Sick of Counting! Grrrrr

[AloeSvea]

@AloeSvea glad you getting back your old dear of a GP.

yes! I am looking forward to it indeed. Won't be for a wee while though, but time enough for my next HBA1c, just before Xmas.

Brekkie: "So annoying when docs don’t listen to you. It’s even written in my hospital notes “patient complains that she is not being listened to and it’s not in her head”

I laughed out loud at that , in an "OH boy" way - but it IS truly shocking! I guess schooltime compliance and punishment models still operate at all ages and stages of life? Truly shocking though.

I'm hoping we can do something about the standard of diabetes care as a group, as we are a mighty BIG group, and I do mean globally. In my country the ideals of diabetes care are all laid out, and they look smashing on paper! - I'm sure they are in GB too? And I have been referring to them in this thread. Could you stand looking it up online for your own country? (I had to recently for research into something I am writing.) It can be a bit 'twilight zone'y, and maybe even a bit depressing? I don't know. It is for me here.

An article that came out fairly recently refers to the "coming tidal wave" meaning type two diagnoses, and how healthcare systems globally will make the covid 'thing' look like a gentle build up to the big crash - let's hope that is not going to be the case! But considering the dreadful state of the food and drink environment, child and youth bad-health due to the bad food and drink, and still no good-enough governmental constraints, and now the additional leaping inflation that directly affects the cost of food (boy have I noticed it in my own wallet) and still the same old demonising of saturated fat, and promoting grains and talking like the answer is living off salads (no dressing) and fruit for dessert - ha! I can't see how it won't be a tidal wave. (Tidal waves are a fitting analogy here in the South Pacific in the middle of a mighty big ocean. I don't know what metaphor or analogy they would use in Europe.) (I use Europe geographically speaking, note! Nothing to do with trade agreements and what not.)

Brekkie:"Let’s hope your old Gem of a GP gets you your B12 numbers to be checked out."

it's her test results that provided me with my baseline figures. Bless her. The only thing she could do now is prescribe me a supplement of give me an injection of B12. I'm not sure about state subsidised supplementation - not even Sweden does that. (I'm pretty sure I paid for my own vitamin D3 spray at the pharmacy.) At any rate - I am not expecting state-subsidised B12 - been doing the online scrolling looking for a decent one at an OK price.
Anyway, buying the supplement will be cheaper than seeing her for a prescription - lol. That's how it goes isn't it? Generally? Which is why repeat prescriptions are a blessing, and in my country at least have become like nuggets of gold to be dished out sparingly.

Brekkie: "And as for the diabetic foot check .. just a tickle with a brushy thing and that’s it. Nobody cares here in the UK either if you have diabetes distress or medicine side effects so if it’s any consolation things are not so great in Great Britain too!"

I really don't understand the reasoning behind these obviously foolhardy practices. Because, as I delightfully remind docs, nurses and pharmacists - amputations are not cheap! Nor is kidney dialysis. Nor are the plethora of so- called anti-diabetes medications. But those costs are invoiced by powerful entities - surgeons! Including bariatric surgeons, but of course it's majorly - Big Pharma. (And too - Big Food.) My local country town pharmacist absolutely LOVES me doing an up on a mini soapbox in her pharmacy when I have to go through the usual, sad, performance to get even my metformin regularly - and I have well given up on the BG test strips and testing paraphernalia. Which was the point I believe. Which is truly truly sad.

 

[AloeSvea]

I'd have laughed at that comment. Admittedly the Metformin and Atorvastatin really hit me hard, but after throwing them away I have been able to regain strength and energy. I don't count anything other than the days to the next meeting up with friends for music dancing and singing.

Ah Resurgam - you are in remission. That's a mighty wonderful position to be in, and when it comes to not having to count stuff.

If I had ever been able to get there I would have spent lots of time celebrating, to begin with, and then singing loudly, being very relieved after , keeping a cursory eye on my BG meter which kept showing healthy levels of blood glucose. Sigh. But alas, that is not the case for me. Most recently to work very hard at getting from an HBA1c of 63 post a covid booster, then to 57, then to 52, and then to 47 over the last months. Too many still sick fat cells for me, is my understanding.

 

[AloeSvea]

Just when I thought the requests to count had been exhausted - I was asked to count the actual individual metformin tablets taken in a given time period by a practice nurse (when my wee bottle was deplete). I actually just laughed. It really is hillarious.

I know it 'only' involves reading the last pill bottle, the numbers there I had to figure out (I know - I'm really not a numbers person - I had to go and look at previous bottles of metformin untaken in years past, to understand the number of tablets was the number preceeding the letters for the drug), then the date on the bottle... But do patients really have to keep a track of that?

I do think back to swell Sweden at times like this, when my BG test strips just came regularly in the mail (as I guess metformin would have it I had been taking it). Soooooo nice when other (professional) folks do the counting.... (And leave me to count the important stuff, like my trig/hdl ratio, my blood pressure, and you know - my FBGs....oh and my waist for a waist hip ratio and....)

 

[AloeSvea]

Hi @Brekkie - always lovely to read you . You've been portion controling as well as OMADing or 2MADing? Goodness! And no wonder your cold weather might be making you hungry. Very natural for your body to say, "hey there Brekkie - we need some more fuel to keep us warm!"

And I feel with you re ratios. I have always done my own ratios - which has always felt like counting enough. Or - more - sticking in numbers onto an online ratio counting hoo-dackey. Your medical centre/GP will not in all likelihood be interested in your trig/hdl ratio, sadly. My country medical centre can't even cope with waist measurements and waist height ratios, instead of the ol' kg and BMI. Very annoying. But I bit the bullet with those things and tend to just talk BMI to them, now, and they are much happier with that. (Poor beepers!)

Cute story about the coffee! I feel for you! Molases? Wow! Heavy duty sweetener that one. Cheeky coffee manufacturers.

I personally wouldn't worry about protein, as in counting it. But I can take a lot of protein, I think. Are you sure you need to be counting it?But this is why I identify as LCHF more than Keto really - as I see protein and fat going together, and eat it that way. It works well for me. You need to be fueled by something, and if it isn't carbs - then protein and fat is the goer. Or can be.

 

[Outlier]

Was your molasses-enriched coffee instant or ground? I drink a lot of coffee and would like to avoid accidentally taking in anything that will spike my BG. Currently I am changing back and forth between decaff and real ground coffee, and the jury is out, so any extra info would be very welcome.

 

[Oldvatr]

Americano is guilty as charged. Most expresso's use dark roast beans that caramelise when roasted. The molasses is the residue from burning sugar and can come in powder form. so may appear in packet coffee's and instants, and pods.

 

[AloeSvea]

Well, I got trained in coffee-drinking by serious coffee drinkers - the only more serious about coffee (strong, tasty, and lots of it) than Swedes, are the Finns. So my counting coffees is about when I drink it, being senstive to caffeine, so I keep it all before 1pm, so's I can get to sleep at night. But I guess I have a very strong routine for how much coffee I make for the coffee pot in the morning. And I take Sundays off - not for health reasons, but for relaxing on Sunday mornings reasons. No drugs!

It never occured to me to worry about the energy provided by coffee, except the good way! Ig of carbs for an Americano, right? Nah - no way am I bothering counting that! I know the Mayo clnic says those of us with screwed up blood glucose regulation may have a rise from a cup of coffee or two or three or... but I have never noticed it on my own counts. ie - Sunday is not different from any other day.

As far as I know, black coffee - no calories (if you are counting calories), or next to no calories. It's the additional things that provided that, right?

 

[AloeSvea]

@Brekkie, remind me again what your health goal/s are? Re the portion control, as well as IFing. Because you got your blood glucose down to a healthy level, right? Is your goal weight loss? Because if you have your blood glucose (and insulin) regulated now, naturally as it were, you have reached your personal fat threshold (lucky you!). According to that theory re T2D at any rate.

In terms of numbers, and counting, one's personal fat threshold is a tricky thing, from my experience. The times I got to upper end non-diabetic levels, my waist was bigger (numbers on the tape measure!) than it is now, and my Fasting Blood Glucose readings are not like they were then. For me, when my FBGs are right down to between 4.-something (rare!) and 6, I am in 'most control' regarding my T2D. But those times were soon-ish after diagnosis, as in the first couple of years. And I have not been able to get there again. (Just to remind - been low-carbing the whole time! From six -12 months post diagnosis, when I really came to understand the role of carbs.)

Carb-counting, as in reading labels at the supermarket, knowing the carb levels of staple foods - that is so ingrained and part of my life, my brain, my fridge, my cupboards! I don't count that in the "Grrrrr" aspect of carb counting

 

[AloeSvea]

Many thanks @Brekkie for sharing your health goals, and your own counting grrrs.

For the three meals - you could do the 'sunrise to sunset' eating window IF pattern? Just means aligning your eating with the sun (or the theoretical presence of the sun if raining etc .) I have found that regimen quite effective and painless. I still eat "enough" not to be hungry, which is very important to me- don't like being hungry! (Or cold, so I feel for you on that one.)

On that note - not liking to walk in the rain and cold - you are being a normal mammal! (Re the cold - I think it's probably more the rain? As someone who has walked heaps in snow and ice, but dry, and wearing appropriate clothing - and even used outdoor gyms in the snow. Wet and cold is truly horrible. Just it being below zero/snowing when warm and dry in cold weather clothing - rather lovely even!)

And normal to like various plants that change our energy and emotional states - ie those coffee beans ground up with water for a drink.

 

[Outlier]

My molasses enriched coffee was instant. From Sainsbury’s I think called Percol. Ingredients stated 100% arabica instant coffee. Taste: hints of dark chocolate and molasses. All a bit confusing in my opinion. No mention of proportion of chocolate or molasses. Tbh I had bought it just before diagnosis. I’ve never been much of a coffee drinker and know very little about coffee saving it for when feeling a little cold or under the weather. But I guess since it’s got colder I have been rather enjoying it. Ah wells I won’t be buying it again.

Thanks for explanation - much appreciated.

 

[Lobsang Tsultim]

I had a professor at university whose research topic was Antarctica. She maintained that the cold and wet months in the north of England always made her feel colder and more miserable than the dry cold of Antarctica

 

[SaskiaKC]

Hi y'all. In the last few weeks I have found myself looking up 'diabetes burnout' and, the official phrase in my country (Aotearoa/New Zealand) - 'diabetes distress'.

Why? You might ask. Well, here I am on the soapbox -

I'm sick of counting! (Self inflicted, due to N=1, and being asked to by medical practitioners.) I'm sick of counting blood glucose test strips to fit some bizarre criteria of appropriate for a type two (I gave up! Which I think was the intention, and self-fund now, which - yeah - I think was the intention). I'm sick of counting up trips and months and years to hospitals for retinopathy tests (somehow my retesting call up what-not has gotten lost in the - what? I have no idea), I'm sick of counting the numbers of test results, I'm sick of averaging my FBGs for my latest experiment (counting!), I'm sick of counting carbs, counting walkies and lifting for my 'exercise' quotient, counting the years passing, counting my life expectancy when it changes, counting my waist circumference, my weight, my ratios, my ratios when my blood lipid results get back....

And why am I sick of it now? Because a new GP told me that if I go and get a new HBA1c test a day too early from the stipulated three months, the lab will send the specimen back. (new strict rules apparently). I asked her what then, was the date I could have my next HBA1c, to the day, if to the day is so important now - no reply. I asked the practice nurse to get back to me on that - no reply. Oh! I think - the onus is on me to work out the three months is exact, between HBA1cs. I have to count! And gee - I hope I am counting correctly! Because - yeah - this is my responsibility now. Otherwise, my specimen will not be tested.

I rang the labs contact number for enquiries. How do they count three months - is it business days, or? No reply.

Grrrrrr! I'm so so so tired of counting....

Eight years , so far, with type two, just felt like a really long time. And, hopefully if I can keep my kidneys and my heart as healthy as possible with way too high blood glucose levels - I get to live a couple of decades more. and yeah - I just counted that up in my head! (Did I tell you I'm sick of counting?)

Type 1s/SIDDS and SAIDs are probably rolling their eyes at me - and understandably.

But is anyone else getting sick of counting? And being asked, yet again, to count some more?

Any yaes or naes - all - much appreciated.

I got tired of counting too. And weighing and worrying and stressing.
I don't do all that regularly anymore. I'm fortunate in that my mother was a professional nutritionist/home economist and knew about carbs and proteins and fats.
These days I try to just eat sensibly (I don't always succeed!). Four years since dx, I think, and I weigh around 20 pounds less than I did then, and while I'd like to lose more weight I try to be content with exercising regularly, trying to eat healthfully, and get enough sleep.
I'm 70. I've never had a retinopathy exam, none of my doctors have suggested I have one; I'm not sure they're covered by US Medicare (government health plan for elders), and we have very few medical specialists where I live now anyway. My father had macular degeneration which worries me more than possible cataracts or diabetic retinopathy, although I'm not sure that's a sensible attitude on my part.
I'd rather get rid of the arthritis or fibromyalgia or whatever it is that causes aches and pains, which my elderly cat gets too. But thank goodness she isn't diabetic!

 

[AloeSvea]

Greetings @SaskiaKC. Yes - very good news indeed that your mother was able to pass on the info about macronutrients (I hope I do that for my adult kids.)

Re the arthritis versus the diabetes - I hear you on that one! It brings to mind the funny, which can be applied to arthritis pain? - "Arthritis doesn't kill you, but it might make you wish it did!" (I don't really mean that of course!) I was lucky I have a cousin who warned me about the pain of arthritis, otherwise I would have been deeply shocked the first time I was walking along , to suddenly feel like I had knives going into my ankle. Ouch doesn't quite cover it! She had warned me it could feel like that, bless her.

I don't know what to say about your diabetes care not covering regular eye exams! I guess I am pretty shocked. But yes, different countries have different plans, for sure.

You might like what one of my Aunts and I concluded - she is in her 70s, and she suggested 70s is not elderly. I was happy to concur. The 80s, we decided - yes, that was elderly - but 70s are the new 60s and all that , even with diabetes! (I do have an Aunt in her 80s and SHE swears 80s isn't elderly either - so, hehe, I guess it's all up for grabs?!)

 

[Outlier]

Elderly is 20 years older than we are at any time.

 

[SaskiaKC]

Greetings @SaskiaKC. Yes - very good news indeed that your mother was able to pass on the info about macronutrients (I hope I do that for my adult kids.)

Re the arthritis versus the diabetes - I hear you on that one! It brings to mind the funny, which can be applied to arthritis pain? - "Arthritis doesn't kill you, but it might make you wish it did!" (I don't really mean that of course!) I was lucky I have a cousin who warned me about the pain of arthritis, otherwise I would have been deeply shocked the first time I was walking along , to suddenly feel like I had knives going into my ankle. Ouch doesn't quite cover it! She had warned me it could feel like that, bless her.

I don't know what to say about your diabetes care not covering regular eye exams! I guess I am pretty shocked. But yes, different countries have different plans, for sure.

You might like what one of my Aunts and I concluded - she is in her 70s, and she suggested 70s is not elderly. I was happy to concur. The 80s, we decided - yes, that was elderly - but 70s are the new 60s and all that , even with diabetes! (I do have an Aunt in her 80s and SHE swears 80s isn't elderly either - so, hehe, I guess it's all up for grabs?!)

I like that philosophy! I will share it with my 70s friends. When I turned 70 I thought, OK, now I guess I will be officially "old." But I like your aunt's and your philosophy much much better.

 

[SaskiaKC]

Elderly is 20 years older than we are at any time.

I like that.

 

[JohnEGreen]

Agree this counting can get boring.But better in the end maybe than being like some
diabetic people who can't now count their toes.

Oh they can still count them just takes a shorter time to do so.

 

[SaskiaKC]

Oh they can still count them just takes a shorter time to do so.

Grrrrruesome shivers, John!

 

[Aishia]

A bit below the belt for people who have had amputations

 

[AloeSvea]

Ah, @Aishia, I understand what you are saying there. But when people with diabetes joke about such, it is what I would suggest, is 'gallows humour' ( and I like gallows humour myself).

I think when folks who have the dastardly disease joke about the ghastly 'complications', it isn't as a person standing there with the noose about to hang some poor hapless person, but someone who is standing by and 'there by the grace of god go I'-ing, which I imagine where gallows humour first sprung - from other people narrowly or nae missing out on the noose etc, not the people in power or the folks doing the hanging... hope I'm being helpful, and not the opposite? ( if we were at a face to face meet up in a cafe or bar, such a thing would be resolved pronto smart, with humour, and good grace and camaraderie - and we do a pretty good job/as good a job as we can? with mere words, of maintaining that in here? I hope.)