Tax on red meat and bacon??

[Oldvatr]

I hope animal activists such as Peta etc. eat yellow cake so they glow in the dark to make hunting them easier.

Bit extreme I would say. Vegans have a right to lead their lives as they see fit, but I object when they try to force their principles into my space.

 

[first14808]

Some of the sugar cane farms in my area, produce certain varieties of cane just for ethanol.

That's still a sustainability challenge. So if fossil fuels are taxed out of usage, something needs to replace the energy. Some may be wind or solar, but those cost a lot of money and take up space, especially large scale solar PV. Then countries are decarbonising to greater or lesser extents. The UK's going to have to cut all gas used in heating or transportation to meet it's self-imposed CO2 targets.

That means a much greater need for alternative fuels, whether that's cutting forests to turn into wood chips to feed converted power stations like Drax, or planting more corn, or cutting new fields to plant cane. It's somewhat ironic that environmental policies are resulting in more destruction of natural habitats.

 

[Dark Horse]

I think that's where the politics get interesting. So Russia used to rely on US wheat, now it's modernised it's agriculture and doesn't. So Russia's now exporting and competing with the US. The US had lobbying by environmentalists (and agribusiness) to produce ethanol from corn. It's more expensive than fossil fuel and less efficient and means farms producing fuel rather than food. That has a knock-on effect on feed prices & meat. Then there's soybeans. US has had a record yield, but sanctions mean China isn't buying it. Or at least not directly.

So I guess if farmland currently dedicated to ethanol or soy were converted to producing other veg, a vegan world might be possible. But I'm not convinced it's any more sustainable than mixed agriculture. Claiming it'd save the planet also overlooks one possible reason why crops have been having record yields, namely the effect of higher CO2 levels. Plants need CO2 for photosynthesis, so seems rather foolish to want to get rid of it.

Although higher CO2 levels tend to increase crop yields, there are are factors which can negate this. When temperatures get too high, yields fall, e.g. in the USA which currently produces 41% of the world's corn and 38% of the world's soybeans:-

Area-weighted average yields given current growing regions are predicted to decrease by 31-43% under the slowest warming scenario and 67-79% under the most rapid warming scenario by the end of the century.
https://www.nber.org/papers/w13799​

In addition, predicted changes in weather patterns due to global warming mean that drought, flooding and storm damage will decrease crop yields in some areas. There will be winners and losers but the FAO say:-

Although some countries in the temperate zone may reap some benefits from climate change, many countries in the tropical and subtropical zones appear to be more vulnerable. Particular hazards are the possibly increased flooding of low-lying areas, the increased frequency and severity of droughts in semi-arid areas, and potential decreases in attainable crop yields. It happens that the latter countries tend to be the poorest and the least able to make the necessary economic adjustments. Much of the expected change in global climate is due to the past and present activities of the industrial countries; so it is their responsibility to commit themselves to, and to play an active role in, a comprehensive international effort to prepare for the likely consequences.
http://www.fao.org/docrep/W5183E/w5183e0b.htm​

 

[Oldvatr]

Although higher CO2 levels tend to increase crop yields, there are are factors which can negate this. When temperatures get too high, yields fall, e.g. in the USA which currently produces 41% of the world's corn and 38% of the world's soybeans:-

Area-weighted average yields given current growing regions are predicted to decrease by 31-43% under the slowest warming scenario and 67-79% under the most rapid warming scenario by the end of the century.
https://www.nber.org/papers/w13799​

In addition, predicted changes in weather patterns due to global warming mean that drought, flooding and storm damage will decrease crop yields in some areas. There will be winners and losers but the FAO say:-

Although some countries in the temperate zone may reap some benefits from climate change, many countries in the tropical and subtropical zones appear to be more vulnerable. Particular hazards are the possibly increased flooding of low-lying areas, the increased frequency and severity of droughts in semi-arid areas, and potential decreases in attainable crop yields. It happens that the latter countries tend to be the poorest and the least able to make the necessary economic adjustments. Much of the expected change in global climate is due to the past and present activities of the industrial countries; so it is their responsibility to commit themselves to, and to play an active role in, a comprehensive international effort to prepare for the likely consequences.
http://www.fao.org/docrep/W5183E/w5183e0b.htm​

https://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?user=dbGuh9MAAAAJ&hl=en
Seems legit. Has an impressive track record

It seems his work you quote is based on an earlier paper he published where he discusses this non linear temperture effect on crop yield, and I have not found anyone who has supporting evidence for this hypothesis. Thus what he says here is very dependant on his hypothesis being true and verifiable. I am not convinced that we have evidence to either prove or disprove his conjecture, so I have to say I am not convinced yet.

 

[Oldvatr]

At least Beef Flavour crisps should still be available since the ingredients have never seen a cow in their life, In fact, maybe never seen a potato either.

 

[Pinkorchid]

Just been reading the paper and researchers from Oxford University are suggesting putting a tax on red meat and bacon. This will include mincemeat, burgers, sausages also steak, lamb, pork. Sausages and bacon and other processed food, a whopping 79% on sausages, bacon and other processed foods. Red meat, in general, a 14% tax on. The researchers are saying that it will save lives as these products cause Heart Disease, Diabetes and Cancer. This was also talked about on LBC this morning. If this turns out that the Government does this, our meat will be very expensive. Nanny state or what?

I do not think it needs a tax on it as meat is going up in price all the time and will become to expensive for very many people to be able to afford to buy and so be forced into eating less meat

 

[bulkbiker]

I do not think it needs a tax on it as meat is going up in price all the time and will become to expensive for very many people to be able to afford to buy and so be forced into eating less meat

But if I can get high fat mince at M&S of all places for £3 a kilo.. is that expensive.. ?
If I weren't greedy that would probably last for 4 meals (usually only feeds 2 of us) considering how nutrient dense beef is that seems pretty cheap to me.
I'd sacrifice everything else in my diet for meat anyway... oh hang on I have!

 

[Pinkorchid]

But if I can get high fat mince at M&S of all places for £3 a kilo.. is that expensive.. ?
If I weren't greedy that would probably last for 4 meals (usually only feeds 2 of us) considering how nutrient dense beef is that seems pretty cheap to me.
I'd sacrifice everything else in my diet for meat anyway... oh hang on I have!

Yes but mince is one of the cheaper meats and probably all some families can afford but as meat prices rise that will go up in price as well

 

[DaisyDuke 2]

Who is driving this agenda? There have apparently been riots outside butchers shops in France!

Probably more to do with global warming, didn’t they suggest we should stop eating meat recently, due to the Methane Cows give off!

Obviously, it’s got nothing to do with all the third world countries who have absolutely no agenda at all for cleaning up the pollution they produce from old cars, industry etc etc.. Not forgetting aircraft.