T2 or NAFLD? ...or, a funny thing happened on the way to the surgery

Melgar

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On the topic of visceral fat - I had been on a three year journey to lose weight - at the end I was 76kg and I was doing a lot of paddleboarding - the kind where you really engage the core (ie actual excercise, not just pootling) - and felt like my belly was as flat as any 50 odd year old should want. I always though that a 6-pack was an unnecessary vanity.

But for me, the belly was the last thing to go - and yes we are all different, but it's also to do with what we are told is 'good' excercise...

I mean - I'm really no expert on this at all, but the basics I've picked up in the last couple of months all go...
1 - despite what we are told about dietary fat, ALL carbs beyond what you need at that moment and all fructose and alcohol is turned into fat in the form of trigliceride and first stored in the liver, between the organs, the muscles, then fat cells - Ie, you fill up from the inside out.
2 - Aerobic and cardio excercise burns glucose. As you work the muscles - you clearly tone, and that is having the effect of pulling triglycerides out of muscle storage, converting back to glucose - I'm almost certainly over-simplifying, but essentially most excercise ends up emptying you from the outside in.
3 - depending on how you are eating, you may be always in fat storage mode, making it increasingly difficult to get into fat burning.
4 - as you do more and eat less, your body will compensate by dialing down your metabolism, by an amout that is really quite significant.

So - my thought was - let's test this - try for short sharp shocks - 36hour fasts and 15 min high resistance excercise. I still do as much paddleboarding as I can, but that's as much for mental health as anything else (meaning, I just love to be out on the river, it does me the world of good beyond simple excercise). But - aim for autophagy in fasting and anaerobic excercise - try to encourage my body to become as metabolically flexible as possible, because I know how hard the 'just do a little more' lifestile gets..

And - I don't think I've done this long enough to say anything with any sense of confidence - for sure my weight has dropped away, and my belly has emptied like a ballon.. I've been doing quite a lot of plank work, and it's pretty shocking the loose folds of skin around my belly button - but I'm also a big fan of the Slendertone products, and that's coming down...

But it is hard work to keep doing all the things. For example, I've just had a few days holiday, so I've eaten normally for four days running, and can see my weight going up every day.. which I expect, but I can see that this kind of obsessive daily measurement regime is not a great way to live ... and there is a fine line to tread; my daughter is recovering from an eating disorder, and there are obvious dangers there...

I'm sure this forum is littered with people who had targets and plenty of motivation for a couple of months - I don't want to just drop my blood glucose and serum lipids for a month or two, I want to strive for a way of life that gives me the best overall health, and a sense of enjoying life, eating, and having a sense of being at peace with myself. I know I can put in effort to achieve a target, but I also know that once that target drops away, I'm still there....

So - I guess I'm saying that I'm aware that this isn't a short term thing - even if I can whip my own measurements into remission, there is nothing stopping me going around the whole cycle again, unless I make systemic changes, which may not need to be so drastic, but do need to stick...
I'm a huge fan of exercise. I have done it for so long it is incorporated into my lifestyle, but for me it is easy to continue as I have been involved in fitness, in one way or another, all my life. If you are just starting it's an effort. It hurts, you feel exhausted, you ache, and finding the time and energy is a big issue for many especially when you come home from work. Exercising with a friend helps, make it a social event. Vary it. I am able to vary my exercises now as I no longer run against the clock and who cares about personal bests when you are not competitive. I was a one trick pony, I ran, period. I would only do training that increased my speed over distance. Now I can do whatever exercise I want :)

So start with something you enjoy. I get you on enjoying being on the water. When I stopped running I was able to vary my exercises quite a bit. I would do interval training in my kayak. I loved it. The adrenaline surge was amazing, but that is just me. There is a lot to be said for walking with purpose even on the flat. A slow steady jog or a purposeful walk increases your slow-twitch muscles. The fitter you are the more energy you burn, even when you are sitting still. It's a win win. Light weight training is an easy one. Maybe men would like to bulk up with heavier repetitive weight lifting and achieve that sought after 6 pack. Light repetitive weights are great if you don't want to have bulging biceps, but all weight training lowers insulin resistance. Actually, I would say all exercise lowers insulin resistance. Yes, it may put your blood sugars up in the short term, but over time it lowers your blood sugars as your body systems improve. Goodness knows what my blood sugars would be like if I was sedentary.
 

