SWOLLEN FEET, ANKLES AND LOWER LEGS OUT OF CONTROL

[BaliRob]

I realise that I am coming to the end of the road and that, with Type 2 for some 20 years (who knows?), very serious Diabetic Neuropathy and Congestive Heart Failure I should not expect much improvement - especially when doctors here say that they are unable to help me - I am still going to plead for help from members here.

After a bed-ridden illness lasting for two months having been poisoned by varnish thinner, I awoke to the thinnest feet since I was a young sportsman and that is a very long time ago. But, when struggling to learn to walk again, they soon filled up with blood and platelets until the size of small coconuts. Before the illness I used to wake up with 99% of the fluid (oedema) having returned to my torso. But now, I am now seeing one of my legs almost as fat as when I went to sleep. Another factor is pain - now I am having to endure the strongest of pain above the ankles on the front of the lowest part of the shin which painkillers cannot cope with.

I am on 1 x 40mg Lasix per day but that does not appear to have any effect and, when I increased that dosage by 20mg increments, I remember having some side effects which worried me so went back to 40mg. I take 1 x Neurobion daily comprising VB1 6 and 12 and 2 x 250mg Magnesium Citrate. I took myself off of Statins and Glucophage some years ago which greatly helped my fitness and wellbeing.

I am 82 years of age so obviously cannot expect miracles but I am still trying to increase my quality of life by asking my fellow members if they have ever experienced some of the above - and if so - do they have any advice for me that does NOT involve sitting all day with my legs raised (which will finish me off without doubt) or the same - sleeping with raised legs in bed.

I have recently seen a product SWELL NO MORE advertised heavily in our phones which seems to only be available to our American friends. Has anyone tried this remedy please - if so - you know what to do?

Sorry for such a long spiel but am desperate which must be obvious - thank you for reading

 

[Jo_the_boat]

Hi Rob
I'm not a medic.
Looking at the reviews of the Swell no More, some people seem to have had good results.
I didn't see what caused their oedema but you appear to have specific causes and drugs so suggest you check with your docs before you have a go.
My wife had problems with her leg after a bypass and we found that gentle massage helped relieve her swelling.
It sounds like you've been abandonned by your doctors. How about a second opinion?
Sorry you're in such a bad place. I really hope you find some relief.
Good luck.

 

[BaliRob]

Hi Rob
I'm not a medic.
Looking at the reviews of the Swell no More, some people seem to have had good results.
I didn't see what caused their oedema but you appear to have specific causes and drugs so suggest you check with your docs before you have a go.
My wife had problems with her leg after a bypass and we found that gentle massage helped relieve her swelling.
It sounds like you've been abandonned by your doctors. How about a second opinion?
Sorry you're in such a bad place. I really hope you find some relief.
Good luck.

@Joe_the_boat. Thank you so much for taking the trouble to try and help me. I know I look to be the patient that does not visit his doctor but this is Indonesia. For example - a brand spanking new hospital opened near me and I took the opportunity to ask the resident heart specialist if I could be on his List (only 10 minutes from home also see?). I get a very pleasant young man who says, "Sorry I cannot help you because we do not have an Endocrinologist". Well, my last experience trying to get one here in Bali went like this - Great I found one with an evening surgery - it was 6pm and there were 40+ patients waiting - obviously I
did not wait but decided to write a lengthy email describing my medical history and with copies of all blood and scan results hoping to make his job easier. Did he reply - did he heck! All this after my specialist learning that I had Congestive Heart Failure decided to deny that he told me to find a heart specialist and that I now did not have Kidney Disease 4. This was said to me in front of a member of my staff and which he later refuted when I went back to him on a slightly different matter.

If one has a complicated history needing greater skills than mending a fracture - being told to go to Singapore for treatment does not instill confidence.

I will show you why the doctors and medical staff shy away - one look at my feet they either feel faint or want to amputate.

Hope the attachments work,

Rob

 

[KK123]

Hi @BaliRob, that can't be fun for you that's for sure. I wonder if you could purchase some sort of exercise device for people who are unable to walk? Also, would you mind telling us your typical days diet, my Nan used to have swollen feet and I do recall them saying something about sodium, and also certain types of junk food making it worse, (crisps etc). I'm not sure this is the answer to life itself but low/lower carb seems to help most things.

