Statin side effects all in the mind !

Ultramum · May 3, 2017

A study in the Lancet has concluded that patients suffer side effects from statins due to a 'nocebo' effect. They experience them because they expect them.

They are calling for the side effects NOT to be listed due to this.

The study compared a dosage of 10mg of Atorvastatin vs a placebo where the rate of muscle aches and pains reported was the same for both arms of the trial.

My first thought was that 10mg of Atorvastatin was only a very small dosage.

http://www.express.co.uk/life-style...-side-effects-life-saving-statins-cholesterol

The Express doesn't give much info on the background of the trial but via the Hindustan Times there is this info ...

"The trial was funded by Pfizer, which markets atorvastatin under the trade name Lipitor."

hankjam · May 3, 2017

https://www.theguardian.com/society...tations-not-the-drugs-nocebo#comment-97753206

another view....

psignathus · May 3, 2017

The thing is, I was suffering from a poor memory which was a standing joke years before I knew that it was a side affect of statins. now two years after stopping my statins my memory is much improved. they will churn out any old **** to sell you their wares.

astle9 · May 3, 2017

so they are saying keep the plebs in the dark and they will not know what is happening to them, i am totally convinced that my joint issues are due to statins but due to heart problems i am loathe to come off them.

Dollylolly · May 3, 2017

I came off mine because of memory problems and joint and muscle pain.
I then discover that all over 40s should be given them regardless of baselines cholesterol???? (Scotland)
I'm still wanting answers and none have been given.

raun01 · May 3, 2017

Side affects of Stains meets placebo very interesting

tricia · May 3, 2017

I have just been told that my recent painful 'small bowel spasms' were possibly a side effect of my statin and my metformin that I take for my type2 diabetes!. The doctor told me that the mix of the two 'can lead sometimes to different types of pain'. Has anyone else had the same effects as me?. I have been diabetic since october 2000, so maybe(!?!) I should expect different things to happen?.

Deleted Account · May 3, 2017

Dollylolly said:
I came off mine because of memory problems and joint and muscle pain.
I then discover that all over 40s should be given them regardless of baselines cholesterol???? (Scotland)
I'm still wanting answers and none have been given.

My consultant (in England) told me statins were standard for anyone over 40 with diabetes.
However, she also told me research has only been done to show the effects of statins on "unfit" people. Not entirely sure what this means but, as I am a regularly gym goer who is not overweight and has no problems with blood pressure or cholesterol, I chose to save the NHS some money and go statin free.

noblehead · May 3, 2017

Interesting @Ultramum

The 'statins is good/bad' news just never goes away, must be quite confusing for those who take them or are considering in doing so.

Bluetit1802 · May 3, 2017

This is what NICE has to say about prescribing statins to diabetics for primary prevention of CVD.:

Primary prevention for people with type 2 diabetes
1.3.26 Offer atorvastatin 20 mg for the primary prevention of CVD to people with type 2 diabetes who have a 10% or greater 10‑year risk of developing CVD. Estimate the level of risk using the QRISK2 assessment tool. [new 2014]

Primary prevention for people with type 1 diabetes
1.3.23 Consider statin treatment for the primary prevention of CVD in all adults with type 1 diabetes. [new 2014]

1.3.24 Offer statin treatment for the primary prevention of CVD to adults with type 1 diabetes who:

are older than 40 years or
have had diabetes for more than 10 years or
have established nephropathy or
have other CVD risk factors. [new 2014]

1.3.25 Start treatment for adults with type 1 diabetes with atorvastatin 20 mg. [new 2014]

https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg...the-primary-and-secondary-prevention-of-cvd-2

ickihun · May 3, 2017

I've restarted my atorvastatin 20mg today. I have mild heart disease and if they are any help. I want it.
Not sure what imput statins have on reversing heart disease but I'm still not able to exercise the way I'm used to.
Til then I will take whatever help they give.

