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Should we ban butter?

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by catherinecherub, Jan 18, 2010.

  1. ally5555

    ally5555 · Well-Known Member

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    margarine was developed really to save milk supplies during the war.

    Added to this is something like flora pro active that people use incorrectly - they need to use about 25g (2.4g plant sterol) so they scrape it on and it has no effect on cholesterol levels.Wasted money!
     
  2. Bluenosesol

    Bluenosesol Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    My DN told me that you would have to eat 12 very thickly spread slices of bread each day to make a difference, but then just think of the damage that the 200g carbs of bread would do!.
    As for the yoghurts, they spike my BG!.

    Steve
     
  3. ally5555

    ally5555 · Well-Known Member

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    OMG - did she really tell you that plus potatoes , cereals etc ?

    I really dispair on times!
     
  4. graham64

    graham64 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Steve I think I have found a partial response, this is a reply from a dietitian to a T2 who found his lipids had improved following changing to a HF/LC diet.

    http://www.satfatnav.com/Experts/AskOur ... onist.aspx

    We are unusual :wink: and I think we know the reasons for the profle.

    Cheers
    Graham
     
  5. viv1969

    viv1969 · Well-Known Member

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    Did you know you cannot buy 'margarine' in the UK anymore?
    Go to a supermarket and check it out.
     
  6. clearviews

    clearviews · Well-Known Member

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    Hey there Steve & Graham
    Don't forget me! I am another one who wants to know what is going on.
    Initially my total cholesterol went up and the Dr and Endo never explained ratios, nor did they tell me that with weight loss (19 kgs to date) this is a likely outcome. They just prescribed statins. I gathered up courage, research and threw the scripts away.
    Now I get congratulated for my results and they state that I do not need to take statins.
    Do you think they will ever get around to asking me if I eat butter (and coconut oil, olive oil, macadamia oil, flaxseed oil, pork crackling) while my figures get better and better?
    Alison
     
  7. Bluenosesol

    Bluenosesol Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Alsion,

    those results are inspiring by the way!!...

    I note you have Culburra Beach and we have 3 degrees, dark skies and driving rain!!

    I am no scientist and I take previous points that we are all different etc etc etc......however
    those that achieve good results on a high carb & low fat diet at least have the establishment on their side....
    ...........sometimes as a low carber on high fat achieving great results, I feel like someone who has seen an alien and is too frightened to tell anyone in case they think I am nuts!!.

    All the Best - Steve
     
  8. hanadr

    hanadr · Expert

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    I keep on with my Metformin, because I think it's a safe medicine( at 2 or 3 x 500mg/diem)
    However, I CAN do without IF I'm absluely rigorous with the <20 carbs per day and I like an occasional one as in an apple or a few berries. I even have an occasional carb free chip, You know the ones off someone else's plate
    Hana
    I'm just waiting on the results of this week's bloods. However, my meter average( 1 or 2 tests per day) is currently 5.2 for hte last 7 days.
     
  9. fergus

    fergus Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Just a postscript on the original topic, which of course was essentially whether saturated fats cause heart disease.

    The surgeon quoted an old Finnish Nurses Study on the link between saturated fats and death from heart disease. There have been many more recent clinical trials that have fundamentally questioned that link. The Annals of Nutrition and Metabolism recently published a report on Fats and Fatty Acids in Human Nutrition which was part of an Expert Consultation held by the World Health Organization and Food and Agriculture Organisation.
    Both epidemiological and intervention studies were considered. On the epidemiological studies it was concluded that “Intake of saturated fatty acids was not significantly associated Cardiovascular Heart Disease mortality“ and “ Saturated Fatty Acids was not significantly associated with Cardio Vascular Disease events “.
    The intervention studies, where they compare people on low fat with those not on low fat diets the conclusion was “ fatal cardiovascular disease is not reduced by low fat diets”
    This week there was another significant study published looking at 21 epidemiological studies and the conclusion was.....?
    No association between saturated fat and risk of heart disease and no association between saturated fats and risk of stroke.

    Just in case anyone is interested in the actual evidence, rather than simply confirming established beliefs! :wink:

    All the best,

    fergus
     
  10. phoenix

    phoenix Type 1 · Expert

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    For those interested (and a lot of very serious reading all the background papers to the conference mentioned by Fergus are available to read. There is enough in that set of papers to debate fats until the cows have not only come home but milked and the butter made. :D
    http://www.online.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=Ausgabe&Ausgabe=250361&ProduktNr=223977

    Here is the postcript to the CVD one

    Postcript: from the' Dietary Fat and Coronary Heart Disease: Summary of Evidence from Prospective Cohort and Randomised Controlled Trials' cited by Fergus above

    The second metaanalysis is here
    http://www.nmsociety.org/App_Themes/Images/AboutFat/Siri-Tarino SAFA CVD Risk.pdfand concludes:
    I think that the evidence still supports a wise choice of fats. Though will still go for a little butter on my occasional slice of wholegrain toast and get my polyunsaturated fats from natural sources.
     
  11. catherinecherub

    catherinecherub · Guest

    I found this website which has a good piece on diabetes and nutrition.