 

[Dr Snoddy]

Hi @BaliRob. I'm so sorry that you feel abandoned by your medical staff. Your experiences seem to be very similar to those of one of my neighbours. He was recently hospitalised because of his excessive accumulation of fluid which was causing oedema and breathing difficulties. He was placed on a restricted fluid intake, made to take his diuretic tablets which he hadn't been doing and shed 18kg of fluid within days. However, despite taking Metformin, he has continued to eat large quantities of carbohydrate, and takes very little exercise. Unsurprisingly his problems have returned.
It would be helpful to know what you eat and drink on a daily basis. Many people on this forum have been able to improve their quality of life by changing what they eat. Have medics suggested massage, wearing compression stockings, specific exercises etc as ways of preventing the accumulation of fluid in your legs. I realise that some things may not be available in Bali!
How do you control your diabetes?

 

[ianf0ster]

Hi @BaliRob
Given your location I suspect that your food is high in carbohydrates.
There is a GP in the UK (Dr David Unwin) who has had great success with his longer term T2 Diabetic patients, about half of those who tried to lower their carbohydrate intake came off all Diabetes medication except for Metformin, in addition to that the doctor himself and may of his patients came of Blood Pressure medication and diuretics were also de-prescribed as no longer needed. Reducing carbohydrates apparently reduces retained fluid and retained sodium without changes to the amount of fluid or salt consumed.

Do you have a Blood Glucose meter? Many who go low carb find this is an invaluable aid in finding which foods they need to either avoid or to reduce portions of.

 

[Deleted member 543160]

I'd suggest support stockings too, if you don't already use them - they've definitely helped me. My mild, warm weather only, oedema has got worse in one leg over the last few years and instead of the elastic type support stockings I used to wear I'm currently prescribed Jobst FarrowWraps which are made of thicker material with velcro closures so are completely adjustable. They also make separate foot pieces .

And I've recently had a couple of simple little exercises recommended to me, which are intended to keep the fluids in your lower legs moving, so maybe worth a try if you can manage:

• Keep your toes on the floor and raise and lower you heel several times
• Lift you leg slightly and rotate your ankle (either clockwise or anticlockwise, or presumably do a few in both directions!)

Here's a YouTube demo of my Jobst wrap, but there's a lot more info if you "ask Google":

 

[BaliRob]

@KK123; Dr. Snoddy; ianf0stor and Robbity2 - well this is a surprise - I have been a member for many years and moaning about my condition hahaha - and four buses come along at the same time. How can I be polite to the food experts when I say to them that I have not had a potato for years, never have salt in my food (no processsed for me) and that my diet is the same every day comprising porridge oats for breakfast, boiled chicken with broccoli for lunch and two slices of brown bread for my evening meal making a sandwich for either chicken and tomato or omlette and tomato sandwich? After an attack of Pancreatitis over 2 years ago now - I stopped most dairy food and expecially mild cheese which I had had without caution (I was addicted)..

As for the pressure (elastic) stockings - done that and stopped immediately when they caused a blowout of water and blood just above my right ankle 2 inches in diameter. I reported that event here and one other person had had a similar experience.

Retiring last night at 10pm it was 4 am (6 hours later) that the pressure on my feet, ankles and lower legs subsided sufficiently painwise and swelling to allow me to fall asleep. I know that, short of a heart transplant, I cannot stop the oedema and have started posting here again just in case someone has found a palliative to help me - remembering that painkillers can only worsen the Diabetic condition.

My gratitude is expressed herewith to the four posters above who have been kind enough to try and help me.

 

[mariedall]

I'm type 2 & have problems with swollen feet ankles legs. Have tried all sorts of compression socks etc & they leave me with deep marks especially round my ankles so no good. Recently I read about ginger massage oil & it is starting to work a bit but for best results you need to use it daily. Unfortunately due to my other health problems I find it difficult to reach my feet but my daughter who is my carer does it several times weekly. I bought it from Amazon & its only thing that has made any difference.

 

[Hopeful34]

I'm not medically trained, but a relative of mine had very similar issues to you, and it was only when the heart failure nurse prescribed Spironolactone, in addition to the diuretic you're on, that the swelling reduced a lot, so it may be worth asking if you can try that.

 

[finzi1966]

I have congestive heart failure, following a bout of myocarditis caused by a virus. I really feel for you, those feet look so uncomfortable. Is there a particular reason why you don’t want to elevate your feet? Do you find it uncomfortable or is it just that you’d prefer to be more active? I try to elevate my feet whenever I am sitting. My medication is more than yours: 80mg Lasix and 25mg spironalactone per day. 40mg lasix doesn’t sound very much looking at the condition of your lower legs BUT of course I don’t know what side effects it was that made you reduce your dose.

