Statins. What happens if I don't take them?

Sanober said:

Donnellysdogs - I've just checked my readings for my last checkup in April at the Diabetologist.

(measured in mmol/L)
Chol 4.30 Range <5.00
Triglycerides 0.80 Range <2.30
HDL Chol 1.46 Range >100
LDL Chol (no result, just blank and no range shown either)
Chol/HDL ratio 2.9 (no range)

I have not a clue which of these is the most important ones to keep under control to be honest. Your guidance is appreciated.

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This is what I remember from reading on the internet last year, hope I remember it correctly.

HDL = Good colestrol
LDL = Bad colestrol
LDL should be lower than HDL

If I remember rightly, "total colestrol" is HDL + LDL, so in your case:
Total colestrol 4.3 - (HDL) 1.46 = 2.84.

If I remember correctly and got my figures right, you in a high risk of developing cardiovascular disease and probably why your GP asked you to consider going on statins.

There are those who can lower the HDL by dieting but (apparently) there are those who are unable to because their body produces too much LDL and need meds to correct it.

I think best thing for you is to ask your GP to explain the HDL-LDL ratio and the risk factors before you decide one way or another.

They don't normally measure LDL as it's expensive to do so you can use this equation. The Friedwald equation. see below for an explanation.
[LDL-chol] = [Total chol] - [HDL-chol] - ([TG]/2.2) where all concentrations are given in mmol/L.
in the case above LDL = 4.3-1.46 -(0.8/2.2)
LDL = 2.48

This formula isn't accurate in the case of very high triglycerides, when they really need to measure directly or very high HDL when another formula can be used.
(not the case here).

The cholesterol targets I work to I picked up from NICE guidelines in about 2005, I think, and are as follows (mmol/l):

Total cholesterol: below 5.18
HDL: above 1.04
Triglycerides: below 1.70, and the lower the better

LDL is, as Phoenix says, calculated. I think it is almost always higher than HDL because that's the way the quantities occur. My last one was calculated at 3.6, which is in the 'okay' range but could be better.

Triglycerides are the killers. The best I've ever had was 0.65 (after 18 months on Atkins!)

My print-outs also have a Total cholesterol:HDL ratio, which is what my doctor looks at particularly. My last one was 4.1, which is getting towards the top of the 'OK' range; I'm hoping it will be lower next time. Best ever was 3.3 - again, after 18 months on Atkins.

Viv 8)

Your body produces about 70% of it's own cholesterol, so the reason doctors put you on a statin is because dietary cholesterol has little to do with blood cholesterol. About 60% of heart attacks are in people with normal or low cholesterol. Now we are finding about 50% of heart attacks are in people with high insulin. Think about this for a minute. Most all diabetes drugs raise insulin. When's the last time your doctor checked your insulin levels? Probably never. Now researchers are saying high insulin is about equal in heart disease risk as cholesterol. Actually it's more - high insulin (over 10) puts you at 4.5 time risk and high cholesterol only about 2. If you have metabolic syndrome, 16 times risk. Many of type 2s here have metabolic syndrome, of which I am one too.

Statins lower cholesterol, may prevent heart attack, but don't decrease mortality. Think about that for a minute. Isn't preventing death the reason the doctors are prescribing statins? They are uninformed. The statistics they use to sell statins to their patients are grossly inflated and misquoted. You can take a suppliment (or just cinnamon) that will lower cholesterol and put you at 0 risk. Some statin side effects are quite bad and way under reported by doctors. At best, statins act like an asperin to prevent heart attack, a very expensive one at that. There are lots of books about the cholesterol hoax, I must have at least 10. Try this one written by an American astronaut called: Lipitor Thief of Memory. (It has so much information about statin drugs.)
Read these too: http://www.newswithviews.com/Ellison/shane17.htm
http://books.google.com/books?id=q14NJb ... &q&f=false

It may come to light that it's high insulin that's causing most heart attacks. In the US it's now estimated that 75% of the population over 40 have some level of insulin resistance. In the US children as young as 3 years old are being diagnosed with insulin resistance. As obesity has doubled in the UK in the last 8 years, I'd guess high insulin (from insulin resistance) is just about everywhere.

The anti-statin astronaut (a USAF doctor) is called Duane Graveline, and his website is at spacedoc.net. Very interesting reading!

Viv 8)

When I was taking simvastatin for a few months, I developed intense muscle pain. Not taking results in being well.
My latest (acceptable range)
total chol = 6.17 (0.0 - 5.19)
trigs = 1.29 (0.0 - 2.23)
HDL = 1.65 (>= 0.9)
calc LDL = 3.93 (0.0 - 3.35)
serum chol/HDL = 3.7 (0.0 - 4.9)

On diagnosis 11 years ago total chol = 7.6 & by diet (8 years medium GI + oat bran & Flora pro-v, then 3 years reduced carb) I have kept it around 5.2- 6 except when on simv it dropped to around 4.2. Perhaps I should increase the Flora.

I'd rather be well than take a drug that damages my health. The Drs accept that situation.

Perhaps I should increase the Flora.

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I've started taking the Benecol drinks which have the same stuff (as advised by my dietician). The peach flavour is nice and I don't think it can do me much harm. Just done another blood test do I'll find out if its done any good any day now.

Just to put my thoughts.

My cholestoral is currently around 4.9 which is just under what my GP beleives to be the guidling for Statins.

Last week he suggested that I start taking them, and I again said no. I have 100% trust in my GP as he knows me, and he knows my family. If at any point my level increases, I will not argue with him, but I did give in with the Rampril, and I do take Metformin. I have told him that at 37 years old, i do not want to rattle, but at the same time, as I trust him enough, if he pushes (with an increased level) I will listen to him.

all of this is my personal opinion, but hope it helps.

