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The BBC. Don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Discussion in 'Diabetes Soapbox - Have Your Say' started by Roxyj, Sep 10, 2019.

  1. Roxyj

    Roxyj Type 2 · Member

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    I've written to the BBC numerous times. It's a pointless activity. They will seek to justify even blatant breaches of their own editorial code.
     
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  2. Roxyj

    Roxyj Type 2 · Member

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    I decided to do that and got the following response, which was actually quite interesting:

    Thank you for taking the time to contact BBC Good Food, we appreciate your contact and value the opinions of our readers.


    The diabetes-friendly recipes you refer to were compiled in collaboration with Diabetes UK. When compiling the recipes, we understand Diabetes UK based their selection on the standard guidance that people with diabetes should eat a healthy, balanced diet. That being a diet which broadly follows the Eatwell guide (https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/the-eatwell-guide/) and is low in saturated fat, high in fibre and includes a variety of fruit and vegetables, with an emphasis on vegetables.


    In the recipe collection ‘treat’ options have been included, the intention being that these would be occasional choices. However, thank you for bringing specific recipes to our attention, we agree a number of these appear incompatible with the intended selection criteria.


    The BBC food collections (https://www.google.com/search?clien...llections+diabtetes+recipes&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8) that you mention is actually a page from the website of our sister company and not part of BBC Good Food. We will, however, pass your comments on to the relevant team responsible.

    Having received your email we have consulted our Nutritionist, she agrees that with the growing interest in managing carb intake this recipe collection is now due for renewal. As you know, insulin management is very unique to the individual and their circumstances which means carb tolerance will vary. For this reason, the recipe collection needs to accommodate a range of carb contents but we do hope you find some recipes that meet your needs.

    Thank you once again for bringing this to our attention.

    Best wishes,
    BBC Good Food Web Team


    I'd say that classes as a positive result.
     
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  3. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Is this assuming every diabetic uses insulin? And disregarding insulin resistance as a major feature of type 2?
     
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  4. alienskin

    alienskin · Active Member

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    I think an important point to add is that in the Direct Study: "Remission is closely linked to weight loss, 64% of participants who lost more than 10 kilos were in remission at two years".

    In other words, if you stayed with the protocol successfully, then you had a much higher chance of success. Obviously, any approach is dependent on how easy or hard people find to stick with the protocol, but this is a good result.

    I haven't read the final results but if the early Counterpoint study is anything to go by the success of the Newcastle method is dependent on how long you've had diabetes for. It seems that a critical point is around the 4-year mark but varies. The method was far more successful for people recently diagnosed than those who'd had the condition for a number of years. It seems that for the latter the first phase insulin response (presumably due to beta-cell dysfunction) never recovers.

    If the Direct study success rate also included many who'd been diagnosed for a long time then that 64% would be higher for newly diagnosed patients who rigidly stuck to the protocol.

    Hopefully, an equally rigorous study will someday be done for other dietary approaches such as the one's promoted in this thread.
     
  5. Roxyj

    Roxyj Type 2 · Member

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    You'd have to ask the BBC Good Food website that question as they were the ones who said that but it could be what they're implying. If so, it's another illustration of their general lack of suitable knowledge of diabetes and the various ways of dealing with it.
     
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  6. Shiba Park

    Shiba Park Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    But surely LCHF is a form of insulin management?

    Shiba.
     
  7. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    If you mean managing endogenous hyperinsulemia then yes I guess it is, but the way it read (to me anyway) in the letter was referring to exogenous insulin of the type used by all type 1 and some type 2 as that is the more widespread use of the word. Who knows which was meant for sure
     
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  8. Shiba Park

    Shiba Park Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I gree that it is open to interpretation, but to me, as a T1 (who doesn't have the sensitivities that result from the media's and societie's prejudice about T2), I thought the reference to carb tolerance was quite progressive.

    Shiba.
     
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  9. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    These days, almost three years from diagnosis I could probably eat more carbs and not see high BG levels - what would happen though is my weight would increase, in the same rapid manner as it always did.
    I have always seen the same response to carbs, all my adult life. It just took decades for type two to kick in.
     
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  10. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    The cut off point for inclusion in DiRECT was diagnosed less than 6 years.
    And is the problem with DiRECT.. and weight loss by starvation especially.. long term weight loss maintenance is very difficult when it has been achieved using very low calorie diets.
     