Chris24Main

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'The fitter you are the more energy you burn, even when you are sitting still.'

Great point, and thanks for the comment.

I've always actually disliked exercise for its own sake, pretty much all my life... but that was mainly because I enjoyed doing... I was hugely into kayaking when I was younger, all big water stuff, and then I switched to martial arts, and spent about 10 years doing that, and then wakeboarding and Kendo, and then I had a kid, and suddenly no time.

And like a Pink Floyd lyric; ten years had got behind me, and I realise that I'm doing absolutely nothing, and my mental image of myself bears no resemblance to what I see in the mirror. I figure that lack of time is my biggest problem, so I take up fast walking, often at night. There is a five mile route along a local river that I used to do in the pitch black - I have some memories of doing the walk when it was snowing and at night; not able to see my hand in front of me - madness, but I got really into it; one thing I should mention is that when I was eighteen, I had a motorbike accident; double fracture to one femur and a split kneecap on the other, so running was not something I felt was going to be good for me for the long term, walking was the way forward.. But even that kind of power walking takes its toll, and I started to feel quite a lot of pain in my foot.

I ended up buying a cross-trainer on ebay, about six months before anyone had heard the term COVID, a really good, gym quality machine, and these things are about the only piece of gym equipment I've ever liked using; for me they are perfect, because there is just no impact on the joints, and you can really load on the resistance if you want a full body workout.

Having that cross trainer, even when we went into lockdown, allowed me to get some baseline fitness back, and then I bought a kayak - messing about in rivers again after a 30 year break. The local river isn't exactly wild, but there was one little stretch where I could play (play meaning that I could flip the boat over in various ways, or stand it up on its end and pirouette; all great fun, though I did end up one January morning, alone and pinned upside down against a bridge, with my paddle stuck and my head under the freezing water, thinking 'this isn't entirely what I promised my wife about not taking unnecessary risks...')

Anyway - I'm rambling - for me, I'm much happier being fitter, no question. But - I've become really interested in the question of motivation, and I'm fascinated with your comment, because I'm very much not the least interested in competition. Team sports, and in fact nearly all sports where the point is to win something just leave me uninterested. I've played a lot of squash in my time, but I usually preferred to lose, because you learn much more when you lose, if you play someone better than you..

but - I am very competitive, with myself .... can I perfect this technique, can I make that movement more graceful... that kind of thing, and so I find that all my motivation comes from just being able to do a thing and do it reasonably well (or at least do it well enough and feel that I'm improving).

What I'm not going to argue about though- is the value of exercise, wherever you find the motivation...
 
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Chris24Main

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Quick update - this is becoming more of a running blog than anything now....

I had my appointment with the dietician this morning, and a couple of observations:

1 - she had no problem at all with either me doing a rolling fast, or cutting out most carbs from my eating days. I had been expecting some push back, but while she was saying (quite truthfully) that there is a lack of long term data on the benefits or otherwise of intermittent fasting (actually that isn't quite true, there is plenty of data, but it tends to gravitate toward religious observance of fasting rather than fasting purely for metabolic health) she was supportive as long as it was working for me and that I wasn't struggling to function. To be fair, she never used that term, and it was a totally positive conversation.

I was curious whether she would recommend any 'minimum amount' of carbs - and she kind of did, but in a very flexible way, not really recommending anything per se, but we talked about ... more real life limitations, you can't live in a vacuum, that kind of thing.. it was a useful discussion about realities, not a lecture on the benefits of carbs.

