Should I ditch my metformin tonight?

[briped]

May I ask how long it took you to get down to 20g carbs per day?

It's difficult to give any precise numbers as I didn't actually count carbs till May 2nd, when I decided to give very low-carb a go, but on March 23rd I started by doing away with the obvious starchy culprits. Gradually I worked my way towards sticking to only above ground veggies, all the while seeing my BG dropping to perfectly acceptable levels (estimated A1C 5.8 over the two weeks from April 7th to April 20th, for example, and the week after 5,5%). I was still eating carrots, till I dropped those too, though. Eventually I omitted my 30g of bread pr. day, but still ate copious amounts of veggies with each meal, so difficult to say how many carbs, but it must have been a fairly sensible amount.

I felt fine on this diet, but I can be impatient and prone to overdo things, I'll admit. The threat of insulin really hit home, and I kept reading about how wonderful a keto diet is and I have a friend who had great success with it, so I decided to challenge myself. After 3 days of trying it I'm not so sure it's the right way to go for me. I'm really not good at calculating nutrients, only the carbs. The question is, do I even have the patience for it? My ambition is to gain good BG control with as little medicine as possible, and to lose weight. The two are twins.

I ask this because I made the mistake of going too low too quickly and got 'Carb Flu' and I almost gave up the whole idea of Low carbing. Carb flu made me feel as though life just wasn't worth living if that was how healthy living was supposed to make you feel. Other mistakes I made were the thought that my fat intake was high enough (it wasn't ) and failing to hydrate enough.

I don't know ... Maybe I have gone too low too quickly? What do you think? I have a slight headache and am generally speaking way too hungry all the time, and wake up at sh.. o'clock in the morning. Today 4:45am So small wonder if I also feel tired. I know I'm likely to eat too little fat, and I haven't got into fat bombs and the like just yet. I'm willing to give it a try, of course, but it does sound a little gross too. As for fluids, oh I do love my 4 mugs of chai (homemade with plenty of cardamom and other spices) with stevia and whipping cream, but I don't love cold plain water as much as I did when my BG was raging. Yesteday I managed 1L.

As to changes in dosages of medication, this must always be done with extreme care and detailed testing and recordings so as to avoid going into hypo territory.

Agree, and that goes for drastic diet changes too. I'm good at testing pre- and post prandial BGs. Hey, last night after my 3.8% reading I had 5 x chicken drumsticks and 3 sticks of green asparagus, my post prandial reading was 5.4. That surprised me. I only had 1,1 carb for supper, and 5.4! Anyway, that was a relief

 

[Guzzler]

It's difficult to give any precise numbers as I didn't actually count carbs till May 2nd, when I decided to give very low-carb a go, but on March 23rd I started by doing away with the obvious starchy culprits. Gradually I worked my way towards sticking to only above ground veggies, all the while seeing my BG dropping to perfectly acceptable levels (estimated A1C 5.8 over the two weeks from April 7th to April 20th, for example, and the week after 5,5%). I was still eating carrots, till I dropped those too, though. Eventually I omitted my 30g of bread pr. day, but still ate copious amounts of veggies with each meal, so difficult to say how many carbs, but it must have been a fairly sensible amount.

I felt fine on this diet, but I can be impatient and prone to overdo things, I'll admit. The threat of insulin really hit home, and I kept reading about how wonderful a keto diet is and I have a friend who had great success with it, so I decided to challenge myself. After 3 days of trying it I'm not so sure it's the right way to go for me. I'm really not good at calculating nutrients, only the carbs. The question is, do I even have the patience for it? My ambition is to gain good BG control with as little medicine as possible, and to lose weight. The two are twins.



I don't know ... Maybe I have gone too low too quickly? What do you think? I have a slight headache and am generally speaking way too hungry all the time, and wake up at sh.. o'clock in the morning. Today 4:45am So small wonder if I also feel tired. I know I'm likely to eat too little fat, and I haven't got into fat bombs and the like just yet. I'm willing to give it a try, of course, but it does sound a little gross too. As for fluids, oh I do love my 4 mugs of chai (homemade with plenty of cardamom and other spices) with stevia and whipping cream, but I don't love cold plain water as much as I did when my BG was raging. Yesteday I managed 1L.



