Should we ban butter?

[catherinecherub]

Well I'll never know how my dear dad will take the news. He dies aged 66 following a heart attack and he put butter on steak, fish, vegetables etc. He rarely ate bread and certainly not rice or pasta. He ate new potatoes and grew them but he did not eat excessive amounts. He worked hard and was very active and slim.
Shows we are all different.

 

[jenrose]

No butter should not be banned. I enjoy butter especially since being diagnosed type 2 (although not all the time as I mostly eat olive oil spread) and since eating less carbs I have seen my overall cholesterol reduced. I actually have the opinion that following a low fat diet actually contributed to me coming down with diabetes as I ate more carbs (including lots of fruit juice) to compensate for eating less fat than I did before going on a low carb diet. Butter is not normally eaten on its own so people who consume a lot of butter most likely also consume a lot of bread, crackers and potatoes too and probably eat more chips and pastry, I expect.

 

[noblehead]

Now I'm confused. Doesn't Bernstein recommend eating fatty foods like cream and butter as part of a health diabetic diet?

I don't eat any butter as I have a dairy allergy but I eat coconut oil instead which is pure saturated fat. Does anybody know if that's likely to cause heart problems?

Hi goji.

The only person qualified enough and indeed knows your medical history is your doctor. I am sure he won't mind you asking him for his professional opinion on dietary advice.

Best wishes

Nigel

 

[phoenix]

From the Finnish data:
The national butter consumption
per capita has reduced from some 18 kg in 1965 to less
than 3 kg in 2005

That seems to work out at an original consumption of 3/4, lb per week which to me seems a very high amount.
Now it's nearer 2ounces.
It wasn't just the amount of butter that changed though. Over the period there was also a big drop in smoking, reduction in total fat with polyunsaturated increased and sat fat reduced, an increase in the consumption of fruit and veg and reduced salt intake.. all of which may well of contributed to the overall decrease in CVD.
Personally, I agree with others about moderation. As for banning butter, personally I think it's verging on the ludicrous. Transfats from partially hydrogenated oils though are a different matter, I don't know of anyone suggesting they have any health benefits.

 

[noblehead]

Thanks Phoenix,

This is what I mentioned in my earlier post, was it a result of cutting back on all saturated fat, obviously the answer is yes. Reduced salt and more veg intake would undoubtedly help in the decrease in CVD.

Mind, 3/4 Ib a week to 2 ounces of butter is a big drop indeed. I think we all could learn a lesson or two from our friends in Finland!

Regards

Nigel

 

[carty]

The part of this report I read sugested that children were at risk because they had toast and butter for breakfast.I would think that most children would eat far more fat, and bad fat at that from eating crisps chips and processed food seen going by in shopping trollys at supermarkets.

 

[Synonym]

Why ever would we even want to ban something so delicious and useful?

As for children being at risk because of eating butter on their toast at breakfast I am certain I read recently that children were in danger because parents were feeding them reduced fat options instead of the full fat they need for growth. :shock:

You could try speaking to the people who run breakfast clubs in schools for the children who otherwise would get absolutely no breakfast at all and I am sure they would tell you what would be the preferred option.

 

[ham79]

ban the chemical rubbish first. like anything it's fine in moderation

 

[IanD]

When I was a child, they were always trying to get me to eat more fat, & as butter was the most acceptable, I was given some of the family's butter ration.

I was taught at school that we need fat to slow our digestion & get more benefit from our food, & feel full for longer, so less need to snack.

And full cream Jersey milk was the best. Top of the milk on our puddings, too.

 

[Dippy3103]

I don't think so. I mean why stop there... all sorts of things are high in fat, education is the key.
Besides, i prefer to give my child (who is of normal weight) butter over marge- he has just a scraping of it. Beats the artificail taste.
All things in moderation.

 

[clearviews]

Hana,
Ancel Keys was a scientist and not a Heart Surgeon. The article refers to a Heart Surgeon who is seeing the consequences of saturated fat consumption.

As a surgeon and not a scientist, how does he know that it is the butter that is causing the problem? Does he find butter lining the arteries? Where is the scientific evidence that it is the saturated fat and not the carbohydrates that has brought about the huge increase in heart disease over the last three decades while so many of us were religiously following a low fat diet?