With hba tests we know that they give us an average reading of what our blood has been like for the last few months...

Is a cholesterol test checking what the blood is on that day, or is it for a period of time as well.....

As far as I know, DD, cholesterol is an 'at the time' test.

I'm having my next one on Monday, so if I remember I'll ask the nurse.

Mind you - pre-coffee, I'm unlikely to remember anything at all! :lol:

Viv 8)

I think you are right Viv. I have only once had a high cholesterol reading and was quite shocked . My GP commented that I had probably had a "fatty meal" the night before the test. and I remember thinking that this meant it only measured cholesterol on the day ..

We are all going to die one day and these drugs just make you so miserabl;e with the side effects in a lot of people so what the hell is the point in taking them , all you are doing is lining your GP's packets because they get an enhacement from the drug companies if they get you to take them . You certainly won't last any longer if you do take them. they have no real benefits according to the people that write all the books on them and I for one believe them . I would NEVER take them again.

As I understand it, It's not the overall level of cholesterol that is important. The primary concern is that HDL needs to be at least 3 times greater than LDL.
This is because the LDL absorbs the rubbish and HDL collects the LDL and returns it to the liver.
1 HDL collects 3 LDL.

Niacin increases the liver's production of HDL.
I've used 500mg niacin (taken nightly, as HDL is only produced whilst sleeping) and my cholesterol is considered fine.

PS: My doctor was unhappy about me taking Niacin initially and decided to investigate.
He later advised that whilst it is not recommended to stop statins, it was generally and unofficially believed that niacin does a better and safer job.

I suspect the Statin manufacturers would disagree. :evil:

I have Type 1 diabetes for 41 years. I have been taking Atorvastatin for a number of years. A few years ago they changed my prescription to Simvastatin. I refused point blank to take them as my mum had previously taken them and had side effects. I am almost certain the change was due to cost. Anyway it was a locum doctor I saw. She argued with me about the benefits etc. I said prove to me it is not a cost cutting exercise. With that she went and got another doctor. I told him I would not take them if they changed to Simvastatin. I was then given another prescription for Atorvastatin.
Yesterday I went to the Eye Clinic. The doctor said to keep my blood glucose levels under control, take my cholesterol and aspirin. Apparently it you don't do this your eyesight can be affected.
I feel some more research coming on as I didn't realise this was another reason to take these tablets. I thought it was for cardiovascular reasons.

I was advised by my consultant to stop my statins straight away. I have fibromyalgia which gives me chronic pains in muscles at the top of my legs....since being re-put back on statins (originally - needlessly as I did not have high levels), I have had chronic restless legs again at night and the pains in my legs were building up again. Stopped taking them and within 3 days my restless legs have gone and my pain is diminishing down the scale again....

I also met a lady last week at a meeting that I attend that was put on them she aid 14 years ago, needlessly....and has now 2 weeks ago got diagnosed with fibromyalgia....and also told to come off statins........

Statins do now warn more of 'myalgia', but it really makes me wonder if 'myalgia' is more connected to fibromyalgia....

My higher reading last time was taken after a weekend with visitors where there was an abundance of cream etc....which was why I wondered if it was an average over months of whether it wwas from that exact moment.....also....my last test was not a fasting one...so this time I will, and see whether my cholesterol does come down...got to wait 3 months though...

What happens if I don't take them?

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I was given them when first diagnosed within a week ,Put me back in hospital bad reaction
To this day have not taken one.

So answer from me is Nothing
cholesterol always been fine and dandy

Bob

Thanks for your really useful and informative post Dillinger which has really helped me to understand so much more, but I am a little puzzled by your comment " Your GP will be rewarded for getting you to take statins"...., although I must admit that the more I have read the more I wonder why they have been so intent on getting us take them, and why they continue to do so in the light of all the evidence that is stacking up against using them.

Can you, or anyone else, let me know how GP's are rewarded for getting us to take statins.

In my case I was prescribed 10mg simvastatin statin towards the end of 2005. I became increasingly crippled the longer I took it. I also started having some sort of acid reflux when I was sleeping which woke me and really burned my throat. Eventually the symptoms became so bad I stopped taking it. Miraculously the pains, weakness, and acid reflux disappeared.

On hearing this my GP expressed disapproval that I had stopped, and also suggested that we have to expect some aches and pains as we get older (somehow managing to ignore the fact that I had also told him the pains etc. had disappeared on ceasing the medication) and he then urged me to take an alternative, 20 mg Pravastatin, which I did. In less than a week I began to experience the same problems, which again worsened, so after a couple of weeks I stopped taking them. Again the symptoms disappeared.

Once again I received my GPs disapproval, and I was again urged to try yet another statin, but when I looked up the drug that he had prescribed I found it belonged to the same family as the previous ones I had taken.

By this time I felt that if the rest of my days on statins were to continue as my previous experiences, and possibly worse, I would prefer not to be around for too long, so I didn't use the prescription.

When the statins were prescribed my cholestral level was 5. I have more recently been advised by my Diabetic Nurse that the level for someone who has diabetes should be 2-4, but I still refuse to take them, and more so in the light of what I have read about them. I also feel my body would not reacted so viciously if they were not harmful to me.

Amazingly neither my GP nor my DN have ever mentioned to me the need for and benefits of CoQ10 within the body, but more worryingly they haven't mentioned it to my husband either who is on statins.

Pac

The practice gets a bonus from HMG for every patient with total cholesterol below 5. At least that's my understanding of it.

Ray