    Interestingly, and I quote, "Recommended daily amounts of fat differ depending on whether you are at your desired weight, overweight or have high blood fat, (cholesterol) levels". I agree with this and we all have differing needs. As I am at my desired weight I eat in moderation. Someone who is underweight will need more and someone with high cholesterol needs to lower their fat intake.

    This article explains all the food groups and how to keep your blood glucose in check with nutrition.

    http://www.sansum.org/nut-diab.php
     
  12. clearviews

    clearviews · Well-Known Member

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  13. noblehead

    noblehead Type 1 · Guru
    Retired Moderator

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    Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

    A word that keeps coming up throughout the forum is 'moderation'. Not a better word in the English Dictionary to describe how we all should eat.

    Let's all start a 'moderation group' up on the forum, one that is neither to the left or the right, one stuck firmly in the middle who answers all food questions by starting with the word 'moderation'.
    All those in favour raise your hands..................................................... :roll:

    Guess I'm on my own again! :(

    Nigel
     
  14. clearviews

    clearviews · Well-Known Member

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    I might raise my hand if someone could decide what "moderate" is when it comes to butter.
    Alison
     
  15. brill

    brill Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Regarding plant sterols, Bluenosesol wrote
    Likewise, also they (yoghurts) taste like sick....
    You can buy capsules of the plant sterols in Boots so you don't have to eat tons of marge to get the correct dose. I have been trying them the last few months; I'll get my latest test results next week, so I'll find out whether it's helped. Fingers crossed...
     
  16. Doczoc

    Doczoc · Well-Known Member

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    Well I'm eating loads of butter, lard, cheese and cream. In the absence of starchy carbs I have dropped five stone in weight, my blood lipid panels are the healthiest they've been in years, I reversed fatty liver disease in a couple of months (when I was advised to go on a low fat diet and expect it to take up to two years), stabilised BG, reversed sleep apnoea, and so on and so on.

    The scary thing is that I can see a day when butter is banned forcing me back to the carbs that were killing me.

    The interesting thing is that in all aspects of life we are told we are unique, we have different intelligences, emotional response, spatial awareness, body types (meso, ecto and endo), we respond differently to meds and so the list goes on.

    But try to tell some people that carbs make me unhealthy and I function better on a high fat diet and the sky starts falling in... :(
     
  17. Bluenosesol

    Bluenosesol Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Doczoc,

    MUSIC TO MY EARS......

    I have followed a similar regime, lost over 5 stone, reversed sleep apnoia (awaiting results from recent sleep clinic) and eat fat for England - Trigs decimated from 7.7 to 0.9 and lipids improved fantastically, also reversed fatty liver disease. You must be my twin !!!. :lol: :lol: :lol:
     
  18. Doczoc

    Doczoc · Well-Known Member

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    Ha ha

    When I went to the sleep clinic, I explained I no longer needed treatment. The consultant didn't want to know about my diet, he put it all down to the weight loss! I kept saying, "No, the sleep apnoea went within two weeks of low carbing. And I was suffering many years ago when I was far lighter" He didn't want to know - :(

    So you went against the conventional wisdom for fatty liver too??? How long did it take? My doc simply said 'Remarkable!' when I went back two months after being diagnosed with an all clear result LOL She just said "keep on doing what you are doing!" I was a bit nervous about that, but just knew it was the right thing to do, haven't looked back since!

    By the way my last trigs were 0.7 so na na na na LOL

    Seriously though, well done, it's good to be going in the right direction health wise isn't it. It's a shame it's all anecdotal though, can't be real unless it's been carried out in a lab!
     
  19. sip

    sip · Active Member

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    The short answer is NO.

    The long answer: we are all different and react differently to different foods. Each one of us is unique and must tailor our diets to our physiological needs.

    For example, I cannot eat raw salads as my body finds it extremely difficult to break down raw greens and this in turn causes me to become nauseous or gives me intense migrains.

    My father passed-on at the age of 83. For nearly forty years, I saw him having butter, ghee and ghaur (which is made by boiling molasses extracted from the production of cane sugar) for breakfast.

    I reckon that he was healthier at 80 than I was at 40.
     
  20. JohnFox

    JohnFox · Member

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    When i was young, many years ago, all the dairy produce that was available was raw.
    Steadily, heat treatment has become the norm for dairy produce.
    The increase in heart problems and diabetes has kept pace with this change...

    There is a little and very interesting experiment to try.
    Open a pot of Low-Fat spread, leave it in a shaded place and check it occasionally,
    it will not grow mould, it will not be eaten, even by flies...

    The reason is that it is only one molecule from being pure plastic...

    Butter, in it's raw state is as nature intended it, as are most of the cold pressed
    oils, Coconut, Olive, Walnut, Grapeseed, Avocado, Flaxseed, etc.

    As a diagnosed diabetic, of ten years now, still not taking drugs and still not showing
    any of the 'inevitable' symptoms of degeneration, i am convinced that it is sugar and
    foods that turn into sugar that are the real problem.

    As i still work on my understanding, i am moving more toward fresh and less processed foods.

    Banning Butter is a Silly Idea!
    Leaving it raw would be better.

    John Fox.
     
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