Alison

 

[clearviews]

[quote="noblehead")

The only person qualified enough and indeed knows your medical history is your doctor. I am sure he won't mind you asking him for his professional opinion on dietary advice.

Best wishes

Nigel[/quote]
I agree that your medical professional knows your history and knows what he/she has been taught re-dietary advice. What if what they have been taught about dietary fat has been based on an unproven foundation that has become accepted as fact?

I have had the same experience as Bluenosesol with my lipids, BP, HbA1c since I cut the carbs and upped the saturated fats and re-introduced butter into my life for the first time in 30 years, over 12 months ago. Hannadr I am with you 100% too and I think that there are more than 3 of us out there who know that this is the way.
I want to live at least another 38 years to match my grandmother who ran an egg farm and made butter from a crate of cream each week. She died not from heart disease at 96, but from complications (from a chipped spine) when she fell off a step ladder while changing a light bulb.
I can't wait for the tide to turn re-dietary advice based on proven facts to become the new advice.
Alison

 

[Bluenosesol]

The only person qualified enough and indeed knows your medical history is your doctor. I am sure he won't mind you asking him for his professional opinion on dietary advice.

I fell into the trap of believeing that my GP knew me best and hence was in safe hands. I have been treated with gout for several years and sleep apnoia for a couple of years. Despite being obese, it never occured to my GP to test me for diabetes, even though (I know now!!!), there is a strong association between these conditions.

I actually self-diagnosed my diabetes in April last year and had it confirmed by my Occy Health nurse.

Following forum advice which is not what my GP advised, I have come off medication, lost 5 stone in weight, got my HBA1C down to 5.6, cured my sleep apnoia and have not had a gout attack since I commenced low carb.

My GP is a very nice man, unfortunately he is NOT the answer for ME...


All the Best - Steve.

 

[phoenix]

Ian mentions eating part of his families butter ration , as this was only 2 oz per week, I think most of us would think that to be a moderate amount.
I'd also been recalling when we used to use the cream from the top of the milk, but I was thinking that this wasn't just a great economy, it also moderated intake. Skimmed milk for drinking and a fairly restricted amount of cream on our puds but now not possible since all milk seems to be homgenised.

Back to the doctor that started this discussion.

There is a video of a triple heart bypass performed by Shyam Kolvekar on a 48 year old Asian chef. It is claimed that the amount of fat deposited around and in this patient's heart and arteries was directly caused by a diet high in sat fat (notably ghee...clarified butter) he neither drinks alcohol nor smokes.
Warning...graphic images of a heart operation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn24HwjX1Xg

The video was made for an internet hosted debate on Sat fat . The host was Unilever though John Humphries who chairs it says that it was not controlled by them.
An edited version of the debate is on their website. It is interesting as it condenses the arguments, with speakers from both sides of the debate but I found it infuriating because it seems to leave the arguments in mid air rather than discussing them.
Another warning, contains stills from the video and reminders of the consequences of uncontrolled diabetes. fairly long
http://www.satfatnav.com/Experts/SatFatDebate.aspx

 

[jopar]

The problem isn’t so much with butter, but the compilation of what a lot of our foods actually contains which probably causes us the most harm in the long run..

When you look at healthy people, you do tend to find that they eat a reasonable amount of foods throughout the day, but there diet is based on a varied fresh produce based with meals being cooked from scratch with fresh ingredients... Rather than relying on processed meals...

If I look at my own fat intake, I’m middle of the road neither following a low fat diet, nor high fat I use full fat milk, I eat normal cheese, I tend to use lean meat as I personally don’t like fat on meat etc, I have the occasional fry up, and yes the bread and eggs are fried, but bacon grilled...

When we consider saturated fats, which we find in our foods both as a natural fat also has a manmade fat that it’s the latter trans-fats that are more harmful than using a natural source? Trans-fats tend to be hidden in our foods and used to extend shelf life of a product so in the main would be found in the processed foods that are high in carbohydrates etc... Perhaps it’s the compilation of these factors that cause more damage and this theory would sit quite well, as increased obesity and cardiac health both started at a similar time span as these trans-fats were being introduced into our foods!