Nicksu · May 3, 2017

Bluetit1802 said:
This is what NICE has to say about prescribing statins to diabetics for primary prevention of CVD.:

Primary prevention for people with type 2 diabetes
1.3.26 Offer atorvastatin 20 mg for the primary prevention of CVD to people with type 2 diabetes who have a 10% or greater 10‑year risk of developing CVD. Estimate the level of risk using the QRISK2 assessment tool. [new 2014]

Primary prevention for people with type 1 diabetes
1.3.23 Consider statin treatment for the primary prevention of CVD in all adults with type 1 diabetes. [new 2014]

1.3.24 Offer statin treatment for the primary prevention of CVD to adults with type 1 diabetes who:

are older than 40 years or

have had diabetes for more than 10 years or

have established nephropathy or

have other CVD risk factors. [new 2014]

1.3.25 Start treatment for adults with type 1 diabetes with atorvastatin 20 mg. [new 2014]

https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg...the-primary-and-secondary-prevention-of-cvd-2

It would have been nice to actually have a discussion with my doctor as to the potential risks, the diabetes clinic just said "cholesterol slightly raised - if patient willing - statins advised" and a prescription dumped at my GP's. I wouldn't have minded so much if the data they were using wasn't 4 months old when the letter came through. Suffice to say the prescription may have been filled, but none have been taken. They can squawk when they see me next week - I'll take my Milk Thistle thank you instead.

Dark Horse · May 3, 2017

There is a good analysis of this study and the media reporting of it here:- http://www.nhs.uk/news/2017/05May/Pages/Statin-side-effects-have-been-overstated-says-study.aspx

It concludes:-

This is a complex study that provides a plausible explanation for the difference in reports of adverse effects of statins in RCTs and observational studies, some of which have suggested as many as 1 in 5 people get side effects from statins.

However, we need to be aware of some limitations and unanswered questions:

When people knew they were taking statins, they were more likely to report muscle pain than those not taking statins. But they were less likely to report muscle pain than in the first phase of the study, when they didn't know whether they were taking statins or placebo. We don't know why this is.
Almost everyone in the study was white European (95%) and male (81%). We don't know if the results hold true for people in other ethnic groups or women.
Because people weren't prompted to report concerns about specific adverse events or side effects, it's possible these may have been underestimated. Also, the study only looked at one statin, and at a dose lower than those often used today.

The unanswered questions mean there may be other explanations for the differences in reporting of adverse effects, other than the "nocebo" effect.

fletchweb · May 3, 2017

I stopped taking statins years ago after they were starting to have a negative impact on my quality of life - interesting thing - when I was on 10 MG no problem but when it was increased to 20 - I discovered I could no longer do the physical activities I normally do - The sad thing was I did not have high cholesterol levels to begin with - it was the old "you have been living with diabetes for so long it's like you have already survived a heart attack" - direct quote from my doctor based on some pharmaceutical industry sponsored study that was done. He also made me go to a nutritionist who tried to increase my carbs and lower my fat intake. So - I stopped taking my statins and didn't change my food (group) intake - 3 - 4 months later I was back to my regular physical activities and my cholesterol levels actually dropped.
But having said that I'm sure there are other people who have the exact opposite stories and think I've gone mad

RosieLKH · May 3, 2017

I stopped statins because I was getting leg cramps at night. Off them the leg cramps went. The nurse persuaded me to try different ones, so I did and the legs cramps came back. I've stopped these now and the legs cramps have gone.

Doriand · May 3, 2017

helensaramay said:
My consultant (in England) told me statins were standard for anyone over 40 with diabetes.
However, she also told me research has only been done to show the effects of statins on "unfit" people. Not entirely sure what this means but, as I am a regularly gym goer who is not overweight and has no problems with blood pressure or cholesterol, I chose to save the NHS some money and go statin free.

