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Type 1 Spikes after carbs

Poosecat

Poosecat

Well-Known Member
Messages
68
Location
Bristol
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
A quick question. I have recently been having a lower amount of carbs than usual in my diet. (A specific choice I made). Most of my carb intake comes from fruit and yogurt - so quite sugary, rather than starchy foods.

I've noticed that when I do have starchy foods e.g a wholemeal roll I have a huge blood glucose spike (15ish) despite counting the carbs and bolusing accordingly.

Is it possible that my body is now not used to starchy carbs and this is what is causing the spikes?

I'm a biology teacher and as far as I'm aware, chemically a carb is a carb once hydrolysed into glucose, BUT I know there are so many variables at play with us diabetics.

Any thoughts??
 
It sounds like it could be physiological insulin resistance caused by eating a lower amount of carbs than usual for you.

Take a look at this thread :)

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/low-carb-but-high-sugars-advice-please.123659/

Eating too low carbs can affect insulin sensitivity. Its the reason I avoid going too low carb as I currently have very good sensitivity.

You can add more carbs over the day or, if you don't want to do that, you might need to increase your ratios. Obviously do this cautiously if you choose to do it, and test lots.
 
Poosecat said:
A quick question. I have recently been having a lower amount of carbs than usual in my diet. (A specific choice I made). Most of my carb intake comes from fruit and yogurt - so quite sugary, rather than starchy foods.

I've noticed that when I do have starchy foods e.g a wholemeal roll I have a huge blood glucose spike (15ish) despite counting the carbs and bolusing accordingly.

Is it possible that my body is now not used to starchy carbs and this is what is causing the spikes?

I'm a biology teacher and as far as I'm aware, chemically a carb is a carb once hydrolysed into glucose, BUT I know there are so many variables at play with us diabetics.

Any thoughts??
Click to expand...

Poosecat - Firstly, I am not T1, however, having read the forums for almost 4 years, I am comfortable to say that, for many people, not all carbs are the same. Several, albeit the ones that come immediately to mind are T2s, find grain based products to be more of a blood glucose rocket fuel than even frank sugar.

Secondly, I believe that many people are grain intolerant - not necessarily coelic, but maybe gluten, or some other aspect intolerant.

Others find rice, or potato to impact them similarly.

If you are enjoying your new way of eating, then perhaps some further testing would be useful.
 
@Poosecat You could also experiment with advance bolusing. It's a very useful tool if used carefully.

If grains were more rocket fuel than sugar, we'd be using them to treat hypos, DCUKMod ;) Of course, Type 2 is a very different condition from Type 1.

Tagging @Odin004 as he improved his sensitivity by upping carbs slightly :) And his level of carbs wasn't very low, proving physiological insulin resistance can happen even then.
 
Poosecat said:
A quick question. I have recently been having a lower amount of carbs than usual in my diet. (A specific choice I made). Most of my carb intake comes from fruit and yogurt - so quite sugary, rather than starchy foods.

I've noticed that when I do have starchy foods e.g a wholemeal roll I have a huge blood glucose spike (15ish) despite counting the carbs and bolusing accordingly.

Is it possible that my body is now not used to starchy carbs and this is what is causing the spikes?

I'm a biology teacher and as far as I'm aware, chemically a carb is a carb once hydrolysed into glucose, BUT I know there are so many variables at play with us diabetics.

Any thoughts??
Click to expand...
I agree with @azure, especially on the advance bolusing front. It plays a huge part in keeping my post-prandial levels in check and minimising spikes as much as possible.

I've recently started eating breakfast again, and bran flakes - what a disaster they are for me. Advertised as high in fibre and extremely low on the GI scale, they cause me spikes to 15mmol/l and higher! I get round that by eating them 35 minutes after I've taken my bolus. It might seem like a lot of hassle, and tbh quite extreme just for a bowl of cereal, but the end result is a minimal spike to about 9mmol/l and I'm back in range less than an hour later.

I like to have zero limitations on my diet, and with a bit of work and pre-planning - it is achievable. I adopt the advanced bolus technique for virtually all carbs with the exception of those that have a high fat content: lasagne, macaroni cheese, that sort of dish.

I think the reason you're not seeing spikes from fruit and yoghurt is because the yoghurt fat content is dampening the spikes that would typically be seen from the fructose content of the fruits.