2 - we also 'agreed to disagree' on the topic of dietary fat and cholesterol. For those of you following the 'are Statins really everything they are sold as' discussion, we touched on meds - she was totally happy that I did not need to be taking Metformin, and also wasn't pushing Statins, she was very clear that this was something for my GP; but at one point she did say 'we know that dietary saturated fat leads to higher Cholesterol' - at which point I asked her, very politely, to explain how that actually works. Spoiler alert, there are several reasons why there is no connection between dietary fat and levels of Blood Cholesterol, but she couldn't explain her position, even though she was happy to use the phrase 'we know that...' I found that really very interesting..
So, we agreed that this was an argument that we didn't need to have, but the link between saturated fat eaten and cholesterol was an absolute fact as far as she was concerned.

I'm going to have to bone up on my metabolic pathways before I actually attempt to defend this position fully with my GP. There is an unshakeable belief in the benefit of Statins and the danger of high Cholesterol...

I suppose I should also point out that fundamentally for me, the entire point of the serum lipid test that generates the results of your Cholesterol - are all simply ways of describing the levels of types of fat in your liver - so of course mine were too high - I believe that my actual diagnosis should have been non-alcoholic fatty liver disease.. so after a period of dietary change to reduce the fat in my liver... of course the levels of fat in my liver should drop.

But, measurement of LDL levels on their own are pretty meaningless, they are an effect, not a cause. Even then, there is no reason to be taking medication purely designed to further reduce LDLs. Anyway -

Bottom line though, really positive appointment, and if this was a review of the service I received, I would be giving it a glowing recommendation...
 

Melgar

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I hate to contradict, but my bad cholesterol went up when I was on my keto last year. I put it down to my uptake in dairy. I have eased off on the dairy. It will be interesting to see what difference it makes to my cholesterol. My Trigs are lowish at 0.61 mmol/ls lab range less than 2.21 mmol/ls. The only raised ones are my bad cholesterol numbers.

Edited to add this last sentence.
 
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HSSS

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I hate to contradict, but my bad cholesterol went up when I was on my keto last year. I put it down to my uptake in dairy. I have eased off on the dairy. It will be interesting to see what difference it makes to my cholesterol. My Trigs are lowish at 0.61 mmol/ls lab range less than 2.21 mmol/ls. The only raised ones are my bad cholesterol numbers.

Edited to add this last sentence.
Have you read about lean mass hyper responders? It may be relevant or interesting to you

What did the hdl, and particle sizes of that “bad” cholesterol do? And the ratios?
Your triglycerides are excellent. Did keto improve them as it usually does?
 
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Melgar

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Have you read about lean mass hyper responders? It may be relevant or interesting to you

What did the hdl, and particle sizes of that “bad” cholesterol do? And the ratios?
Your triglycerides are excellent. Did keto improve them as it usually does?
Have you read about lean mass hyper responders? It may be relevant or interesting to you

What did the hdl, and particle sizes of that “bad” cholesterol do? And the ratios?
Your triglycerides are excellent. Did keto improve them as it usually does?
I haven't heard of 'lean mass responders'. I will check that out thanks :) My cholesterol this time was out of range. Which was very disappointing. It has been very good up until my last panel. Cholesterol - 6.54 mmol/ls lab range 2.00 - 5.19, and LDL cholesterol 4.41 mmol/ls lab range 1.50 - 3.40 mmol/ls. I was taken aback. My Trigs have always been very good regardless of the 9 months of Keto it's just my cholesterol that has risen. I'm now correcting that and eating less dairy. I love cheese. It,s one of my favourite food groups.
 
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Melgar

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I'm not sure why your name is above what I wrote lol
 

HSSS

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Under 3.4 as the range? Typically here it’s desirable under 4 as a diabetic and under 5 otherwise. And that’s without considering what type of LDL. Small and dense or large and fluffy. It makes a difference to risk profiles when you look at it with nuances rather than a sledge hammer. The latter approach might be valid for population studies but as an individual I prefer to see the details - relevant to me.
 

