Support thread for those of us who dont lose weight

Only started the LCHF diet 7 days ago.
I thought you automatically lost weight when you went on the low carb high fat diet?
If my weight hasn't gone down after 2 months of this diet it goes out the window.

No2D said:

A few months ago I read this thread looking for ideas about how to lose weight. I decided to try the old fashioned calorie restriction method and continue on a low carb diet. At this point my carbs bounce around btwn 40 and 90 and I'm trying to keep protein at around 50 - 80 then control total calories in with how much fat I'm eating. The fat is the variable because carbs and protein are fixed. Based on my height and weight I'm keeping a calorie deficit of -300 to -500 daily below sustaining.

As a newbie at this I'm wondering what others think of this approach? Is calorie restriction too simplistic? I've read Dr. Fung's posts about CI-CO and don't disagree with him. Insulin has to be low enough to prevent glucose from turning to fat, and allow fat to be released from fat cells. I believe I need to create a situation such that my body needs energy and the only place to get it is bodily fat stores. With low carbs and adequate protein it seems like this might work.

I'm told I can loose weight but I'll just gain it back again (by my endocrinologist no less), inferring I'm wasting my time! Also, heredity has a lot to do with it. I've read people store fat with different levels of efficiency; some will just look at a picture and pack it on, while others can eat anything.

Starvation mode is another one of my concerns. I understand dropping lower than 800 calories can trigger starvation mode. Have any of you experienced this? And how to tell, then how to break out of it if it happens.

I've tried fasting and didn't see any negatives so maybe starvation mode takes days or weeks to kick in? On Dr. Fung's site I did read about a guy that fasted for a year. After researching it, and reading the original medical report, found many other examples of long term fasts. So why not just stop eating for 2 months, burn the fat, and get a new wardrobe?

Anyway, looking ahead, I'd like to avoid a situation that would put the weight back on after working so hard to loose it. It seems that understanding what I'm up against and preparing mentally is really, really important. Support, my way of looking at things, getting back on the wagon, or ???

So, besides what you all think of calorie restriction, what kinds of weight loss diets work? In the posts it sounds like many have tried several types and have lots of real life experiences to call on.

Any feedback you might have will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

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What a fab post.
For some of us, scraping off a few pounds really is like standing on a shifting board with a constantly changing centre of balance.

Can I ask how your 3-500 calorie deficit is working at the moment? And how long have you been on it?

If you have read Dr Fung's site then you will know that what is normally considered 'starvation mode' is the result of long term calorie deficit, not from fasting. Although 'longterm = a variable piece of string) With fasting, the metabolic rate usually increases a little. So you are more likely to go into 'starvation mode' on your steady calorie deficit of 400 cals, than by fasting for extended periods.

As for when 'starvation mode' kicks in? Well, that depends on how absurdly efficient your body is at noticing you are on a low calorie diet, and lowering its metabolic rate to conserve energy. I have seen men on this site claim that this hasn't happened to them after months of dieting. But it happens to me within days. Certainly less than a week. But then, they have more muscle mass (which requires more energy to maintain) and I did a stupid ultra low (330 cals a day) diet in my teens, and I think that is what taught my body to tailor its energy usage down to the minimum, and then raise it again when food becomes available again. Certainly nowadays I can spend weeks on 1200 cal a day, and weeks on 2,500 cal a day (I did it earlier this year) and my weight only altered by 3 pounds over the 5 months I was experimenting. I bet I would have survived famines in a rural medieval economy extremely well!

I think calories play a part, even though they are an inaccurate measurement of energy that works better in a lab than in our bodies. However, there are so many other things going on in the human body (hormones, stress, emotional wellbeing, water intake, type of energy source, individual health issues, climate, age, etc. etc.) that a way of eating that reduces weight in one person won't work for everyone. Personally, I kind of switch off as soon as someone starts explaining that calories in and calories out (CICO) are key, because if that is their level of understanding, then we don't really have much to discuss. I agree that calories are a factor. I agree that it may have worked wonderfully for them. But if anyone assumes that Basal Metabolic Rate and CICO are the Be All and End All, then they live on a different planet from me.

I have been puzzling over all of this too. In the end I bought Jason Fung's "The Obesity Code" and am currently reading it through very carefully because I really want to understand the weight loss process. He does talk at length about the problem of regaining weight, slowing metabolism, etc. Reducing calorie intake does not look like a good idea in the long term.
He has convinced me that low carbing combined with intermittent fasting is the best thing for me to try. I never thought I would be able to fast, but since I started low-carbing I have not had hunger pangs or weakness so I am hopeful that I will cope with it.
My understanding from this book is that our weight loss/gain is driven by hormones, particularly insulin and cortisol. The insulin issues are dealt with by the low carb and fasting approach. The cortisol is to do with stress and sleep.
SLEEP is a vital and often overlooked part of the puzzle when it comes to weight management and diabetes.