One statistic which concerns me is in the U.S. the MOST prescribed drugs are cholesterol lowering drugs, while CVD is STILL the leading cause of death in that country. While it's everyone's choice to take statin drugs or not, anyone who are considering it should do the research regarding its side effects, effectiveness and wether you really need it or your simply contributing to the profit margins of pharmaceutical companies.

ickihun · May 4, 2017

Doriand said:
One statistic which concerns me is in the U.S. the MOST prescribed drugs are cholesterol lowering drugs, while CVD is STILL the leading cause of death in that country. While it's everyone's choice to take statin drugs or not, anyone who are considering it should do the research regarding its side effects, effectiveness and wether you really need it or your simply contributing to the profit margins of pharmaceutical companies.

Because statin doesn' t stop cvd on its own. Its not a wonder drug. Its a drug that supports healthy living and a good diet. An aid.

ann34+ · May 4, 2017

Dark Horse said:
There is a good analysis of this study and the media reporting of it here:- http://www.nhs.uk/news/2017/05May/Pages/Statin-side-effects-have-been-overstated-says-study.aspx

It concludes:-

This is a complex study that provides a plausible explanation for the difference in reports of adverse effects of statins in RCTs and observational studies, some of which have suggested as many as 1 in 5 people get side effects from statins.

However, we need to be aware of some limitations and unanswered questions:

When people knew they were taking statins, they were more likely to report muscle pain than those not taking statins. But they were less likely to report muscle pain than in the first phase of the study, when they didn't know whether they were taking statins or placebo. We don't know why this is.

Almost everyone in the study was white European (95%) and male (81%). We don't know if the results hold true for people in other ethnic groups or women.

Because people weren't prompted to report concerns about specific adverse events or side effects, it's possible these may have been underestimated. Also, the study only looked at one statin, and at a dose lower than those often used today.

The unanswered questions mean there may be other explanations for the differences in reporting of adverse effects, other than the "nocebo" effect.

That is very interesting - and surprising regarding it having so little racial diversity and so few women . Some years ago, I recall a doctor telling me, when i did not want statins, that most of the research which showed some small benefit at that time had been done on men, and that as i had a good TC to HDL ratio, was not overweight, was well controlled, etc i need not worry about not taking them. I had assumed that in the intervening years research would have a greater mix of participants, and equal numbers of men and women. The recent NICE guidelines, now i have read them, seem very draconian, and i cannot find much new evidence for benefit for women. Yet as a Type one woman i cannot go near the hospital without feeling harrassed because i will not take them.

Doriand · May 4, 2017

ann34+ said:
That is very interesting - and surprising regarding it having so little racial diversity and so few women . Some years ago, I recall a doctor telling me, when i did not want statins, that most of the research which showed some small benefit at that time had been done on men, and that as i had a good TC to HDL ratio, was not overweight, was well controlled, etc i need not worry about not taking them. I had assumed that in the intervening years research would have a greater mix of participants, and equal numbers of men and women. The recent NICE guidelines, now i have read them, seem very draconian, and i cannot find much new evidence for benefit for women. Yet as a Type one woman i cannot go near the hospital without feeling harrassed because i will not take them.

I share your concerns about feeling harassed because you choose not to take statin drugs. My doctor is 'strongly encouraging' me to take statin drugs not due to high cholesterol readings (never did a blood test) but simply due to my age (58). I also had been diagnosed with anxiety and depression and one of the listed side effect is ... depression

Doriand · May 4, 2017

fletchweb said:
I stopped taking statins years ago after they were starting to have a negative impact on my quality of life - interesting thing - when I was on 10 MG no problem but when it was increased to 20 - I discovered I could no longer do the physical activities I normally do - The sad thing was I did not have high cholesterol levels to begin with - it was the old "you have been living with diabetes for so long it's like you have already survived a heart attack" - direct quote from my doctor based on some pharmaceutical industry sponsored study that was done. He also made me go to a nutritionist who tried to increase my carbs and lower my fat intake. So - I stopped taking my statins and didn't change my food (group) intake - 3 - 4 months later I was back to my regular physical activities and my cholesterol levels actually dropped.
But having said that I'm sure there are other people who have the exact opposite stories and think I've gone mad

According to a study, your declining quality of life was simply "all in the mind" ...

Statin side effects all in the mind !

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