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Support thread for those of us who dont lose weight

Discussion in 'Weight Loss and Dieting' started by serenity648, Nov 28, 2016.

  1. frankbegbie

    frankbegbie · Well-Known Member

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    Only started the LCHF diet 7 days ago.
    I thought you automatically lost weight when you went on the low carb high fat diet?
    If my weight hasn't gone down after 2 months of this diet it goes out the window.
     
  2. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    What a fab post.
    For some of us, scraping off a few pounds really is like standing on a shifting board with a constantly changing centre of balance.

    Can I ask how your 3-500 calorie deficit is working at the moment? And how long have you been on it?

    If you have read Dr Fung's site then you will know that what is normally considered 'starvation mode' is the result of long term calorie deficit, not from fasting. Although 'longterm = a variable piece of string) With fasting, the metabolic rate usually increases a little. So you are more likely to go into 'starvation mode' on your steady calorie deficit of 400 cals, than by fasting for extended periods.

    As for when 'starvation mode' kicks in? Well, that depends on how absurdly efficient your body is at noticing you are on a low calorie diet, and lowering its metabolic rate to conserve energy. I have seen men on this site claim that this hasn't happened to them after months of dieting. But it happens to me within days. Certainly less than a week. But then, they have more muscle mass (which requires more energy to maintain) and I did a stupid ultra low (330 cals a day) diet in my teens, and I think that is what taught my body to tailor its energy usage down to the minimum, and then raise it again when food becomes available again. Certainly nowadays I can spend weeks on 1200 cal a day, and weeks on 2,500 cal a day (I did it earlier this year) and my weight only altered by 3 pounds over the 5 months I was experimenting. I bet I would have survived famines in a rural medieval economy extremely well!

    I think calories play a part, even though they are an inaccurate measurement of energy that works better in a lab than in our bodies. However, there are so many other things going on in the human body (hormones, stress, emotional wellbeing, water intake, type of energy source, individual health issues, climate, age, etc. etc.) that a way of eating that reduces weight in one person won't work for everyone. Personally, I kind of switch off as soon as someone starts explaining that calories in and calories out (CICO) are key, because if that is their level of understanding, then we don't really have much to discuss. I agree that calories are a factor. I agree that it may have worked wonderfully for them. But if anyone assumes that Basal Metabolic Rate and CICO are the Be All and End All, then they live on a different planet from me. :)
     
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  3. mariavontrapp

    mariavontrapp Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I have been puzzling over all of this too. In the end I bought Jason Fung's "The Obesity Code" and am currently reading it through very carefully because I really want to understand the weight loss process. He does talk at length about the problem of regaining weight, slowing metabolism, etc. Reducing calorie intake does not look like a good idea in the long term.
    He has convinced me that low carbing combined with intermittent fasting is the best thing for me to try. I never thought I would be able to fast, but since I started low-carbing I have not had hunger pangs or weakness so I am hopeful that I will cope with it.
    My understanding from this book is that our weight loss/gain is driven by hormones, particularly insulin and cortisol. The insulin issues are dealt with by the low carb and fasting approach. The cortisol is to do with stress and sleep.
    SLEEP is a vital and often overlooked part of the puzzle when it comes to weight management and diabetes.
     
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  4. Art Of Flowers

    Art Of Flowers I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Today I am 75.7 Kg. I have just been checking my weekly weigh in posts and found that I have been stuck at over 76 Kg since last May when I briefly dipped down to 75.8 Kg. Yesterday I was feeling hungry whilst out shopping and this corresponds to a 0.3 Kg weigh loss overnight. I have noticed this in the past that when you feel hungry the body is in ketogenic mode and burning fat. The temptation is to keep snacking when you feel a little hungry and you do this almost subconsciously. I am going to try more intermediate fasting to see if I can maintain the 75 Kg and maybe drop some more weight.
     
  5. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    My experience is very different.
    When I am firmly in ketosis I have very little appetite and have no desire to snack.
     
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  6. Indy51

    Indy51 Type 2 · Expert

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    @No2D - an addendum to my earlier post. I like this graphic of Dr Ted Naiman's and it explains the difference between a weight loss keto diet as opposed to a maintenance version:

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    Yes, the Spoons Theory is a great analogy.
     