Melgar

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Under 3.4 as the range? Typically here it’s desirable under 4 as a diabetic and under 5 otherwise. And that’s without considering what type of LDL. Small and dense or large and fluffy. It makes a difference to risk profiles when you look at it with nuances rather than a sledge hammer. The latter approach might be valid for population studies but as an individual I prefer to see the details - relevant to me.
This format is how we get our results from Canadian labs. So in the UK it's under 5 for people without diabetes. Interesting.

And a big wow on lean mass hyper-responder Phenotypes, totally fascinating. I had never heard of ‘lean mass hyper-responder Phenotypes. I read through a number of studies and yes I may well fit the LMHR phenotype criteria. They even mentioned long distance runners in one of the papers I read. I have a low BMI 19, low trigs 0.61 mmol/ls, very fit and metabolically healthy apart from those high cholesterol figures. I have always had lowish trigs, and prior to being on the very low carb diet my LDL cholesterol was within the normal range. To be honest I just thought it was the increase in fats and proteins in my diet replacing the carbs that had driven my cholesterol up.

I have already started adjusting my diet and have increased my carb intake. I will evaluate it further after reading these papers on LMHR, and make further dietary adjustments to drive down those LDL figures. To be honest I don’t eat much red meat, may be a couple of times a month I’ll eat a ribeye steak. I think the culprit is the dairy: cream, cheese and butter. I would use 35% lactose free cream. I cook with olive oil, I eat fish and chicken and veggies so I was taken aback. Thank you for mentioning lean mass hyper-responder phenotypes. It,s definitely given me something to think about and it certainly answers why my cholestrol went so high.

I will leave you with this from the article ‘Elevated LDL Cholesterol with a Carbohydrate-Restricted Diet’ by Norwitz, Feldman, Soto-Mota, Kalayiian and Ludwig.

“We speculate that this effect may be greatest in lean, insulin sensitive individuals with high energy demands,”

I’m all those elements.

Mel
 
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Chris24Main

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Fascinating discussion, and I'll add that book to my list. Sorry, article...
@Melgar - For comparison, my triglyceride levels were 1.5mmol/L at the end of Feb; I would say that with roughly half that, you probably just don't need to look at any other lipid level.. you have almost no visceral fat, period.

I should mention that I'm only a 'convert' to the Malcolm Kendrick view of Cholesterol - I have zero actual medical knowledge; but I would thoroughly recommend reading any of his books - there is a lot of detail on all the data and science behind the connection between diet, cholesterol and heart disease, but any level of poking around will start to make you question some of the things we 'know' - and I would think, should make you far more relaxed about your levels of LDL..

Fundamentally, our thinking today is still an evolution of the interpretation of what doctors first saw under a microscope when they were investigating what was rapidly being described as heart disease - stuff that looked fatty and tested for cholesterol - therefore:

We need to eat less cholesterol, because then there will be less cholesterol in our blood, therefore, less to clog up our arteries and give us heart disease.

This led directly to the guidelines shifting to - eat less fat and more carbs. I mean literally - you can look up the guidelines in 1977 - there is a lot of detail, but fundamentally this led to the idea that we should eat less fat and more carbs.

However, the essential theory is full of holes, and even the original, when written out like I've done, doesn't hold water any more... so a more modern interpretation is now;

We need to eat less saturated fat, because there is a connection between saturated fats and cholesterol, so that we have less cholesterol in the form of 'bad' cholesterol, ie, LDL which can become oxidised, thus finding its way past the endothelium and getting stuck in the artery walls, causing plaque and thus heart disease.

However - all of that is still full of holes...

