Still having trouble with spikes after eating no carbs...

[Indy1282]

Had a quarter of frittata today with bacon,onions and 2 small new potatoes and a 10g cereal bar - took 8 units and BS gone from 5.4 to 11.2 in an hour and rising rapidly ( libre )

I literally give up.

 

[Indy1282]

Now up to 13.8 and rapidly increasing..

 

[KK123]

Now up to 13.8 and rapidly increasing..

Hi Indy, I hope it starts to come down. Your post title states 'after eating no carbs' but obviously this meal did include carbs, is all of this a new thing though, ie, your insulin isn't working as it usually does with similar meals?

 

[karen8967]

Hi indy1282 it is probably the potatoes mine do exactly the same .also i would check your insulin x

 

[porl69]

Are you 100% sure you injected???? Maybe a change of insulin vial/pen would be on the cards. How long before you ate did you do your injection??

 

[Deleted Account]

Three points

1. Absolutely, no way, give up.
2. I recommend changing your insulin and your pen. They may not be working properly
3. If this is a common problem, talk to your diabetes team. It is what they are there for.

 

[JAT1]

When it's time for your next insulin, before your next meal, take a reading before injecting and add a correction dose, but it would be best if you call your doctor about this. Hopefully this sorts out soon.

 

[Indy1282]

Thanks. Sorry, I know I had carbs - just forgot to change the header...

Definitely injected, waited until my libre line started going down. I had the same meal last night and had a small spoke ( within 2 mmol) I guess I cant even have 20g of carbs before the evening then. I'm so ****** off at the moment - I hate how limiting this is.

I have spoken to my DSN and all she says it take more insulin - which I cant because that doesn't address the spike, it just means I go hypo later....

Edited by moderator for language

 

[MeiChanski]

Unfortunately I spike up too after a meal around 1.5-2hr mark but after the 4hrs my BG comes down. DAFNE taught me to give novorapid or your fast acting insulin a chance to work. In my case give novorapid a 4 hour window to work and if you're slightly high at your next meal is to add a correction along with my meal.

 

[Nexus6]

Potatoes? Cereal Bar? Onions (yes, onions have carbs). Did your frittata have a crust on it or was it only egg mixture?

Regardless of the rise in spite of the injection...that is not certainly not "no carbs".

If it was me, I would try a ZERO carb meal (like three scrambled eggs in some butter with chopped bacon for example) and compare results.

 

[porl69]

Thanks. Sorry, I know I had carbs - just forgot to change the header...

Definitely injected, waited until my libre line started going down. I had the same meal last night and had a small spoke ( within 2 mmol) I guess I cant even have 20g of carbs before the evening then. I'm so p*ssed off at the moment - I hate how limiting this is.

I have spoken to my DSN and all she says it take more insulin - which I cant because that doesn't address the spike, it just means I go hypo later....

Pre bolus - Inject maybe half hour before you eat so that when the food starts to get absorbed the insulin is there waiting for it .....BUT that would depend on what type of food was being eaten. With experience and getting it wrong on numerous occasions I can usually avoid the spikes with injecting anything upto 3/4 hour before I eat

 

[Deleted Account]

If it was me, I would try a ZERO carb meal (like three scrambled eggs in some butter with chopped bacon for example) and compare results.

Unfortunately, life is not that easy.
It is common to need to inject insulin for protein if we eat no or low carb meal.
There is a scientific term which describes this but I can't remember it. Sorry.

 

[db89]

Unfortunately, life is not that easy.
It is common to need to inject insulin for protein if we eat no or low carb meal.
There is a scientific term which describes this but I can't remember it. Sorry.

Gluconeogenesis - slower than carbs and usually only starts happening if skipping a few meals or not ingesting carbs for a few meals.

 

[Indy1282]

Unfortunately, life is not that easy.
It is common to need to inject insulin for protein if we eat no or low carb meal.
There is a scientific term which describes this but I can't remember it. Sorry.

Potatoes? Cereal Bar? Onions (yes, onions have carbs). Did your frittata have a crust on it or was it only egg mixture?

Regardless of the rise in spite of the injection...that is not certainly not "no carbs".

If it was me, I would try a ZERO carb meal (like three scrambled eggs in some butter with chopped bacon for example) and compare results.

I said further down that there were carbs in the meal. Zero carbs would not make any difference, I still need to inject for anything I eat. Nexus6 you are not Type 1 are you?

 

[Indy1282]

Pre bolus - Inject maybe half hour before you eat so that when the food starts to get absorbed the insulin is there waiting for it .....BUT that would depend on what type of food was being eaten. With experience and getting it wrong on numerous occasions I can usually avoid the spikes with injecting anything upto 3/4 hour before I eat

I do pre bolus - and wait for my line to go down, as said in my previous post. It's a very fine line because my BG starts dropping so my insulin is working but the food can take time to impact so if I wait too long I will go hypo while I'm eating or just after.

When I've done some testing with the Libre I am finding that sometimes by BG doesn't start rising for over an hour after starting go eat.

 

[Deleted Account]

When I've done some testing with the Libre I am finding that sometimes by BG doesn't start rising for over an hour after starting go eat.

Have you tried "split bolusing"?
This is often useful (but tedious) for foods that are high in fat which slows down the carb absorption. For me, this will include meals like pizza and curry. I take half of the insulin dose before I eat and the other half an hour later. This is easier with an insulin pump which can spread out the bolus from one instruction but I know some people do the same with injections.

 

[Indy1282]

Have you tried "split bolusing"?
This is often useful (but tedious) for foods that are high in fat which slows down the carb absorption. For me, this will include meals like pizza and curry. I take half of the insulin dose before I eat and the other half an hour later. This is easier with an insulin pump which can spread out the bolus from one instruction but I know some people do the same with injections.

Yes i do split bolus for some meals.
I'm happy that I'm using the correct amount of insulin for this meal because my BG came back to a good number a couple hours after ( see pic )

 

[tim2000s]

Gluconeogenesis - slower than carbs and usually only starts happening if skipping a few meals or not ingesting carbs for a few meals.

It's a bit more complex than that. Eggs contain specific amino acids that cause almost immediate glucose rises in many people, caused by the liver dumping glucose because it's expecting endogenous insulin to be released. It's not widely discussed in dietary circles, but this type of effect can double or triple the effects of any small amount of carbs.

 

[endocrinegremlin]

Seems to me your ratio is out.

 

[Circuspony]

I've got a 4 hour timeline with Novorapid too. It's at its most challenging in the middle of the day when I sometimes feel I might as well have injected water!