Some bad news

Hi. Don't panic. Most of us find the low-carb diet is the key to lowering blood sugar. Be aware that some in the NHS offer the same diet advice as my good nurse does but others follow dated and bad advice so just be aware of that.

You'll almost certainly get more advice on here than from your surgery. Plenty of advice, much of it well researched and most of it personal experience. I've learnt far more about managing t2 here than talking to a diabetic nurse.
Theres plenty you can do to avoid full blown t2. And try to avoid feeling guilty, theres often a genetic link. Lots of my mums side are or were t2.

Dominy said:

Hi everyone, and thankyou for reading.

Got a generic letter delivered to me today, telling me the worrying news that I'm pre diabetic. Kind of surprised that I didn't get a call from the surgery to talk through the results but there you go.
I know this is down to my own poor food choices - Chocolate being my vice, and I am just eager to hear from others who have found themselves in my position. I'm a 43 year old woman, not particularly overweight, vegetarian who eats only occasional dairy, very active (I'm a cyclist) very rarely drink alcohol. Thanks in advance!

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Hello Dominy, and welcome,

Even at the best of times, most GP's don't handle this sort of news-breaking well. Forget it in this Corona-era. The crazy thing is, you are actually lucky to have been told you're prediabetic at all. At least you get a chance to head it off before you get to full blown diabetes with complications to fix and whatnot. Quite a few of us never got that chance, yours truly included. So hard as it may seem, try to consider this as good news. You're catching and tackling this early!

Another bit of good news: extra dark chocolate, say 85% and up, is still on the table. Not many carbs in that.

Which brings me to the bad news; vegetarian and vegan ways of eating are indeed carb-laden, and it's the carbs you can't process. There are people who manage it, if you search the forum you'll find a sub header for that way of eating, but it is extremely restrictive. A lot of your usual choices in fruits and vegetables would be nixed. I'm sorry. Just delve into what low carb eating means and figure out how to apply it to your life and principles. Of course, you could go for medication, but the drawback there is that you'll need ever increasing amounts and the diabetes will be progressive, resulting in complications down the line. Combining a moderate diet with medication can make a difference there though. So those are some of the options you can look into:
-low carb, high fat and vegetarian
-low carb, high fat omnivore
-either of those in a moderate amount with medication
-medication only
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog-entry/the-nutritional-thingy.2330/ will give you some of the basics you might want to know about T2/prediabetes and how to test effectively, but it does include foods with faces, for which I apologise. I wrote it with omnivores in mind.

All in all, you've got a lot of reading to do and choices to make, but from what I gather, there are people here who follow a vegetarian/vegan low carb diet, so it can be done. Just doesn't leave you with as many food choices as you had a week ago. Just remember, you need to find what eorks for you. For your health, your ethical outlook and your lifestyle. It's not a one-size fits all. For me, as it now turns out, well... I got the diabetes in remission with low carbing. But I had so very many other issues, most of them resulting in chronic pain and inflammation... Turns out, plants don't agree with me at all. Having spent years eating salads and veggies like they were going out of style, I miss them quite a bit, but my body seems to prefer meat, fish, poultry and eggs. Basically, the carnivore diet. It's inconvenient, very restrictive and expensive, but I do feel better over all. But that is *me*. I can tell you that this is the holy grail and whatnot, but that might not apply to you at all! So whatever people tell you: walk your own path. There's but a few universal truths in this condition. Practically all carbs turn to glucose when ingested. That's the main one. The second: trust in your meter. (Yes, get one!). It won't try to sell you on one diet or another, it'll just let you know without bias whether a meal agreed with you or not. No hidden agenda or desire to sell you slimming shakes. Between those two things, you'll find what works for you. Might take a little time, but yeah... You're going to be okay.

Good luck,
Jo

Dominy said:

Thankyou so much for this wonderful response. Its definitely something I will be referring back to.
Such a lot of great information. I am really grateful for the time you took and its indeed reassuring to know that its not all doom and gloom. I just feel foolish for eating so much sugary **** and kind of using the pandemic to justify it as some sort of "self care", where because the world is so stressful, I have carte blanche to eat what I wish and **** the consequences. "I deserve it!"
D'oh. Please keep in touch with me as I could really do with some guidance through all this!

