Success with moderate calorie diet?

[NonStop]

Hi there,

After reading a fair bit about the newcastle diet, I wanted to know if people have had success with reversing diabetes via a more moderate calorific deficit rather than the more extreme deficits presented in the studies.

I know Roy Taylor himself seems to argue that moderate calorie diets would work; "The essential point is that substantial weight loss must be achieved. The time course of weight loss is much less important." - http://www.ncl.ac.uk/media/wwwnclac...re/files/reversing-type2-diabetes-leaflet.pdf

But I really would be keen to know if people here on this forum have seen success with a more moderate calorific deficit?

Thanks in advance!

 

[SWUSA_]

Yes- I was eating 1200 calories a day for about 6 weeks and had a quick couple of pound weight loss followed with a small gout flare and lack of energy. I went up to 1400 to 1600 calories per day now for about three weeks. You can see a detailed discussion of my diet in the thread "Protein levels". I am at a very slow weight loss of 1 to 2 pounds a month now. My motto is moderation in all things-especially due to several health conditions that impact my diet. My HA1c just went from 7.5 three months a ago when I joined the forum to 7.0 last week. (I am in the USA that would be a change of 58 to 53 if you are in the UK). My couple of pounds of weight loss also puts me back in the overweight range rather than on the lower edge of obese where I have been hovering for several years. I have also posted several days worth of my diet under" Diabetes discussion-Type 2-What have you eaten today?".I added a 10 minute walk after lunch to several days a week after reading an article about it here on the forum.The important thing is to eat to your meter.( Just ask if you do not know what that means.) And limit carbohydrate intake to levels that give you good blood glucose readings. I eat 80 to 120 carbs a day trying to stay on the low end of that range. I never eat more than 40 carbs at one time and always with protein and/ or fat to slow down the spike in blood sugar. I am still on metformin and insulin but we will see what happens as I continue to control my carb intake. (With the exception of a few extra carbs for Christmas of course!)

 

[SWUSA_]

Hope that helps-I think there are several others taking a moderate approach as well.

 

[kokhongw]

The main focus of the approach is to mimic the results seen in bariatric surgery. Hence "Any pattern of eating which brings about substantial weight loss over a period of time will be effective. Different approaches suit different individuals best."

This would include intermittent fasting or multi-day fast that results in sustainable ketosis and fat loss. But the level of reversibility depends/differs for each of us. Many may be able to reach normal glucose/HbA1c levels. Very few, if any reports restoration of first phase insulin response and norm glucose response as measured by OGTT.

All the best.

 

[NonStop]

Yes- I was eating 1200 calories a day for about 6 weeks and had a quick couple of pound weight loss followed with a small gout flare and lack of energy. I went up to 1400 to 1600 calories per day now for about three weeks. You can see a detailed discussion of my diet in the thread "Protein levels". I am at a very slow weight loss of 1 to 2 pounds a month now. My motto is moderation in all things-especially due to several health conditions that impact my diet. My HA1c just went from 7.5 three months a ago when I joined the forum to 7.0 last week. (I am in the USA that would be a change of 58 to 53 if you are in the UK). My couple of pounds of weight loss also puts me back in the overweight range rather than on the lower edge of obese where I have been hovering for several years. I have also posted several days worth of my diet under" Diabetes discussion-Type 2-What have you eaten today?".I added a 10 minute walk after lunch to several days a week after reading an article about it here on the forum.The important thing is to eat to your meter.( Just ask if you do not know what that means.) And limit carbohydrate intake to levels that give you good blood glucose readings. I eat 80 to 120 carbs a day trying to stay on the low end of that range. I never eat more than 40 carbs at one time and always with protein and/ or fat to slow down the spike in blood sugar. I am still on metformin and insulin but we will see what happens as I continue to control my carb intake. (With the exception of a few extra carbs for Christmas of course!)

Intriguing. Definitely shows that moderation can work. I plan to lose about 14lbs myself, hopng for about 1lb per week fat loss.

The main focus of the approach is to mimic the results seen in bariatric surgery. Hence "Any pattern of eating which brings about substantial weight loss over a period of time will be effective. Different approaches suit different individuals best."

This would include intermittent fasting or multi-day fast that results in sustainable ketosis and fat loss. But the level of reversibility depends/differs for each of us. Many may be able to reach normal glucose/HbA1c levels. Very few, if any reports restoration of first phase insulin response and norm glucose response as measured by OGTT.

All the best.

True, although theoretically it seems that any length of time to result in substantial fat loss would still do the job. I am somewhat lucky, I've only been diagnosed with prediabetes (fasting blood glucose of 6.1mmol/L). I'd like to see it come back to under 5.5mmol/L. So I imagine a fair amount of fat loss should do it.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Intriguing. Definitely shows that moderation can work. I plan to lose about 14lbs myself, hopng for about 1lb per week fat loss.



True, although theoretically it seems that any length of time to result in substantial fat loss would still do the job. I am somewhat lucky, I've only been diagnosed with prediabetes (fasting blood glucose of 6.1mmol/L). I'd like to see it come back to under 5.5mmol/L. So I imagine a fair amount of fat loss should do it.

Providing that when you reach your target weight you can sustain it. That is the difficult bit. Go back to previous eating habits and the weight will return.

 

[catapillar]

My HA1c just went from 7.5 three months a ago when I joined the forum to 7.0 last week. ... I am still on metformin and insulin

A hba1c of 7 (53) while a great improvement, is still definitively diabetic, the cut off being 6.5 (48).

And you're taking insulin, so the strives you making in controlling blood sugar cant really be seen as anything like reversal of diabetes. But it's great you're happy with the contol, sounds like you're working really hard.

OP was asking whether people had had success in reversing type 2 diabetes with moderate calorie diet.

I wanted to know if people have had success with reversing diabetes via a more moderate calorific deficit rather than the more extreme deficits presented in the studies.

@SWUSA_ answered

Yes

Really? With a hba1c of 53 and taking insulin you are answering yes to "have you had success with reversing diabetes"? It's obvious you have had success with improving your health, but not with reversing diabetes, so far.

 

[serenity648]

A hba1c of 7 (53) while a great improvement, is still definitively diabetic, the cut off being 6.5 (48).

And you're taking insulin, so the strives you making in controlling blood sugar cant really be seen as anything like reversal of diabetes. But it's great you're happy with the contol, sounds like you're working really hard.

OP was asking whether people had had success in reversing type 2 diabetes with moderate calorie diet.


@SWUSA_ answered

Really? With a hba1c of 53 and taking insulin you are answering yes to "have you had success with reversing diabetes"? It's obvious you have had success with improving your health, but not with reversing diabetes, so far.

She has reversed the progression, and her HbA1c is coming down So she IS reversing it. It takes stime, but she is going in the right direction.

 

[bobrobert]

Is it sustainable over the long term? Calorie reduction doesn't work long term therefore carb reduction is better?

 

[douglas99]

Is it sustainable over the long term? Calorie reduction doesn't work long term therefore carb reduction is better?

Very easily sustainable.
I think you are making the mistake of thinking you need to eat low calorie for life, (like low carb), but the difference is you don't.
If you do manage to reverse diabetes by weight loss, it's relatively easy to maintain the weight loss, and eat a balanced diet, without worrying about meals out, overly 'carby' choices, and a bit of weight gain can be easily fixed by simply reducing the calories again. (But still eating some carbs. just less)
My preference now is a mediterranean diet, which gives a good variety of options for me.

I found the Newcastle diet works for me, whereas low carb (when I tried it) was a bit of a nightmare when I was out and about and couldn't find low carb food easily, and the first few carby foods seemed to produce larger spikes than I was happy with, as like many my body built up physiological insulin resistance.
And of course, if weight does creep up, I'm simply back onto the Newcastle diet until I'm back to my target weight, so some allowance for periods like christmas is built in.
(Although this year I did a few weeks of 800 calorie a day before christmas, so I had a bit of slack built in already)

I hope this helps explain it.

 

[Brunneria]

Is it sustainable over the long term? Calorie reduction doesn't work long term therefore carb reduction is better?

