1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2019 »
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Testing with the Libre - Changes in the rules for driving

Discussion in 'Type 1 Diabetes' started by KenBachelor, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. KenBachelor

    KenBachelor Type 1 · Active Member

    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    58
    I'm sure this information must have been posted somewhere but I can't find it, so please accept my apologies for any duplication. We were asked a couple of weeks ago to write to our MP's about the delay in approving the Libre test for driving and I've now received the following from my MP.

    Assuming that what he says is correct, it looks as if we can stop testing with blood by the end of the month!

    Dear Ken

    Thank you for contacting me about the Driving Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) guidance on the use of monitoring technologies for people living with diabetes.

    I appreciate your concerns, and understand that the DVLA is currently in the process of amending the Assessing Fitness to Drive guidance on the use of new monitoring technologies for people who suffer from diabetes.

    My Ministerial colleagues have reassured me that the updated guidance is intended for publication in February. It is welcome news that the guidance will allow for the testing of interstitial fluid for driving licensing purposes for car or motorcycle drivers who have diabetes. Goods vehicle and bus drivers must continue to monitor their blood glucose levels.

    I hope this response has provided a measure of clarity and reassurance, and I will continue to monitor the updated guidelines closely.

    Thank you again for taking the time to contact me.

    Warm regards

    Nadhim

    Nadhim Zahawi
    MP for Stratford on Avon
     
    • Informative Informative x 5
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Copernicus

    Copernicus Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    149
    Likes Received:
    83
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Well done, about time the DVLA saw sense in this matter. Now all we need is for all of us to get it free on the NHS
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. porl69

    porl69 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,497
    Likes Received:
    3,209
    Trophy Points:
    198
    I really do not know where I stand on the Libre and driving! I am one of the lucky ones whos Libre readings are very accurate. There are a lot of posts on here and social media about the vast differences in readings. So you could have a Libre reading of 5 (safe to drive) and actually be hypo! A fair few diabetics are hypo unaware. Still think finger pricking should be used before driving
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. helensaramay

    helensaramay Type 1 · Expert

    Messages:
    6,010
    Likes Received:
    6,000
    Trophy Points:
    178
    I know this mentions the use of "interstitial fluid" but it effectively means CGM which provides more information than finger pricks.
    I have always thought a reading of at least 5mmol/l every 2 hours is a pragmatic solution to a complex problem.
    If my reading is 4.7 and stable (or rising), I may be safer to drive than someone with a BG of 5.2 and falling.
    CGM provides this trend in formation so, would be useful to use that for driving.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  5. Copernicus

    Copernicus Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    149
    Likes Received:
    83
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Yes, but you could fingerprick and get a reading say of 5 but you could actually be dropping. At least the Libre shows if you are rising or falling.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  6. sninge

    sninge Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Sometimes my libre doesn't give me accurate readings but the ones I've had have always read lower when I was low and higher when I was high!! Don't think I have in the last 1.5 yrs had one that said I wasnt below 4 when my meter said I was!! I do understand though that it is better to be safe than sorry esp when we could kill someone by driving hypo!!
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. KenBachelor

    KenBachelor Type 1 · Active Member

    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Used sensibly, the Libre does everything we need. When I take a reading it tells me whether the trend is dropping or rising. We all know that the readings give the position about 10 minutes ago and as I never drive unless my reading is 7mmol or higher I can use that knowing whether it's going the wrong way.

    We've always been told that we mustn't drive unless the B/G is more than 5mmol and that having set off, we must test again every 2 hours! Anyone following those rules is asking for trouble and risking the life of other road users.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. helensaramay

    helensaramay Type 1 · Expert

    Messages:
    6,010
    Likes Received:
    6,000
    Trophy Points:
    178
    I disagree.
    If my BG is stable (which I can tell with Libre) and I have no bolus insulin on board, I am risking no one’s life by driving at 5.0.
    In fact, if my BG is too high (for me, this is above 8mmol/l), I struggle to concentrate and feel sleeping which I think is more risky.
    I am pretty sure, before, I had diabetes, I would drive with my BG is the 4s.

    The point is, we are all different and have a duty to ourselves and others to take care when driving. For some this may be ensuring our BG is alive 7 and for others it may be ensuring our BG is stable and between 5 and 7.