The most obvious thing is that even way back when, there was significant argument about what the composition of arterial plaque actually is, and how it forms - it's horrendously complicated, and there are whole sections of medical science that just were not understood at the time, but there was definitely a counter argument that all plaques were essentially blood clots, and we should be looking at what was causing the blood clots in the arterial walls in the first place, not focussing on one of the ingredients (which turns out to be virtually identical to LDL but totally different in function, and utterly indistinguishable in the day)

It really makes as much sense as, - most of the composition of arterial plaque seems to be red blood cells, so we should eat less food which has red blood cells in it...

Anyway - the next problem with the dietary approach we all 'know' is that you need much more cholesterol to survive than you can possibly eat, and the liver produces most of it. If you eat less food high in cholesterol, your liver simply produces more.... You simply cannot control your level of cholesterol by just changing diet - (in your case, where you are clearly generally fit and eating well)

The next problem is that - the dietary fats we eat - whether saturated, mono saturated, Omega-3, poly unsaturated - whatever, are all packaged up indiscriminately as triglycerides in the intestine (despite what you might think, your body doesn't really care, the 'tri' refers to three fatty acid chains, and they are made up of any combination at hand) and transported around, dropping off the triglycerides as they go. But these have nothing to do with LDL - LDL, or low density lipids, start off life as very low density lipids, because they are stuffed with triglycerides, and carry them, along with a cholesterol molecule. Critically - all the triglicerides in these VLDLs are saturated, because they are all created by the liver - from carbs.

So - there is not, nor can be - any link between dietary fat and LDL. Diary - maybe, but only because of the level of carbs.. eating more carbs as a way of reducing LDL, though - well, that just cannot help.

Back to the Very low-density Lipid - or transport for Triglyceride - when they have done their job of distributing triglycerides, they are like deflated balloons, with only the cholesterol left - this obviously raises the density and is now known as .... an LDL.

The main distinguishing feature of an LDL is that when you take statins, they go down in number. Otherwise, the amount of LDL in your body is totally a function of your liver, and the amount of LDL receptors in your endothelium - the layer of cells that lines your arteries and veins - and which need cholesterol.

The other main feature of LDLs is that when an endothelial cell expresses an LDL receptor, it then (and only then) enters the cell, drops off its precious cholesterol, and is consumed in the process. There is no mechanism which would explain how an LDL can somehow get past the endothelial layer and 'get stuck' in the arterial wall... just none. It was best described as 'sticking a harpoon in the side of a whale, and then going around to the other side of the whale, and expecting the harpoon to come out' - just cannot happen.

That's just the tip of the iceberg. Get into what the Glycocalyx is, read about the work of Ancel Keyes, before and after he testified to congress, the study that Pfizer nearly published that talked about blood clots, just before they bought the company that developed Atorvastatin, Note that the phraseology around 'bad' cholesterol and 'good' cholesterol (neither of which are really cholesterol, but still emotionally connect to the 'eat less cholesterol' theory) just popped into existence at the same time as statins, which are very good at reducing 'bad' cholesterol... but not really anything else - save making a ton of money..

But, what do I know...
 

Melgar

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@Chris24Main Very interesting. I really need to gem up on my knowledge of Cholesterol. I must admit I was very confused about my sudden cholesterol rise. I just assumed it was the saturated fats and proteins in my very low carb diet I used to replace the carbs, but also knowing that everybody’s cholesterol levels were decreasing and how could my trigs remain so low when my cholesterol had risen so much. I have some idea now, but I want to know more about it. I will read of Malcolm Kendrick’s theories. I have to dash out to work, but I am very interested in this discussion.
 
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Chris24Main

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I will warn you, it's a bit of a Rabbit hole... but definitely fascinating... I'm very much 'incompetence before conspiracy' - and I'm not even bashing Pfizer above - I was very happy to take Pfizer's Covid vaccination, and companies have a right to make money... but I think ultimately the more I read, the more we will look back on the way we think of Cholesterol pretty much the same way that we look back on the general perception that you were safer in a car crash being able to be thrown free, and that wearing a seat belt was dangerous.