I still believe in the old saying, ‘’ a little of everything is good for you, too much of one is bad’’ A little tangent here, I find that foods that I prepare from scratch at home actually effect my blood glucose differently than the identical meal pre-processed, if I make my own pastry this has a more even and controllable effect on my blood glucose than that of a shop brought pastry...

But to ban butter which is a natural product is well a step too far, nanny states are a very bad thing in a demarcated world indeed... As it’s taking the individual rights of choice away from them..

 

[Patch]

What does it take to ban food??? And could something as long established as butter actually get banned? There are far worse fats out there that SHOULD be banned but are not.

 

[goji]

The only person qualified enough and indeed knows your medical history is your doctor. I am sure he won't mind you asking him for his professional opinion on dietary advice.

Best wishes

Nigel

NIgel, I appreciate the sentiment but the comment really made me laugh. :lol:

Doctors aren't qualified at all to give nutritional advice - apart from a few lectures on rare diseases like beri-beri, they don't really study nutrition.

Plus as the others have said, it was on doctors' advice that I ate a high-carb diet for many years with its attendant rocketing blood sugars. Doctors' advice left me with an Hba1c of 9 whereas I can now achieve below 6's.

I might try this guy though, he is a cardiologist with an interest in nutrition,,, heartscanblog.blogspot.com/

 

[noblehead]

The only person qualified enough and indeed knows your medical history is your doctor. I am sure he won't mind you asking him for his professional opinion on dietary advice.

Best wishes

Nigel

NIgel, I appreciate the sentiment but the comment really made me laugh. :lol:

Doctors aren't qualified at all to give nutritional advice - apart from a few lectures on rare diseases like beri-beri, they don't really study nutrition.

Plus as the others have said, it was on doctors' advice that I ate a high-carb diet for many years with its attendant rocketing blood sugars. Doctors' advice left me with an Hba1c of 9 whereas I can now achieve below 6's.

I might try this guy though, he is a cardiologist with an interest in nutrition,,, heartscanblog.blogspot.com/

That's fine gogi, if my reply made you laugh it served some purpose then!

The topic of discussion was 'should we ban butter? ' of which I replied no, that all things in moderation. The main debate and what the cardio-surgeon was stating, was that a diet of increased saturated fat is causing a increase in numbers of younger people with cardio-diseases. It was placed on the diabetes discussions board for people to debate, and offer their own personal view.

Now, if I am unmistaken, you asked the question: 'Coconut oil which is pure saturated fat, does anybody know if that's likely to cause heart problems?' As nobody answered your question, I advised you to seek advice from your gp, you knows your past and present medical history, knows what medications you are taking, and will be aware of any history of heart problems in your family, so that he may give you advice, or refer you to a specialist who may assess your dietary needs based on your risk factors.

What I have offered is the mainstream advice given to people embarking on changing their lifestyle and dietary needs, sorry that you didn't appreciate my help, but I am sure that you could ask Bernstein this question, as I am sure he will know all about your medical history. :wink:

Best wishes for now!

Nigel

 

[hanadr]

This heart surgeon may well be brilliant at doing coronary bypasses, but he does not "know" that butter causes the problem. He cannot have got detailed accurate food records for all his patients and had the final proof of never needing to operate on a patient who has not eaten butter. There's no way in which this probably well intentioned person has established a definite causal effect.

Being a surgeon and not the referring physician, he probably knows less about the patients' eating plans than you think.
There are protocols for establishing the validity of evidence and none have been shown here.
It's pure prejudice!
How on earth could the recently invented product of a chemistry lab be better for our health than something wholesome and natural, which we have lived with for centuries? It defies logic.
don't foget how many brands of Margarine, Unilever manufacture.

 

[phoenix]

Hana,
I agree with you that it is impossible to determine whether or not an excess of ghee was related to this particular patients CVD but I give more credence to a cardiac surgeon knowing and understanding something of the multitude of studies on diet and CVD than you do.(
This patient was obviously used as an exemplar of what this particular surgeon feels sat fat can do.
The discussion, hosted or not by unilever is not onesided by any means.
I wholeheartedly (no pun intended!) agree that butter (in moderation :wink: ) is a better alternative to the chemical alternatives offered by the food industry .