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Okay, so.... Quit kicking yourself around, alright? T2 is in your genes. Prediabetes was going to show up sooner or later. Inevitable. Did a slight bit of overindulgence speed things up a tad? It might have. Who knows. But it WAS coming. Maybe it would've been a year from now, but your genes and your way of eating were basically a one-way street. Your inability to process carbs is problematic when it comes to a varied vegetarian kitchen. You don't have the same meal options others with a properly working metabolism do, and you didn't know that. That is NOT your fault. That's genes. Now you know you can't deal with carbs, and that they spike your blood sugars. So now you can do something about it! Yay! That's the beauty of this: Today's a new day. And tomorrow's another one. I was very diabetic and very, very ill when I was diagnosed. My non-alcoholic fatty liver disease was so bad they thought my liver was one big cancerous tumour, so I didn't get much of a chance to worry about the T2 at first: I thought I only had a few weeks to live left, anyway. Low carb eating fixed that fatty liver, proving the doc who told me there was nothing I could do but die slowly and painfully, wrong. It put my T2 in remission. It got my blood pressure to a point where it's actually a tad too low if I don't have some extra salt. Cholesterol's pretty good too. So if you were waaaay worse off than you are now, you'd still be able to turn things around! And with Corona, you know what? Almost everyone I know packed on the pounds. Some members here just vanish for a while because they fall of the wagon and don't want to talk about it. Comfort eating, eating out of boredom, it's just what humans tend to do in bizarre times like these, so don't think you're the only one. I'm the weirdo for picking this time to experiment with a different diet, because I wasn't out every weekend having lunch in places that couldn't cater to my changing needs. So please.... You can't help your genetic make-up, and you can't help being a human in extreme circumstances. What you do have a say in is how you go on from here. Research, change your diet if you want to, and see what works for you.

As for keeping in touch, I've disabled the private message option because I was getting overwhelmed. (I have generalised and social anxiety, and I was starting to have the weight of the world on my shoulders with a few too many people asking things I didn't have adequate answers to), but I'm on here most days anyway. I'm kinda hard to miss!

Main take-away for now though: You didn't deserve this. None of us did.
Hugs,
Jo

PS: In case you hadn't located it yet: https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/category/vegetarian-diet-forum.71/ might be helpful. As well as https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/recipes/vegetarian over at Dietdoctor.com. You don't have to sign up there as a paying member to see most of their recipes.

Hello Dominy,
It is probably frustrating to get such a generic letter from GP with no further explanation or suggestions. However, I think there might be a ray of sunshine, because you might have enough time to take action.

I'm diabetic for over 10 years. For half of that time I was treated as T1 but later it turned out I have MODY type, so I take medications for T2 diabetes. My HbA1c is within healthy persons range, because over these years I had enough time to experiment and see what works for me. So I can only share my experience and findings, but it's your decision to make what route you want to go.

For the last 5 years I've been on a plant based diet and that was a game changer for me. When I came across couple of documentaries on people reversing T2 diabetes on plant based diet, and then I found this guy, Robby Barbaro T1 diabetic who is on raw plant based diet (and eats all kind fruits we were told we shouldn't be eating because their high in sugar). I thought, I might not have a chance to reverse it but I definitely want to do the best I can to improve my diabetes and decided to try plant based diet, and see. My HbA1c is at the best level compare to prior the diet change. Eliminating some foods could be little bit upsetting but you will discover many more food combinations and recipes that you will get creative with it.

I would also watch out for the low-carb, high fat diet, because even on this website it says "The low fat approach has been strongly recommended for people with diabetes." and on a Harvard Health Publishing they say "A diet rich in saturated fats can drive up total cholesterol, and tip the balance toward more harmful LDL cholesterol, which prompts blockages to form in arteries in the heart and elsewhere in the body. For that reason, most nutrition experts recommend limiting saturated fat to under 10% of calories a day." and I found a study in the past that high fat diet is associated with insulin resistance. So I would think twice about the high fat diet, because diabetics are already at the higher risk at developing arterial and cardiovascular disease. In the same topic, I would also add that National Institute of Health wrote in their Eating red meat daily triples heart disease-related chemical study that "Compared to people eating diets rich in white meat or plant-based protein, those who ate a diet rich in red meat had triple the levels of a chemical linked to heart disease." Also another reason to ditch, or not even look to the direction of eating meat is that even Cancer Research UK links processed meat to cancer (in which, we diabetics have increased risk to as well).

