surely there not all myths about high fats

jack412 said:

your link says high protein, I don't think anyone here is suggesting high protein and it's a self reporting survey without any substance
http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/extras/low carb/Restricting carbs as first approach to treating T2 Diabetes Feinman et al.pdf

American diabetic association ( http://www.professional.diabetes.org/)
http://www.professional.diabetes.org/admin/UserFiles/0 - Sean/dc132042 FINAL.pdf

Evidence is inconclusive for an ideal amount of total fat intake for people with diabetes;
therefore, goals should be individualized; fat quality appears to be far more important
than quantity.
In people with type 2 diabetes, a Mediterranean-style, MUFA-rich eating pattern may benefit
glycemic control and CVD risk factors and can therefore be recommended as an effective
alternative to a lower-fat, higher-carbohydrate eating pattern.

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zand said:

Hi izzzi. I've just posted a video about this very subject if you are interested

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/an-interesting-low-carb-video.67446/

I'll have a look at your links this evening when I have more time. Thanks for those

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phoenix said:

High protein/fat?
It depends upon how high a fat intake you actually have, unless it's very high fat , if its also low carb then it will necessarily be quite high protein.
The French had a detailed investigation into a wide variety of various diets a couple of years ago.
The highest fat diet they considered was first stage Atkins* (and the Cohen diet )
First stage Atkins was 59% fat content with 35% from protein . This is slightly less fat than the PRCM document linked to by Izzzi but the protein is still considered high.
For women they suggested that it amounted to more than 2g/kg of weight (ie normal weight) They term the regime as High fat, high protein, low carbohydrate. ( the French home grown low carb diet, Dukan is much higher in Protein at 53% for women in stage 1, they really don't like that one ) The French nutritional guideline say 0.83g/kg .for protein
I won't go into the whole paper it's very long and detailed and evaluates many weight reduction diets, mostly unfavourably.

In the summary report there are two tables, one for women, one for men that are probably easy enough to understand. They include info on the vitamin and mineral contents . Atkins covers the first three lines of the grid. If someone is eating this type of pattern then it might be worth looking at where there may be too little (or too much) and look for foods that can 'plug' the gap.
The pink highlight is for deficiencies and the yellow one for where there is a higher than the normally recommended amount. Red writing for sodium stands for more than 5g
Inca is what French population actually eat according to national surveys
ANC are French guideline amounts
BMN are average nutritional requirements
(so French women on average eat 39% fat and the guidelines say 35-40% )
http://www.afssa.fr/Documents/NUT2009sa0099.pdf
*This is the paper from which the French derived the proportions and nutrients of the Atkins diet . It has a couple of sample menus that presumably they used for analysis.
http://www.colorado.edu/intphys/Class/IPHY3700_Greene/pdfs/atkins/freedman.pdf


If you do read French or want to use Google translate their is a section in the full report specifically on low carb diets P 52. with lots of references to studies , mostly in English.
There are also lots of graphs and diagrams comparing the various diets visually. This is a very long PDF.
http://www.afssa.fr/Documents/NUT2009sa0099.pdf

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Enclave said:

Well the LCHF diet has got my weight down along with my sugar levels and cholestral levels .. But I do not do high protein.. I am a vegetarian.. So have lots of plant based foods along with dairy .. I would say I am quite low in protein.. But have masses of energy now.
I became very ill when I followed my DBN eating advice called the eat well plate .. It made me put more weight on and my sugar went through the roof! So I know what works for me

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AndBreathe said:

I don't want to get into a long or scientific post here, but just want to say a couple of things.

Firstly, one man's high fat is another's moderate. How are you defining hight fat? (No, I haven't gone to your links.)

Secondly, the few words I did read talked about; ".............Research makes it clear that abnormal blood lipid (fat) levels have a strong correlation with the risk of coronary artery disease, heart attack and coronary death. In turn, abnormal blood lipids are related to what you eat. ............." Similarly, the use of abnormal is very subjective.

That's it.

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phoenix said:

@izzzi
I suspect you are looking at the last paper in English. I actually only gave that for where the macronutrient breakdowns come from on the French research rather than anything else.
That particular paper is quite old and doesn't necessarily fully reflect recent research , for example the large recent study on the Med diet (and also the Cretan diet that did well in the Seven Countries study was 40% fat)
What the paper seems to favour and calls a moderate fat diet at 25% is quite low rather than moderate. (it's actually 10% lower than the French lower guideline amount and 5% less than the UK guidelines)

I think that the paper gives some indications as to why a low carb diet can work for weight loss. There is also no doubt that if someone is over weight and loses that weight then they also tend to reduce insulin resistance and reduce risk factors for other diseases.
But it's also true that other diets show success including ones which restrict fat to tiny amounts such as the Ornish diet . There is research to confirm this . You also just have to go away from these forums to say the Mcdougall forums or vegan websites or do some of the Coursera nutritional courses and read the forums there, you find these types of diets also have extremely fervent advocates with their own accounts to tell.
On the other hand, if you look at nutrional analysis (including the paper we are talking about), then these very low fat diets can also have their nutritional deficiencies .

Personally, I feel that the type of fats in a diet are important and I worry that a very high fat diet means that there is no room for a full complement of nutrients .(including fibre)
(Im sticking in the middle with the Med!)

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AndBreathe said:

One mans "excessive greed" is another's.............

Have you watched the Professor Sikaris presentation on blood tests for cv health? It's a decent watch.

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Avocado Sevenfold said:

"Excessive greed"

Not a phrase I would expect to read on a support forum, to be honest. Disappointed.

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