Today I am 75.7 Kg. I have just been checking my weekly weigh in posts and found that I have been stuck at over 76 Kg since last May when I briefly dipped down to 75.8 Kg. Yesterday I was feeling hungry whilst out shopping and this corresponds to a 0.3 Kg weigh loss overnight. I have noticed this in the past that when you feel hungry the body is in ketogenic mode and burning fat. The temptation is to keep snacking when you feel a little hungry and you do this almost subconsciously. I am going to try more intermediate fasting to see if I can maintain the 75 Kg and maybe drop some more weight.

Art Of Flowers said:

I have noticed this in the past that when you feel hungry the body is in ketogenic mode and burning fat.

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My experience is very different.
When I am firmly in ketosis I have very little appetite and have no desire to snack.

@No2D - an addendum to my earlier post. I like this graphic of Dr Ted Naiman's and it explains the difference between a weight loss keto diet as opposed to a maintenance version:

serenity648 said:

I managed a swim today. 15 mins of gentle breast stroke. It felt good to move in the water, and stretch out. I went mid afternoon, when the pool is almost empty, except for a few octogenarians who I see every week, and always say hello to me.

If i mention the spoons theory will you all know what I mean?

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Yes, the Spoons Theory is a great analogy.

Sorry if this is a briefer response than I would like, @No2D but it is a busy morning, and if I don't respond now, I may forget later!

My 5 month experiment wasn't really very organised. I gave up gluten in October last year, and spend several months feeling progressively better because of that. At the same time, I did months of intermittent fasting. The fast routine varied, but usually one evening meal a day, Mon-Fri with a coffee substitute and cream for breakfast. Weekends I would have a protein only breakfast, then an evening meal (also known as Warrior Fasting). I would calculate that there were approx 1000-1500 cals a day. And I only lost 2 pounds in 5 weeks of doing that strictly. The rest of the time I was more flexible, but still did IR regularly. That silly-small weight loss was a real bummer. I am obese, and my BMR would indicate that I was in calorie deficit by around 1000 calories a day for those 5 weeks. That was rather frustrating.

Then in the spring there was a thread on here about doing the DietDoctor menus (20g carbs a day, masses of fat), and I decided to try that. It was actually FAR more food than I could face on a daily basis. I just can't cope with 3 meals a day any more! lol. So I soon started skipping breakfast, easing up on some of the high fatness, and introducing more greenery. However, I stayed well under 20g carbs (what with skipping some meals), and the calories worked out anywhere from 1500-2500 a day. There is quite a lot of variation in the fat levels from meal to meal.

My weight fluctuated for the 3-4 months I was doing the DD strictly, but it stayed within the same 3 pounds either way, that I had been during my Warrior Fasting.

Then, more recently, I have been eating more carbs (since being gluten free, I have found my carb tolerance has risen a bit, so long as they are gluten free carbs). I am still usually under 60g carbs a day, often under 30g. But I have been eating to my appetite, and not bothering to monitor anything other than blood glucose. Anyway, one day I decided to tot up calories and it was absurdly low. I think 1150, and then only that high because I had eaten a blob of icecream on a whim.

but guess wot? Still the weight remains stuck in that same 3 pound range.
Through it all my exercise of dog walking has remained constant.

I may be the perfect living example of having a set point.
But I am DEEPLY RELUCTANT to reduce calories to Newcastle Diet levels. Been there. Did that in the 80s and 90s and I have no intention of doing it again and screwing up my metabolism further. Basically, I think that it was those diets which have led to my body being able to adjust its energy usage to precisely match the energy intake.

Somewhat annoying. But I would much rather be this weight whilst enjoying food and life, eating delicious low carb food in the quantities that appeal - than constantly stressing and worriting and counting every macro, in the desperate hope that I might shave off a pound. It just isn't worth it, in my humble opinion. Always accepting that everyone else's mileage will vary on that perspective. This is just such a long game, and I shudder when I think of the damage that yoyo dieting does to the body, over decades.

You asked about insulin resistance measuring, estimating and lowering.
The Big 3 ways I know to lower IR are, in order of effectiveness:
- avoiding carbs and intermittent fasting
- exercise (works very well, but has to be fairly strenious, done regularly, and only works for a few hours after each exercise session, with a long term downward trend if muscle and fitness levels improve)
- drugs like Metformin

Oh, and you may find this thread by BB interesting. I am finding it fascinating.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/thr...had-a-fasting-insulin-test-on-the-nhs.124804/
Sorry, got to dash.