Agree, and that goes for drastic diet changes too. I'm good at testing pre- and post prandial BGs. Hey, last night after my 3.8% reading I had 5 x chicken drumsticks and 3 sticks of green asparagus, my post prandial reading was 5.4. That surprised me. I only had 1,1 carb for supper, and 5.4! Anyway, that was a relief

Great work! Sounds like you got things covered. As you know, carbs are addictive so you may be feeling withdrawal symptoms. This is not an exaggeration, it can take a little while for your body to stop complaining about the lack of cake/bickys/crisps etc but with each passing day it gets easier and easier. I had a few wobbles in the first few weeks (crisp butties are my enemy)but I am comfortable with this way of life now.
A little extra fat and a little extra protein do satisfy you for much longer than carbs, it is just that your body needs time to adjust.
I too only count carbs, not calories or GI/GL. I prefer to keep it simple 'cos I don't want meal times to turn into some kind of science experiment. Keep it up, you'll get there and again, well done.

 

[briped]

Don't forget Metformin doesn't work the same way as the other two and as it's effect is accumulative so not taking one tablet isn't going to make any difference at all.
Metformin lowers the amount of sugar produced in the liver, and also increases the sensitivity of muscle cells to insulin.
Jardiance helps the kidneys remove glucose from the bloodstream through the urine.
Victoza is taken by injection, similar to insulin, but they're not insulin. These medications are in a class of drugs called incretin mimetics, which improve blood sugar control by mimicking the action of a hormone called glucagon-like peptide 1 (GLP-1).

I can't believe my luck when I stumbled on this great board. Thanks so much for the heads up on how my 3 drugs work!

Also, perhaps less than 20gms carb a day is too low to aim for. I just gave up bread/pasta/rice/potato to get down to 40gms a day and I eat a lot of vegetables (only the ones that grow above ground, so less carbs).

I'm inclined to think you could well be right, but will give it a little longer. After all today is only the beginning of day 4, and ... Well it's not a must for me to be below the infamous 20g. Eating low carb a little less rigourously will work too. I'd just really love to get rid of the Jardiance and the Victoza one day, but will probably have to curb my impatience

 

[briped]

Great work! Sounds like you got things covered. As you know, carbs are addictive so you may be feeling withdrawal symptoms. This is not an exaggeration, it can take a little while for your body to stop complaining about the lack of cake/bickys/crisps etc but with each passing day it gets easier and easier. I had a few wobbles in the first few weeks (crisp butties are my enemy)but I am comfortable with this way of life now.

I'm so lucky I don't get those cravings. I tend to become so focused that all those no-no foods turn into inedibles like the lamp shade I see in my windowsill. While typing this I'm also making a white bread for my husband, and not even the smell of it when I take it out of the oven will tempt me. I'll just let it cool and slice it up for the freezer so it won't go stale before he's finished it.
No, I don't have a particularly strong character. I can just be very stubborn when it takes me.

I too only count carbs, not calories or GI/GL. I prefer to keep it simple 'cos I don't want meal times to turn into some kind of science experiment. Keep it up, you'll get there and again, well done.

My feelings exactly!! Science experiment

 

[first14808]

I felt fine on this diet, but I can be impatient and prone to overdo things, I'll admit. The threat of insulin really hit home, and I kept reading about how wonderful a keto diet is and I have a friend who had great success with it, so I decided to challenge myself. After 3 days of trying it I'm not so sure it's the right way to go for me. I'm really not good at calculating nutrients, only the carbs. The question is, do I even have the patience for it? My ambition is to gain good BG control with as little medicine as possible, and to lose weight. The two are twins.

I don't know ... Maybe I have gone too low too quickly? What do you think?

Quite probably, and you sound a lot like me

When I got diagnosed, I hit Google to gen up on the subject and soon found this place. Then digging into the role of carbs in our metabolism, LCHF made a lot of sense and I dived in. Result was around 10kg of weight lost, and my next HbA1c result looking a lot better. But we're all different, and finding an 'L' value that works takes some experimentation. For going keto, that's generally <20g carbs, and it's harder. So it takes maybe a week to get into ketosis, and if you're not careful with carb counting, it's easy to drop out again. And you won't be able to gauge it unless you've got a meter that tests for ketones, or urine test strips.

Good luck though, and the main challenge is finding keto-friendly ingredients and meals that you enjoy. If you balance meat & veg though, it's easier to get the nutrients than it is on a vegan diet.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

I'd just really love to get rid of the Jardiance and the Victoza one day, but will probably have to curb my impatience

You probably already know that diabetes is a very strange disease in that it isn't straight forward and we can all experience different reactions. Cutting carbs is one aspect that some people choose to do, although not all, and even among those that do there will be different reactions to different foods. You'll hear "eat to your meter" a lot and you'll be finding out over the next few weeks what's best for you. If cutting carbs is what you want to do and maybe finding a little difficult at first, take it slow, there's no rush. As you say "curb your impatience", setting difficult goals can lead to failure and disappointment. You'll get there. All the best.