My advice would be have a look at some documentaries at reversing Type2 diabetes to get some inspiration. Do more research in depth, study nutritions and hopefully you will find what works for you. As someone said "Live like a diabetic with heart disease so you'd never become one", or something between those lines.

As for myself I am quite ok with moderate carb intake (I wouldn't call it low-carb) and I am mostly on low-fat diet because I don't digest them well but I found that it helps me keep my sugar under control. Since reducing the fat intake I've noticed that I can deal better with carbs. And you can look into low GI products as well. I also don't limit myself to any type of fruits either, I enjoy my favourites and to get various vitamins.

I could go on and on, but I'll shut up now haha. So yeah, hope you'll find this helpful and if you have some questions I'll be happy to answer them.

Jurgita V said:

I would also watch out for the low-carb, high fat diet, because even on this website it says "The low fat approach has been strongly recommended for people with diabetes." and on a Harvard Health Publishing they say "A diet rich in saturated fats can drive up total cholesterol, and tip the balance toward more harmful LDL cholesterol, which prompts blockages to form in arteries in the heart and elsewhere in the body. For that reason, most nutrition experts recommend limiting saturated fat to under 10% of calories a day."

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And there’s plenty of evidence now that doubts the validity of that advice. There’s a huge big thread titled something close to “cholesterol and statins“ by bulkbiker that links to massive amounts of information on it. Fundamentally the low fat advice is what’s probably caused the huge metabolic disaster of the last generation with type 2 and obesity exacerbated by high carb, highly processed diets trying to avoid natural fats that actually do no harm.

HSSS said:

And there’s plenty of evidence now that doubts the validity of that advice. There’s a huge big thread titled something close to “cholesterol and statins“ by bulkbiker that links to massive amounts of information on it. Fundamentally the low fat advice is what’s probably caused the huge metabolic disaster of the last generation with type 2 and obesity exacerbated by high carb, highly processed diets trying to avoid natural fats that actually do no harm.

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If you look at the recommended daily average intake of fat - it's pretty low compare to what is being consumed by most on daily basis. Low-fat doesn't mean eating bellow the average recommended daily dose but not crossing that line and choosing monounsaturated, polyunsaturated fats (good fats). It also sounds the the type of carbs you're talking about is the simple carbs (bad ones) rather than complex carbs (good ones). Whole foods plant based diet contains mostly complex carbs rather than simple ones so I don't think eating buckwheat grouts, barley or quinoa would lead to obesity.

Jurgita V said:

If you look at the recommended daily average intake of fat - it's pretty low compare to what is being consumed by most on daily basis. Low-fat doesn't mean eating bellow the average recommended daily dose but not crossing that line and choosing monounsaturated, polyunsaturated fats (good fats). It also sounds the the type of carbs you're talking about is the simple carbs (bad ones) rather than complex carbs (good ones). Whole foods plant based diet contains mostly complex carbs rather than simple ones so I don't think eating buckwheat grouts, barley or quinoa would lead to obesity.

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Type 1 and mody are quite different to type 2. We are insulin resistant and carbs are carbs. The “good” ones spike me much the same as the “bad” ones according to my meter. Have you checked your meter against various foods?

Many of the good fats really aren’t so good for anyone. High omega 6’s unbalanced with omega 3 do a lot of damage (Inflammatory seed oils anyone?).

It sounds like you are accepting the eatwell dogma that has a lot of flaws both in terms of the base assumptions made that later studies are built on and the financial influences put into much of the “science”.

Fundamentally we each do our own level of study on the subject, test our theories on ourselves and see what works. Hopefully we all find the best answers for ourselves. In here and widely amongst those that have actually tried it a huge percentage of type 2 find lchf controls their diabetes better than other methods and does not raise cholesterol in damaging ways and in fact often lowers the worrisome triglycerides and raises the beneficial hdl.

HSSS said:

Type 1 and mody are quite different to type 2. We are insulin resistant and carbs are carbs. The “good” ones spike me much the same as the “bad” ones according to my meter. Have you checked your meter against various foods?

Many of the good fats really aren’t so good for anyone. High omega 6’s unbalanced with omega 3 do a lot of damage (Inflammatory seed oils anyone?).

It sounds like you are accepting the eatwell dogma that has a lot of flaws both in terms of the base assumptions made that later studies are built on and the financial influences put into much of the “science”.

