12-14 hours pre blood draw ...
water only fasted.

 

[DanW13]

Hello mate, I am green with envy at your scores. While you're still Libre-ing, are you considering seeing what your old diet does on the libre? Would give you a benchmark.

On your question, I'm not qualified to say but what I've read here is that nobody takes much notice until the 2 hour point. But as a comparative datapoint I can tell you that I had about 50g of carbs yesterday for lunch - lentil soup and a slice of toast, and was up at 10.1 three hours later. Got back to 5.2 six hours later. And I have a1c of 37 and passed the oral glucose test perfectly. I've seen 9s that dropped quickly but it depends on the food type, time of day, activity level, etc.

But it looks like you're doing well, or maybe you're immune to weetabix and haven't found your kryptonite yet...

I'm thinking about trying IF to see what that does as an experiment. Fung is very convincing and what the heck why not give it a go.

Hi Carpetsalesman,

Yes I’m pretty amazed at how good the scores have been so far & not quite sure what to make of it versus my original prediabetic reading of 43. Could my test have been just a spike or perhaps elevated by stress? One thing I did find this week was when I was stressed on Wednesday my readings were higher, not massively so but noticeably higher nonetheless, so stress clearly has an impact.

I’ve got another official Hba1c test at end of October so won’t do anything too fancy in terms of checking v danger foods until after that. I’ve a 2nd Libre sensor that I’ll probably attach after that test & depending on the results may play around with a few foods during those 14 days to see the impact they have.

I will need to up my calorie intake a bit to stop losing weight as I’m almost at my target weight now, but want to do it in a way that doesn’t lead to excessive bs spikes. Bit worried the bigger the spike the greater pressure it puts on your insulin sensitivity, isn’t that in essence how we became prediabetic in the first place?? So the lower the spikes the better??

all the best
Dan