You might be interested to play with your food combinations because of the aforementioned fat impact. A wholemeal roll with lettuce and ham would spike me higher and faster than that of cheese, lettuce and mayo for instance.
 
Hi @Poosecat

Food intolerances play a surprisingly large part in how our body reacts to digested food.
Have you ever been tested for anything like Coeliac (although there is a disappointing number of false negatives in Coeliac testing, so a negative result is not conclusive).

http://www.diabeticlivingonline.com/food-to-eat/nutrition/gluten-and-diabetes-there-connection

I also found this link interesting, since is suggests that various allergies have an autoimmune effect. which can lead to raised blood glucose and elevated heart rate, including all the usual reactions we might expect.
https://www.adwdiabetes.com/articles/allergies-and-diabetes

When you say you have been eating lower carb than usual, would you say that you have been in ketosis? You mentioned eating carbs mainly from yoghurt and fruit, and if you have been eating enough of those to stay out of ketosis, then physiological insulin resistance won't be a factor for you - it takes a sustained amount of ketosis before you would develop physiological insulin resistance (think weeks or months on a diet where approx 10% of calories come from carbs) before you would develop physiological insulin resistance. But if you want to check that out, here is an article explaining what it is, and how it develops.
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/does-eating-low-carb-cause-insulin-resistance/

Hope that helps!
 
Brunneria said:
Hi @Poosecat

Food intolerances play a surprisingly large part in how our body reacts to digested food.
Have you ever been tested for anything like Coeliac (although there is a disappointing number of false negatives in Coeliac testing, so a negative result is not conclusive).

http://www.diabeticlivingonline.com/food-to-eat/nutrition/gluten-and-diabetes-there-connection

I also found this link interesting, since is suggests that various allergies have an autoimmune effect. which can lead to raised blood glucose and elevated heart rate, including all the usual reactions we might expect.
https://www.adwdiabetes.com/articles/allergies-and-diabetes

When you say you have been eating lower carb than usual, would you say that you have been in ketosis? You mentioned eating carbs mainly from yoghurt and fruit, and if you have been eating enough of those to stay out of ketosis, then physiological insulin resistance won't be a factor for you - it takes a sustained amount of ketosis before you would develop physiological insulin resistance (think weeks or months on a diet where approx 10% of calories come from carbs) before you would develop physiological insulin resistance. But if you want to check that out, here is an article explaining what it is, and how it develops.
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/does-eating-low-carb-cause-insulin-resistance/

Hope that helps!
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for the info. Definitely eating enough carbs to stay out of ketosis. About 20/30g per meal. Maximum 45g. I've just cut out starchy accompaniments - potatoes, rice, pasta etc. Thought it would help control, but now it so sure. Still trying to get my head around carb counting in prep for a pump. I use a libre and freak out when I see the spikes on the graph!
 
noblehead said:
Wouldn't like to say, but agree with @azure & @GrantGam on the benefits of pre-bolusing to reduce postprandial spikes.

The author of the book Think like a Pancreas wrote an article called Strike the Spike which is worthy of a read, here it is if you want to take a look:

https://www.diabetesselfmanagement....blood-glucose-management/strike-the-spike-ii/
Click to expand...

Many thanks. I'm reading think like a pancreas now so will check it out. Suddenly after 20 years, I'm trying to get fully clued up!
 
GrantGam said:
I agree with @azure, especially on the advance bolusing front. It plays a huge part in keeping my post-prandial levels in check and minimising spikes as much as possible.

I've recently started eating breakfast again, and bran flakes - what a disaster they are for me. Advertised as high in fibre and extremely low on the GI scale, they cause me spikes to 15mmol/l and higher! I get round that by eating them 35 minutes after I've taken my bolus. It might seem like a lot of hassle, and tbh quite extreme just for a bowl of cereal, but the end result is a minimal spike to about 9mmol/l and I'm back in range less than an hour later.

I like to have zero limitations on my diet, and with a bit of work and pre-planning - it is achievable. I adopt the advanced bolus technique for virtually all carbs with the exception of those that have a high fat content: lasagne, macaroni cheese, that sort of dish.

I think the reason you're not seeing spikes from fruit and yoghurt is because the yoghurt fat content is dampening the spikes that would typically be seen from the fructose content of the fruits.

You might be interested to play with your food combinations because of the aforementioned fat impact. A wholemeal roll with lettuce and ham would spike me higher and faster than that of cheese, lettuce and mayo for instance.
Click to expand...