Still losing on low carb, low/medium fat with no fruit or veg just multivitamins.
Metformin longterm and orilstat given but use sparingly and only use if I have a fatty food.
I'm losing 2lb per week, unless water retention fills me up but then when gone I lose more. Back into size 20-22size clothes from 24-26size. Looking forward to xmas now that kids are in full-time school.
I'm at appointments or errans daily so out for a walk most days. Even in pain. Still no swimming thou.
I cannot believe I'm losing weight constantly. Me?
I don't truely know how.
I'm satisfied on low carb low fat or medium fat. No hunger unless carbs creep in.

Editted to add : I've lost 3.5stones to date

serenity648 said:

great news. Are you still going ahead with the surgery now you are losing weight?

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Yes. I still have loads more to loose. For my height I'm still 10stones overweight.
Will try and get off insulin after op too. I'll try my hardest!

In the last chance saloon here. I have tried almost everything as far as losing weight is concerned.
LCHF, 16/8, fasting for 4 days, Atkins, Calorie Restriction.
Nothing has worked for weight loss, even though I've been trying for over 2 years.

I have a couple of things left to try. 1000 calory limit per day by eating nothing but Cream Cheese and Walnuts, (taken from the Atkins Diet book).
My other option is another long term fast. The last time I tried this I only lasted 4 days as I was just getting weaker, and had to stop. So I don't hold much confidence about that working.

I believe some of us people have a broken Metabolic System and our Hormones are also broken so it is Impossible for us ever to lose weight no matter what we try.

We can control our Blood Sugar levels but that's as much as were going to get out of the LCHF diet.

Very disheartening but we have to accept it. Otherwise we will drive ourselves crazy trying to do something about weight loss.

frankbegbie said:

In the last chance saloon here. I have tried almost everything as far as losing weight is concerned.
LCHF, 16/8, fasting for 4 days, Atkins, Calorie Restriction.
Nothing has worked for weight loss, even though I've been trying for over 2 years.

I have a couple of things left to try. 1000 calory limit per day by eating nothing but Cream Cheese and Walnuts, (taken from the Atkins Diet book).
My other option is another long term fast. The last time I tried this I only lasted 4 days as I was just getting weaker, and had to stop. So I don't hold much confidence about that working.

I believe some of us people have a broken Metabolic System and our Hormones are also broken so it is Impossible for us ever to lose weight no matter what we try.

We can control our Blood Sugar levels but that's as much as were going to get out of the LCHF diet.

Very disheartening but we have to accept it. Otherwise we will drive ourselves crazy trying to do something about weight loss.

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How much do you have to lose?

bulkbiker said:

How much do you have to lose?

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30lb would be great, 40/50 would be better.

I'm at the end of my 4 weeks of the Atkins diet and I'm still the same.
I even stopped having a drink on Saturday night to give it every chance of working but it hasnt.

I'm having a few beers tonight as I'm a bit ****** off to be honest.

I'll be living off Walnuts and Cream Cheese all next week; it's my final attempt at losing weight.
I'm just going through the motions really. In my heart I already know it won't work but I have to go through with it to the bitter end so I can say I tried EVERYTHING.

I'll probably be sticking to the LCHF diet afterwards because it does make sense, but I'll be adding a bit more veg than I'm having at the moment, but I'm not going to deny myself a drink now and then if I want one.

If you don't get the added bonus of losing weight as well as getting your diabetes in order it's very hard to be so enthusiastic about it as someone who is losing a lot of weight.

Struggling to get that 3kgs off for bariatric surgery.
Scales are totally broke now. It was reading 50kgs more. Humf.
So no scales til tuesday.

New article in the Huffington Post - I'm sure all our members who have been fat shamed by HCPs or others will relate to a lot of the personal stories in it:

https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/everything-you-know-about-obesity-is-wrong/

Probably too much to hope that a***hats like Katie Hopkins will ever learn the lesson though.

Some pills may promise to help you in losing weight, however high adverse reactions make these a dreaded decision. The most trusted option right now is to use human growth hormone.
HGH helps you indeed, but you must not rush the use with high amounts. Before you get started using any growth hormone treatment, It is advisable to check with your physician prior to using HGH injections and need to know on HGH for weight loss.

I just found this thread. I'm sorry so many of us seem to be in the same boat but I'm glad I'm not alone.

In 3.5 months of LCHF, cutting out sugar, swimming, etc. I've only lost 13 pounds. Still a loss but hardly the "Weight is just falling off!" that some people talk about. It's all belly fat and I'm menopausal, and I know that doesn't help.

Reduced my A1C from 11.8% to 6.1% in that time? Who cares?
Reduced my blood glucose from 16.2 mmol to the 4-5 mmol range? Unimportant!
It's all about the weight loss!