I think it depends - a lot - on the person, the diet, their expectations, and their ability to be 'moderate'.

Professor Taylor of the Newcastle Diet has said that following 8 weeks of the ND dieters should expect to have to eat approx 25% less food than they did before the diet, in order to maintain the benefit.

That would be easy if the individual had previously existed on pies, chips and junk food.
But far less easy if the individual had been already controlling their food for decades and had previously been limiting their food intake to something like 12-1500 calories a day.

 

[NonStop]

Cheers for the extra info, as I thought it will be individual specific, I think I'll have to wait and see how it goes. I do agree as others have said that it seems like a more manageable diet than low-carb.

 

[douglas99]

I think it's worth remembering the context under which the Newcastle diet came into being, and the conditions under which it seems to have successfully reversed type 2 diabetes.

It was targeted at patients who could have benefited from bariatric surgery.
By definition, the obese, who, like me, became obese from overeating, and hence a reduction in calories would have been medically advisable.

Bariatric surgery wouldn't be advised for those already on a low calorie diet, and still struggling, so the results of the Newcastle diet may not be as predictable, although it has been suggested by Professor Taylor that it is still worth trying for those who do appear to be 'slim', as internal fat may not be as pronounced, but still may be an issue to some.

I tried it, as I was obese, it was successful, but to be honest, it was worth it for the difference the weight loss alone made to my lifestyle, and the lasting impact it has made on my view to the amount of food I now eat, as it is considerably less.

 

[Freema]

Reversed ? Well that I don't know not
Yet at least my diabetes is under strict calorie control But still not conqered .... reversed in my view is that my diabetes is gone and when I eat like just What I like it still stick its grimm face up

 

[bobrobert]

Very easily sustainable.
I think you are making the mistake of thinking you need to eat low calorie for life, (like low carb), but the difference is you don't.
If you do manage to reverse diabetes by weight loss, it's relatively easy to maintain the weight loss, and eat a balanced diet, without worrying about meals out, overly 'carby' choices, and a bit of weight gain can be easily fixed by simply reducing the calories again. (But still eating some carbs. just less)
My preference now is a mediterranean diet, which gives a good variety of options for me.


I hope this helps explain it.

What is a balanced diet? What you are describing is IMO a weight loss diet but not a diet for controlling diabetes.

 

[walnut_face]

What is a balanced diet? What you are describing is IMO a weight loss diet but not a diet for controlling diabetes.

Weight Loss may assist with diabetes management.

"By losing weight, people with type 2 diabetes can become less insulin resistant, and they’re able to use insulin better."

https://www.endocrineweb.com/conditions/type-2-diabetes/type-2-diabetes-how-lose-weight

 

[douglas99]

What is a balanced diet? What you are describing is IMO a weight loss diet but not a diet for controlling diabetes.

I don't believe a balanced diet would be described by many as a weight loss diet, but if you re-read the post you have quoted, I have said I eat a mediterranean diet, which I don't believe is necessary a weight loss diet either, but seems to be very effective at controlling weight, and very effective at managing diabetes, after a low calorie diet.
I hope that helps, if you are thinking of trying a low calorie diet, as this post is about.
It is very effective for many it seems.

 

[NonStop]

Weight Loss may assist with diabetes management.

"By losing weight, people with type 2 diabetes can become less insulin resistant, and they’re able to use insulin better."

https://www.endocrineweb.com/conditions/type-2-diabetes/type-2-diabetes-how-lose-weight

The newcastle diet, if correct, infers weight loss actually reverses diabetes.

 

[douglas99]

The newcastle diet, if correct, infers weight loss actually reverses diabetes.

Not infers.
A very low calorie diet, under the correct circumstances, does reverse diabetes in some instances.
I seem to be proof of that, as do others on this forum.

 

[bulkbiker]

Cheers for the extra info, as I thought it will be individual specific, I think I'll have to wait and see how it goes. I do agree as others have said that it seems like a more manageable diet than low-carb.

Personally I find low carb very easy to manage whether cooking at home or eating out. If there really is absolutely nothing suitable (which I have never found to be the case) I would just not eat... which due to being fat adapted is pretty easy.