I do try to advance bolus. Breakfast dose has to be an hour before to avoid spikes!! Thanks for the info. Didn't think of the fat content inhibiting carb digestion.
 
Poosecat said:
Many thanks. I'm reading think like a pancreas now so will check it out. Suddenly after 20 years, I'm trying to get fully clued up!
Click to expand...

It is a great book.

Poosecat said:
Still trying to get my head around carb counting in prep for a pump.
Click to expand...

If you've not done the DAFNE course register with the following, it's an on-line carb counting course and by all accounts it's very good:

https://www.bertieonline.org.uk/



Just one other thing @Poosecat (and another book recommendation:)), a book that comes highly recommended by the pump users here is Pumping Insulin by John Walsh & Ruth Roberts, I purchased it pre-pump and was pleased that I did, tbh some of it didn't make sense but once I'd started pumping it all came together.
 
Poosecat said:
I do try to advance bolus. Breakfast dose has to be an hour before to avoid spikes!! Thanks for the info. Didn't think of the fat content inhibiting carb digestion.
Click to expand...
I have to split my morning bolus. Some 20 min before low carb bf and more an hour later. It stop saying the cortisol/ adrenaline/ DP rise
 
Poosecat said:
I use a libre and freak out when I see the spikes on the graph!
Click to expand...

We're chucking book recommendations at you left, right and centre, poosecat, but, if you're using libre , another useful one is Sugar Surfing by Stephen Ponder. He's an American endo who is also T1, and the book is about using cgm. Mainly based on dexcom/medtronic but a lot of it's applicable to libre too. Taught me a lot about sensible use of libre in the months after I first started using it.
 
Poosecat said:
A quick question. I have recently been having a lower amount of carbs than usual in my diet. (A specific choice I made). Most of my carb intake comes from fruit and yogurt - so quite sugary, rather than starchy foods.

I've noticed that when I do have starchy foods e.g a wholemeal roll I have a huge blood glucose spike (15ish) despite counting the carbs and bolusing accordingly.

Is it possible that my body is now not used to starchy carbs and this is what is causing the spikes?

I'm a biology teacher and as far as I'm aware, chemically a carb is a carb once hydrolysed into glucose, BUT I know there are so many variables at play with us diabetics.

Any thoughts??
Click to expand...
I agree with the other posters but my findings are that if I have zero carb meal I have to bolus for the protein and fat as much as I would for carbs sometimes but...even if I have a small amount of carbs 10 - 30g say I don't need to bolus for protein at all. I don't eat really low carb so no physiological IR and I have good sensitivity - I think it must just be the be methods of digestion? wholegrain or brown anything provides me with a slow release of glucose which does cause a spike but over a 4-5 hours period it comes down I like this as it means I dont have to eat between breakfast and lunch. I am learning at the moment and have a good breakfast routine but seems to start to go up and down after that :/

Sent from my SM-G900F using Diabetes.co.uk Forum mobile app
 
I feel like a bit of a fraud. Look at my graph this morning after a bowl of porridge! My ratio is 2:5 in the mornings and I have to bolus an hour before. Worked today, but other days it goes nuts! Pah!
8770c2634c1f9f314d18ad5927ba7b97.jpg
 
Poosecat said:
I feel like a bit of a fraud. Look at my graph this morning after a bowl of porridge! My ratio is 2:5 in the mornings and I have to bolus an hour before. Worked today, but other days it goes nuts! Pah!
8770c2634c1f9f314d18ad5927ba7b97.jpg
Click to expand...
Your not a fraud lol today diabetes is behaving itself :) I have started making notes of when it goes nuts - because it does for me too! I think it's possibly hormonal which I know is true but I seem to also get IR a little bit after hard weight exercise - I think it's associated with muscle soreness. There are so many factors it's unreal have a good day!

Sent from my SM-G900F using Diabetes.co.uk Forum mobile app
 
Bon83 said:
Your not a fraud lol today diabetes is behaving itself :) I have started making notes of when it goes nuts - because it does for me too! I think it's possibly hormonal which I know is true but I seem to also get IR a little bit after hard weight exercise - I think it's associated with muscle soreness. There are so many factors it's unreal have a good day!

Sent from my SM-G900F using Diabetes.co.uk Forum mobile app
Click to expand...

Thank you - you too
 
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