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  11. Redshank

    Redshank Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    One off the other criteria for inclusion was BMI over 25, so the original study only had people with A BMI higher than this. Results from the trial are often extrapolated to include all people (no necessarily by Prof Taylor) when the evidence does not yet support this.
     
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  12. alienskin

    alienskin · Active Member

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    Which is why it may be a good protocol for newly-diagnosed but not for longer or medium term.

    Well, that's precisely what the study seeks to find out by doing long term follow-ups. This issue is true for most weight-loss programs. Hence the need for properly supervised studies.

    If the study discovers that it works for a high percentage of recently diagnosed sufferers, but only half stick to the protocol then that is something that a doctor can communicate to a patient. i.e. this approach is not suitable for everyone, but may work for highly-motivated individuals. But this is true for any approach: not everything works for everyone, and the best way to discern is by properly conducted trials.
     
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  13. Walking Girl

    Walking Girl Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I guess difficult is in the eye of the beholder. I most certainly did not starve for the 6 months that I ate approximately 1,350 calories per day (which Prof. Taylor says is a clear alternative to the 800ish calorie per day study protocol). And yet, I’ve maintained my 45 lb weight loss and can eat “carbs” now, almost 2 years later with no issues. I keep to a very healthy moderate carb diet (150-200 complex carbs per day), and very typical of a post- menopausal female who now doesn’t weight much, appropriately 2,000-2,200 calories per day.I do not find this difficult.

    I personally would find very low carb long term - forever - very difficult. YMMV

    And by the way, where is the data you clear asserts exists that shows weight loss for LCHF is more permanent than low calorie? Or ANY diet plan for that matter? Love to see it.
     
    #33 Walking Girl, Oct 11, 2019 at 4:43 AM
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
  14. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    Why starve yourself when you can eat to satiety and maintain weight loss far more easily with low carb?
    For me the starvation route is completely illogical....
     
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  15. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    Look around you here.. there are more members here who have lost more weight than those on the DiRECT study and maintained it for years..
     
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  16. alienskin

    alienskin · Active Member

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    Anecdote is not data.

    A forum gives you no idea of the percentage of success because you have no way of knowing how many people who have failed on a certain program and not reported their failure. If you're going to compare with the DiRECT study then you need to find a study that has the same rigour as that study.
     
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  17. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    I disagree.. I'd far rather take anecdotal evidence from people who have been there and done it than some study that doesn't in the slightest reflect the real world. But that's just me...
    I really don't care about the "percentage" of success as I'm not a percentage.. it has worked exceedingly well for me and I only care about my health..
    What about some more info from you?
     
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  18. alienskin

    alienskin · Active Member

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    But anecdote doesn't reflect the real world, does it? If indeed most of the people who are failing at your method are not posting here their failure then in the real world it may be 90% failure. You cannot know.
    Well, you should. Because if one method only has a 10% chance of success, then it's better not to advise about that method, and you have no idea what percentage is the success rate.

    That is great and I'm happy for you, but you're not everyone. Other people may have success with other methods. Your insistence that because a method worked for you and therefore is the best is not helpful. Other methods may work better for other people.
    It's not relevant because I'm just one person. Yes, Taylor did work for me after losing 17kg (now 13kg three years on). I have an A1c of 5.3% (34), and I passed the 75ml glucose test (Doctor: "this isn't supposed to happen"). I don't eat a particularly low-carb diet but I am careful about what I eat, and I do exercise about 5 hours a week.

    The difference here is that I'm not insisting that Taylor's approach (and btw, it's not a starvation diet - it's a temporary very low-calorie diet where you're getting energy from stored fat) is the only one. He isn't either. But it has the weight of evidence behind it for a particular subset of people.
     
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  19. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    Please show me where I have said that Low Carb is the only way?
    I think it is far easier than starvation (and 800 cals per day can be described as nothing else..).. that is true but I think is an observation that many would support.

    The weight of evidence that says that 36% of people who followed that path had "remission" after 2 years.. where remission is stated to be sub 48 mmol/m HbA1c. I would love to see the individual data for those who were still pre-diabetic of those that had achieved "remission" but I sincerely doubt we ever will.

    Anecdote is the real world my friend..real people telling real stories.
     
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  20. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Anecdotes are pieces of evidence that other people don't like.
     
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