 

[Mbaker]

Won't it make more sense to remove first what was added last? Actually, I already reduced the Jardiance from 2 x 10mg to just 10mg without consulting anybody about a week ago, naughty girl, but I better let the endo people know what's going on on Monday.
Anyway, I'm finding it increasingly difficult to stick to less than 20g of carbs per day, and this is only the beginning of day 4! I must be doing something wrong, because I'm hungry non-stop and kind of miss my very carb-expensive veggies. Perhaps too little fat?
I better find out what to do in the long run, because very low carb combined with quite copious doses of meds won't do. That much I do know.

Based on what you have said it's the methodology I would follow.

 

[briped]

Quite probably, and you sound a lot like me

When I got diagnosed, I hit Google to gen up on the subject and soon found this place. Then digging into the role of carbs in our metabolism, LCHF made a lot of sense and I dived in. Result was around 10kg of weight lost, and my next HbA1c result looking a lot better. But we're all different, and finding an 'L' value that works takes some experimentation. For going keto, that's generally <20g carbs, and it's harder. So it takes maybe a week to get into ketosis, and if you're not careful with carb counting, it's easy to drop out again. And you won't be able to gauge it unless you've got a meter that tests for ketones, or urine test strips.

Good luck though, and the main challenge is finding keto-friendly ingredients and meals that you enjoy. If you balance meat & veg though, it's easier to get the nutrients than it is on a vegan diet.

Too right. According to my logic if LC is good then VeryLC must be even better, which is not necessarily the case for me, but worth a try I will get myself some urine test strips, and if I do get there and see satisfactory results, I know that'll spur me on. I'll head over to the keto people on this board and see what ideas I can pick up. I still have 9,75g of carbs to wallow in tonight

Are you still on LCHF?

 

[briped]

You probably already know that diabetes is a very strange disease in that it isn't straight forward and we can all experience different reactions. Cutting carbs is one aspect that some people choose to do, although not all, and even among those that do there will be different reactions to different foods. You'll hear "eat to your meter" a lot and you'll be finding out over the next few weeks what's best for you. If cutting carbs is what you want to do and maybe finding a little difficult at first, take it slow, there's no rush. As you say "curb your impatience", setting difficult goals can lead to failure and disappointment. You'll get there. All the best.

Thanks. That's one thing I've learned in here, that diabetes isn't straight forward. Before joining this board I wasn't really all that respectful of my diagnosis (2005), because it doesn't seem to have caused me any other grave conditions, but it's about time I learned that so far I have been very lucky. So many other members haven't. I've also learned that cutting carbs does make a big difference to my BG, so it's the way to go, no doubt. However, it doesn't necessarily have to be very low carb I have to be realistic too.

 

[first14808]

Are you still on LCHF?

Yup. Mostly because it makes sense, and I'm enjoying it.. Which suprised me a bit given I love bread

I'm eating to around <40-50g carbs a day, and discovered I'm intermittent fasting. When I was working, I'd gotten into the habit of only eating in the evening, and still doing that. So usually around 6-7pm, otherwise just tea & coffee during the day. For me, that hasn't been a problem, and from reading about fasting patterns, appears OK. Main challenge for me is exercise as I've got limited circulation in one leg due to some blocked stents.. So that gave me the focus to deal with my diabetes as not managing it would likely give me a high risk of losing that leg or foot to diabetic neuropathy. Downside is being on 2.7g of Gabapentin & 60g of codeine and the drowsiness that comes with those. But still been trying to increase my exercise.

I've tried keto before, but struggled a bit to maintain it, mainly due to lifestyle. So one curry night and you're out of the zone. Currently my goal is to fit back into a pair of jeans I found that I'd bought at Uni, so they're probably 25yrs old. I'd given myself a goal to drop from 100kg down to 81kg, and the body composition scales I've got have been helping. They've been great for looking at fat, water & muscle percentages, and currently they're telling me I'm 85kg, 66kg muscle and 18% fat.. Which has also been a bonus as that's been reflected in the mirror and friends comments, which is good for morale & motivation

Being able to see composition data's really helped adjust my diet though, ie if muscle's dropping, eat more protein and try a bit more exercise. But most importantly.. I'm really enjoying my new diet! Junk food's gone, and replaced with lots of peppers, tomatoes, onions, garlic etc.. and no longer feel any guilt using a nice knob of butter to whip up an omlette.