Fundamentally we each do our own level of study on the subject, test our theories on ourselves and see what works. Hopefully we all find the best answers for ourselves. In here and widely amongst those that have actually tried it a huge percentage of type 2 find lchf controls their diabetes better than other methods and does not raise cholesterol in damaging ways and in fact often lowers the worrisome triglycerides and raises the beneficial hdl.

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Replacing bad carbs with good carbs will not do the job on its own. It is a slightly bigger picture of it all. It matters what you eat in general, in a long term. It takes a while for your body to adjust to any changes. As I mentioned before I found from different sources doing my research that high fat diet is associated with insulin resistance and I do experienced that too when I started to watch the amount of fat I eat. I talk from my own experience and over 10 years I have experimented a lot in a search for the best way to control my diabetes and look after myself. As for someone who is pre diabetic I highly suggest looking into dietary changes and possibility in reversing it.

I believe we all trying to find the best solutions for ourselves and if something is not working or feel like it could be improved is worth trying again and again. I am quite happy with the way my diabetes are managed at the moment or at least for the last years since going plant based and I can only share my experience with it because in a way I wish I did it sooner. My diabetes professor also saw the improvements. However, we're all different in some ways and I'm not saying that it will suit everyone, bust I'd say it's worth the shot.

Also, if you don't mind I would recommend to listen to the podcast by Rich Roll on Youtube interviewing two T1 diabetics on Truth on Carbs & Diabetes. Although there is something to take in for any type of diabetic. Hope you'll enjoy it

Dominy said:

Hi everyone, and thankyou for reading.

Got a generic letter delivered to me today, telling me the worrying news that I'm pre diabetic. Kind of surprised that I didn't get a call from the surgery to talk through the results but there you go.
I know this is down to my own poor food choices - Chocolate being my vice, and I am just eager to hear from others who have found themselves in my position. I'm a 43 year old woman, not particularly overweight, vegetarian who eats only occasional dairy, very active (I'm a cyclist) very rarely drink alcohol. Thanks in advance!

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Lots of good advice so far, but I just wanted to add: don't blame yourself. You played Russian Roulette with your genetics, as we all do, and you got the bullet. Someone who isn't predisposed to diabetes can eat as much junk as they like. They'll keep piling on weight, but they'll never develop the condition.

You're carbohydrate intolerant, just like some people are lactose or gluten intolerant. It isn't their fault, and it isn't ours. They avoid lactose and gluten. We avoid carbohydrate, if we want to manage this with minimal or no medication.

Right now, you have a relatively mild case and a thoroughly manageable condition. It's bound to be a worry when you first get the news, but it'll quickly settle down into being your 'normal.'

Just another hello and welcome,

I like so many others wasn't told when I was pre-diabetic- having said that the advice I would have been given would not have helped me at all unless I found this site earlier.

I felt like it was the end of my life and was in despair. the amazing people on here helped me so much. While I an't say with honesty that I like going v very low carb I can say it is the first time I have lost weight without dramatically lowering my calories and doing a lot of exercise. mentally my approach to food is a lot healthier in the sense I only count carbs so don't worry about working out exactly how much things like meat, fish and cheese weigh. It is also the only time I can say that I can easily stop when I have eaten enough. I feel saited. If I eat more carbs I don't get that.

it gets easier and here you will find all the information and help you need.

good luck and welcome.

Dominy said:

Thankyou so much for this wonderful response. Its definitely something I will be referring back to.
Such a lot of great information. I am really grateful for the time you took and its indeed reassuring to know that its not all doom and gloom. I just feel foolish for eating so much sugary **** and kind of using the pandemic to justify it as some sort of "self care", where because the world is so stressful, I have carte blanche to eat what I wish and **** the consequences. "I deserve it!"
D'oh. Please keep in touch with me as I could really do with some guidance through all this!

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Don't blame yourself. I'm in the same position. I was diagnosed in August after my vision went blurry. Out of control blood sugars, t2dm.
I am so glad I came to this forum. I am controlling the diabetes with a low carb way of eating. My husband and sister have also adopted it and we're all looking less wobbly as a result and not feeling hungry.
Lockdown is what tipped me over the edge, I was processing grief and other stresses and just had that I don't care anymore attitude.
I now consider the diagnosis as a really important wake up call. It really took three or four weeks to accept the situation (the blurred vision hung around for 6 weeks and I got a bit low) but then I felt fab.
Good luck, you're in good company.