Here's a link to the first book I read - there is a recommendation on this forum that I followed

And I really don't want to present this as 'here is something I read therefore is correct' - I can only say that the fundamentals as I understand them make sense to me... and the whole 'eat less cholesterol in order to have less heart disease' theory just breaks down all over the place.

The good news is that - if you follow the line that the underlying cause of heart disease (and I'm deliberately over-simplifying hugely) is actually repeat damage to the endothelium (in the arteries only due to the increased pressure) caused by a multitude of things, then you can start making better decisions about what to do about it, and stop worrying about controlling something you actually have no control over, other than take a drug which does reduce that number - but doesn't actually do anything to improve your health - and may be seriously bad for you in some cases..

Despite the statin industry earning $25 billion a year ... or maybe that's why the range of people suggested to benefit keeps going up, and the recommended limit of LDL keeps going down..
 

BarbaraG

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Forgive me, I’m not good on paying attention to details….. but if I’ve got this right, you seem to be suggesting that you had NAFLD all along, and the diagnosis of diabetes was incorrect? But you did have alarmingly high BG levels, so you do (or did) have diabetes. The type is open to question.

Here’s another interpretation: you do indeed (or did) have NAFLD, because the aetiology of T2D involves excessive fat in the liver. That causes insulin resistance in the liver, so gluconeogenesis is not adequately suppressed. Therefore there is a gradual rise in fasting glucose - but unless you’re testing that, you wouldn’t notice. Post-meal glucose levels are contained because the pancreas shovels out more insulin to compensate. The liver increasingly tried to get rid of this excess fat by sending it out into the bloodstream. Some of it gets lodged in the pancreas - and in those who are susceptible, the islet cells become less effective at making insulin. There is then a pretty quick increase in both fasting and post-meal glucose - hey presto, diagnosis of diabetes. This is the Twin Cycle Hypothesis by Prof Roy Taylor of Newcastle University.

Unfortunately, you were assumed to be type 1, and treated as such. They gave you insulin, the weight piled on, you became every more insulin resistant as a consequence.

Anyhow - I realise this doesn’t fully fit the facts, because your diagnosis of diabetes came after a period of weight LOSS - which should have released excess fat from the liver and pancreas. OTOH, if you lost weight on a low calorie bit rather carb rich diet, it may be that your carb intake was simply too high for your personal carb tolerance, even as you were losing weight? Just a theory - I’ve seen multiple exam0es on low carb sites and books which say that carb tolerance varies from person to person, and what’s fine fot you may be too much for me, or vice versa.

In summary - it’s not either/or with NAFLD and T2D. You can have both.

Fortunately, a lower carb approach is good for both.
 
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Chris24Main

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Hi @BarbaraG - and thanks.

Simplest to say is that I see this as all correct - what you are saying is exactly what I'm saying.

I suppose the only real detail that matters is that for a couple of months prior to diagnosis, I was consuming a frankly ludicrous amount fructose through total ignorance, and believing I had a 'free pass' because it was 'natural sugar' and couldn't be 'used as fuel'.

So, my path to diabetes was short circuited - in the sense that the 'normal' cycle of too much glucose -> too much insulin -> insulin resistance was sped up because even though my overall weight was close to my target goal, all the fructose I was eating was being exclusively converted into liver fat, and that was overwhelming my liver, and pancreas, leading to beta cell dysfunction in a matter of months rather than years or decades.

This is shamelessly cropped from Jason Fung's book - The Diabetes Code, but you can see the point that fructose can play a unique part of hitting the liver directly.

Screenshot 2024-03-27 at 11.33.54.jpeg.png


Ultimately - and then particularly after several months of insulin I didn't need (or maybe did for a while to let my pancreas recover, I'm not 100% about that) I ended up at a pretty solid T2D diagnosis.

The point really about the title, is that I spent years doing what we are all told to do, reduce calories, do more cardio exercise - and it's tough, and I should have been the poster boy for self-discipline and how to successfully follow the guidelines - but because I had no clue about how a huge chunk of my supposedly balanced diet was really just turning straight into sugar then visceral fat that I couldn't see or measure - I was heading up a totally blind alley.
 