  8. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Sorry if this is a briefer response than I would like, @No2D but it is a busy morning, and if I don't respond now, I may forget later! :D

    My 5 month experiment wasn't really very organised. I gave up gluten in October last year, and spend several months feeling progressively better because of that. At the same time, I did months of intermittent fasting. The fast routine varied, but usually one evening meal a day, Mon-Fri with a coffee substitute and cream for breakfast. Weekends I would have a protein only breakfast, then an evening meal (also known as Warrior Fasting). I would calculate that there were approx 1000-1500 cals a day. And I only lost 2 pounds in 5 weeks of doing that strictly. The rest of the time I was more flexible, but still did IR regularly. That silly-small weight loss was a real bummer. I am obese, and my BMR would indicate that I was in calorie deficit by around 1000 calories a day for those 5 weeks. That was rather frustrating.

    Then in the spring there was a thread on here about doing the DietDoctor menus (20g carbs a day, masses of fat), and I decided to try that. It was actually FAR more food than I could face on a daily basis. I just can't cope with 3 meals a day any more! lol. So I soon started skipping breakfast, easing up on some of the high fatness, and introducing more greenery. However, I stayed well under 20g carbs (what with skipping some meals), and the calories worked out anywhere from 1500-2500 a day. There is quite a lot of variation in the fat levels from meal to meal.

    My weight fluctuated for the 3-4 months I was doing the DD strictly, but it stayed within the same 3 pounds either way, that I had been during my Warrior Fasting.

    Then, more recently, I have been eating more carbs (since being gluten free, I have found my carb tolerance has risen a bit, so long as they are gluten free carbs). I am still usually under 60g carbs a day, often under 30g. But I have been eating to my appetite, and not bothering to monitor anything other than blood glucose. Anyway, one day I decided to tot up calories and it was absurdly low. I think 1150, and then only that high because I had eaten a blob of icecream on a whim.

    but guess wot? Still the weight remains stuck in that same 3 pound range.
    Through it all my exercise of dog walking has remained constant.

    I may be the perfect living example of having a set point.
    But I am DEEPLY RELUCTANT to reduce calories to Newcastle Diet levels. Been there. Did that in the 80s and 90s and I have no intention of doing it again and screwing up my metabolism further. Basically, I think that it was those diets which have led to my body being able to adjust its energy usage to precisely match the energy intake.

    Somewhat annoying. But I would much rather be this weight whilst enjoying food and life, eating delicious low carb food in the quantities that appeal - than constantly stressing and worriting and counting every macro, in the desperate hope that I might shave off a pound. It just isn't worth it, in my humble opinion. Always accepting that everyone else's mileage will vary on that perspective. This is just such a long game, and I shudder when I think of the damage that yoyo dieting does to the body, over decades.

    You asked about insulin resistance measuring, estimating and lowering.
    The Big 3 ways I know to lower IR are, in order of effectiveness:
    - avoiding carbs and intermittent fasting
    - exercise (works very well, but has to be fairly strenious, done regularly, and only works for a few hours after each exercise session, with a long term downward trend if muscle and fitness levels improve)
    - drugs like Metformin

    Oh, and you may find this thread by BB interesting. I am finding it fascinating.
    http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/thr...had-a-fasting-insulin-test-on-the-nhs.124804/
    Sorry, got to dash. :)
     
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    #148 Brunneria, Aug 23, 2017 at 8:11 AM
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
  9. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

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    Still losing on low carb, low/medium fat with no fruit or veg just multivitamins.
    Metformin longterm and orilstat given but use sparingly and only use if I have a fatty food.
    I'm losing 2lb per week, unless water retention fills me up but then when gone I lose more. Back into size 20-22size clothes from 24-26size. Looking forward to xmas now that kids are in full-time school.
    I'm at appointments or errans daily so out for a walk most days. Even in pain. Still no swimming thou.
    I cannot believe I'm losing weight constantly. Me?
    I don't truely know how.
    I'm satisfied on low carb low fat or medium fat. No hunger unless carbs creep in.

    Editted to add : I've lost 3.5stones to date
     
    #149 ickihun, Sep 17, 2017 at 12:22 PM
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
  10. serenity648

    serenity648 · Guest

    great news. Are you still going ahead with the surgery now you are losing weight?
     
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  11. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

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    Yes. I still have loads more to loose. For my height I'm still 10stones overweight.
    Will try and get off insulin after op too. I'll try my hardest!
     
  12. frankbegbie

    frankbegbie · Well-Known Member

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    In the last chance saloon here. I have tried almost everything as far as losing weight is concerned.
    LCHF, 16/8, fasting for 4 days, Atkins, Calorie Restriction.
    Nothing has worked for weight loss, even though I've been trying for over 2 years.

    I have a couple of things left to try. 1000 calory limit per day by eating nothing but Cream Cheese and Walnuts, (taken from the Atkins Diet book).
    My other option is another long term fast. The last time I tried this I only lasted 4 days as I was just getting weaker, and had to stop. So I don't hold much confidence about that working.

    I believe some of us people have a broken Metabolic System and our Hormones are also broken so it is Impossible for us ever to lose weight no matter what we try.

    We can control our Blood Sugar levels but that's as much as were going to get out of the LCHF diet.

    Very disheartening but we have to accept it. Otherwise we will drive ourselves crazy trying to do something about weight loss.

     
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  13. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    How much do you have to lose?
     
  14. frankbegbie

    frankbegbie · Well-Known Member

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    30lb would be great, 40/50 would be better.

    I'm at the end of my 4 weeks of the Atkins diet and I'm still the same.
    I even stopped having a drink on Saturday night to give it every chance of working but it hasnt.

    I'm having a few beers tonight as I'm a bit ****** off to be honest.

    I'll be living off Walnuts and Cream Cheese all next week; it's my final attempt at losing weight.
    I'm just going through the motions really. In my heart I already know it won't work but I have to go through with it to the bitter end so I can say I tried EVERYTHING.

    I'll probably be sticking to the LCHF diet afterwards because it does make sense, but I'll be adding a bit more veg than I'm having at the moment, but I'm not going to deny myself a drink now and then if I want one.

    If you don't get the added bonus of losing weight as well as getting your diabetes in order it's very hard to be so enthusiastic about it as someone who is losing a lot of weight.
     
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  15. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

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    Struggling to get that 3kgs off for bariatric surgery.
    Scales are totally broke now. It was reading 50kgs more. Humf.
    So no scales til tuesday. :(
     
  16. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
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    Frankbegbie - I'm sorry you're having such a mammoth struggle to trim up. I'm not going to make any dietary suggestions, but ask if you have had a good broad blood panel done, including hormone? In particular, have you had your thyroid tested and your vitamins?

    Sometimes lask of weight loss can be a symptom of something else.
     
  17. Indy51

    Indy51 Type 2 · Expert

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  18. Indy51

    Indy51 Type 2 · Expert

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    Probably too much to hope that a***hats like Katie Hopkins will ever learn the lesson though.
     
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  19. Autumntide

    Autumntide Don't have diabetes · Member

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    Some pills may promise to help you in losing weight, however high adverse reactions make these a dreaded decision. The most trusted option right now is to use human growth hormone.
    HGH helps you indeed, but you must not rush the use with high amounts. Before you get started using any growth hormone treatment, It is advisable to check with your physician prior to using HGH injections and need to know on HGH for weight loss.
     
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  20. neithskye

    neithskye Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I just found this thread. I'm sorry so many of us seem to be in the same boat but I'm glad I'm not alone.

    In 3.5 months of LCHF, cutting out sugar, swimming, etc. I've only lost 13 pounds. Still a loss but hardly the "Weight is just falling off!" that some people talk about. It's all belly fat and I'm menopausal, and I know that doesn't help.

    Reduced my A1C from 11.8% to 6.1% in that time? Who cares?
    Reduced my blood glucose from 16.2 mmol to the 4-5 mmol range? Unimportant!
    It's all about the weight loss! ;)
     
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