Porridge is very high carb and so isn’t the best choice of breakfast if you are wanting to keep carbs low, but to be honest I think the heart failure + underdose of diuretics + not elevating your legs are probably more to blame than some porridge. If you enjoy porridge then keep eating it! That’s not unreasonable at your time of life. But don’t kid yourself that it’s good for diabetes because it isn’t.

 

[ickihun]

I totally agree. Heart failure could be causing your swellings more than diabetes on this occasion. I'm neither a medical authority but on first reading your thread I felt for your additional condition on top of the diabetes.
I hope to hear you get additional help with your heart condition. Age shouldn't matter with regard to managing your health better. The fact you're asking would tell me you're capable of self managing your condition more. Honestly. I wish ageism didn't exist. I even thought that when I was a teenager doing work experience on one of the geriatric wards. Age is just a number right!!!

 

[BaliRob]

I'm type 2 & have problems with swollen feet ankles legs. Have tried all sorts of compression socks etc & they leave me with deep marks especially round my ankles so no good. Recently I read about ginger massage oil & it is starting to work a bit but for best results you need to use it daily. Unfortunately due to my other health problems I find it difficult to reach my feet but my daughter who is my carer does it several times weekly. I bought it from Amazon & its only thing that has made any difference.

Hello Marie - thank you for this information - here in Bali, Indonesia - the use of Ginger is practiced I have just learned. I will compare local quality with that of Amazon's. Are you sure that it can help my problem - I appended two attachments with my first reply - please check to see if my oedema is worse than yours.

 

[BaliRob]

I totally agree. Heart failure could be causing your swellings more than diabetes on this occasion. I'm neither a medical authority but on first reading your thread I felt for your additional condition on top of the diabetes.
I hope to hear you get additional help with your heart condition. Age shouldn't matter with regard to managing your health better. The fact you're asking would tell me you're capable of self managing your condition more. Honestly. I wish ageism didn't exist. I even thought that when I was a teenager doing work experience on one of the geriatric wards. Age is just a number right!!!

@ickihun - thank you so much for your very warm response - seeing your medical history - I feel guilty being here hahaha. Until the poisoning illness (Aug and Sept) locals would not believe that I was in my 80's insisting I was in my 50's decade.

 

[BaliRob]

I totally agree. Heart failure could be causing your swellings more than diabetes on this occasion. I'm neither a medical authority but on first reading your thread I felt for your additional condition on top of the diabetes.
I hope to hear you get additional help with your heart condition. Age shouldn't matter with regard to managing your health better. The fact you're asking would tell me you're capable of self managing your condition more. Honestly. I wish ageism didn't exist. I even thought that when I was a teenager doing work experience on one of the geriatric wards. Age is just a number right!!!

I totally agree. Heart failure could be causing your swellings more than diabetes on this occasion. I'm neither a medical authority but on first reading your thread I felt for your additional condition on top of the diabetes.
I hope to hear you get additional help with your heart condition. Age shouldn't matter with regard to managing your health better. The fact you're asking would tell me you're capable of self managing your condition more. Honestly. I wish ageism didn't exist. I even thought that when I was a teenager doing work experience on one of the geriatric wards. Age is just a number right!!!

Please see my reply below

 

[ickihun]

Please see my reply below

Where below @BaliRob?

 

[BaliRob]

Where below @BaliRob?

@ickihun So sorry but the computer went crazy day before yesterday and I had to stop my replies half way through. If you count two of my Picture logos ABOVE I have your reply @ickihun .

 

[ickihun]

@ickihun So sorry but the computer went crazy day before yesterday and I had to stop my replies half way through. If you count two of my Picture logos ABOVE I have your reply @ickihun .

OK thank you. I tag it a winner, right?

 

[BaliRob]

OK thank you. I tag it a winner, right?

Thank you love for your reply which was enough for me. But if you want to tag my original - thank you.

 

[BaliRob]

I'm not medically trained, but a relative of mine had very similar issues to you, and it was only when the heart failure nurse prescribed Spironolactone, in addition to the diuretic you're on, that the swelling reduced a lot, so it may be worth asking if you can try that.

I'm not medically trained, but a relative of mine had very similar issues to you, and it was only when the heart failure nurse prescribed Spironolactone, in addition to the diuretic you're on, that the swelling reduced a lot, so it may be worth asking if you can try that.

@hopeful Regarding the drug Spironalactone (Aldactone) This drug is not available in Indonesia and I think I would have an impossible task getting it through Customs because of its reputation. From all of the papers I was able to research - extreme caution should be exercised when prescribing this drug which has such narrow parameters for safe use and I hope that your relative knows this. Also, constant monitoring is required which would have also been impossible for me. But thank you nevertheless.