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Outlier

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I too used to eat a lot of fresh fruit under the mistaken idea that it was "good for me". What a revelation to find out it wasn't suitable for us T2 diabetics! What a load of duff information we are given even now.
I have a lot to thank the members of this forum for. Now I know better, and my poor body, which had been trying to tell me for ages that my healthy diet was only healthy for non-diabetics, is in better nick than it had been for years.
 
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Melgar

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I will warn you, it's a bit of a Rabbit hole... but definitely fascinating... I'm very much 'incompetence before conspiracy' - and I'm not even bashing Pfizer above - I was very happy to take Pfizer's Covid vaccination, and companies have a right to make money... but I think ultimately the more I read, the more we will look back on the way we think of Cholesterol pretty much the same way that we look back on the general perception that you were safer in a car crash being able to be thrown free, and that wearing a seat belt was dangerous.

Here's a link to the first book I read - there is a recommendation on this forum that I followed

And I really don't want to present this as 'here is something I read therefore is correct' - I can only say that the fundamentals as I understand them make sense to me... and the whole 'eat less cholesterol in order to have less heart disease' theory just breaks down all over the place.

The good news is that - if you follow the line that the underlying cause of heart disease (and I'm deliberately over-simplifying hugely) is actually repeat damage to the endothelium (in the arteries only due to the increased pressure) caused by a multitude of things, then you can start making better decisions about what to do about it, and stop worrying about controlling something you actually have no control over, other than take a drug which does reduce that number - but doesn't actually do anything to improve your health - and may be seriously bad for you in some cases..

Despite the statin industry earning $25 billion a year ... or maybe that's why the range of people suggested to benefit keeps going up, and the recommended limit of LDL keeps going down..
Oh I'm used to rabbit holes. In fact, I can join those dots and create a rabbit when it should have been a house, then promptly run straight down the hole after it, just like Alice. :rolleyes: In a moment of instant gratification I bought a kindle copy - 'The Clot Thickens: The enduring mystery of heart disease', “Malcolm Kendrick. I prefer a physical book, but my vision is messed up and I can expand the text with a digital copy. I love the title.

Cholesterol - "Is it possible that our villain was simply left holding the gun while the true culprits ran and hid?" I nabbed that quote from the intro blurb on Amazon. I will enjoy the read.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist either. Mostly a sausage is just simply a sausage. I have witnessed first hand, and on many occasions, the press and social media spinning something, I have intimate knowledge of, into something barely recognizable to me just to make a boring story more interesting.

I must admit when I saw my lipid panel results and my high LDL I thought CVD, curse those saturated fats, get those numbers down Mel. I actually said to my Dr do I need to go on statins, he said no.
 
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Chris24Main

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Oh I'm used to rabbit holes. In fact, I can join those dots and create a rabbit when it should have been a house, then promptly run straight down the hole after it, just like Alice. :rolleyes: In a moment of instant gratification I bought a kindle copy - 'The Clot Thickens: The enduring mystery of heart disease', “Malcolm Kendrick. I prefer a physical book, but my vision is messed up and I can expand the text with a digital copy. I love the title.

Cholesterol - "Is it possible that our villain was simply left holding the gun while the true culprits ran and hid?" I nabbed that quote from the intro blurb on Amazon. I will enjoy the read.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist either. Mostly a sausage is just simply a sausage. I have witnessed first hand, and on many occasions, the press and social media spinning something, I have intimate knowledge of, into something barely recognizable to me just to make a boring story more interesting.

I must admit when I saw my lipid panel results and my high LDL I thought CVD, curse those saturated fats, get those numbers down Mel. I actually said to my Dr do I need to go on statins, he said no.
With your serum lipid results, I'm really looking forward to hearing what you make of that book...
 
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