    Edited to add: I (and I think others) find driving causes my BG to rise. So driving for 2 hours starting at 5mmol/l with no bolus on board is likely to result in a reading of around 6 or 7. Further reasons for not needing such a high starting BG to be safe to drive.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
    #8 helensaramay, Feb 14, 2019 at 7:48 PM
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  9. Stephen Lewis

    Stephen Lewis Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    68
    I used Libre and finger pricking for my first 2 weeks using CGM. The finger pricking always measured between 1.0 and 1.5 above the Libre even allowing for a time delay. I also generally feel hypo when my finger pricking is about 5.5, but not when the Libre is between 4.5 and 5. You can easily take a reading on the Libre while driving not so easy to continuously check with blood on a long car trip.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. evilclive

    evilclive Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    408
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Is there a "not" missing before the word "following"?

    FWIW the rules around driving cars don't say anything about 5.0, that's just advice to keep you away from 4.0, where authorities would start to complain. They do say test every 2 hours though, though that is a fairly recent addition to the rules - for a long time it was just "Must not be hypo".

    I'm looking forward to this. IMO the libre gives a much better idea of whether it's safe or not to drive, especially because it's trivial to read while driving (I get a passenger to wave it at my arm) so you get a much faster idea of problems coming up - I'm a lot more likely to do a quick confirmatory test if it's that easy than if it effectively adds 10 minutes to a journey (wait for suitable stopping point, stop, measure, start again)
     
  11. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,967
    Likes Received:
    1,532
    Trophy Points:
    178
    @KenBachelor Do police officers have the capacity to check?
     
  12. helensaramay

    helensaramay Type 1 · Expert

    Messages:
    6,010
    Likes Received:
    6,000
    Trophy Points:
    178
    I assume they can ask us to prove we were safe to drive and we can do this by showing the history on our test meter.
    If we fail to do so following an accident, I assume I am handing my insurers a reason not to cover me.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,967
    Likes Received:
    1,532
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Same if you don’t have a Libre?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. helensaramay

    helensaramay Type 1 · Expert

    Messages:
    6,010
    Likes Received:
    6,000
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Yes. Al test meters I have used for the last 15 years have a history.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Glucobabu

    Glucobabu Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    55
    Trophy Points:
    68
    I was recently told by my DSN that they would actually ask to see your meter to confirm your last test. I was and still am a little dubious about that!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Glucobabu

    Glucobabu Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    55
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Why would it be different?
     
  17. jackois

    jackois Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    300
    Likes Received:
    272
    Trophy Points:
    123
    I think the showing your meter to the police would be a matter of how switched on the officer is. I would think that a traffic officer would be more clued up on the legislation. There's nothing on the licence indicating that I have diabetes.

    However, the rules say test before driving and then every 2 hours during your journey and it's a matter of a minute to do so.

    That said, I agree with the others that I have enough experience of my diabetes to know whether my blood sugars are rising, falling or stable. I have the Dexcom G5 and am due to change to the G6 after this sensor. For driving it's excellent because it will give a trend bluetoothed to my smartwatch and I can see the general trend and act accordingly.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  18. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,967
    Likes Received:
    1,532
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Just looked on the Freestyle Libre website. Apart from them saying there is a shortage now and that only existing customers will be catered for immediately, they also mentioned the DVLA thing...

    “The DVLA does not consider interstitial fluid glucose readings, such as those provided by the FreeStyle Libre sensors, to be sufficient on their own and drivers must also monitor their blood glucose levels using a traditional blood glucose test.”

    I was going to order one.
     
  19. evilclive

    evilclive Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    408
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Are you on insulin and with a medically restricted licence? If not, then the DVLA rules don't apply to you.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,967
    Likes Received:
    1,532
    Trophy Points:
    178
    No and no, Clive. Simply learning as I go. I might end up Type 2 eventually so am thinking ahead.

    I do not know anything about medically restricted licenses so am wondering who they might apply to and how it might affect me.

    Googling, I see retinopathy and neuropathy is a reason given for restriction, so that could apply to me eventually.

    I am also very interested in the Libre device.

    Does that answer your question @evilclive ?
     
    #20 Listlad, Feb 14, 2019 at 11:02 PM
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook