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Type 2 The China Study V LCHF

JohnEGreen said:
"Meat, ma'am, meat," replied Bumble, with stern emphasis. "You've over-fed him, ma'am. You've raised a artificial soul and spirit in him, ma'am, unbecoming a person of his condition
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Yay for Mr Bumble...

Or as my old boss used to say,"you do not feed strawberries to pigs".
 
Indy51 said:
Even so, these are still real clips of real vegans taken from their own self-produced videos published on the net. The people compiling the videos are just re-using the source material.

I think my favourite one is of a guy going absolutely bonkers, repeatedly shouting at the camera for people to "leave the &!$3ing animals alone" - he shouts so hard one of his front teeth falls out :woot:
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I came across a promotional video of a WFPB vegan conference where vegans were being interviewed, I remember that yes they were TOFI and slim, but their skin was sallow, and many looked to be quite undernourished and underweight. It may have been the lighting, but their bone structure was quite pronounced, and their lips were thin and drawn. They were wearing suits, and ties etc so no torso's to see, but it was not a good advert for WFPB, and I stopped being interested.

A journalist attending too also came to this same conclusion and he was a declared vegetarian. He was very critical of the lifestyle in his conference report for a mainstream mag.
 
Kailee56 said:
Long post. Sorry.

I feel your pain. After reading The China Study, I cried because I love dairy products. I switched that day and ate that way for years. It is not just Vegan. It is No Fat Vegan. Well except for a rare nut or small helping of avocado occasionally, something acknowledged but discouraged. Yes, I read and saw it all and had a huge library of information and cookbooks. Still miss the China Study cookbooks granola and some of the happy herbivore’s soups.

So, what happened? Yes, I lost some weight, but I was always hungry, even though I ate huge volumes of food. I also had terrible cravings and missed being able to eat out. There is only one vegan restaurant near me.

Trivia: In the firehouse cookbook, when mentioning blood work, the author says his labs were off because once a year he indulges in a large hamburger which he had done the day before. Interesting because his whole family has eaten this way for years, they write resource and cookbooks about it, and his physician father prescribes it. Yet, he still craves meat.

So, one day I gave into my cravings. I think I had pizza. Over time, I gave in more and more. My weight started to go up and I remembered the Atkins diet from high school. Yes, I am that old. What I found was that I wasn’t hungry and ate less. I also lost the few pounds I had put on when eating carbs, protein, and fat. To me, that meant that my body was happier eating this way. Yes, when I was Vegan I felt morally superior, but my body wasn’t as happy. I stayed low carb/Atkinsish for a year or so, toying with Keto, until I found out I was diabetic. Then I switched to Keto. This is just my story.

Although plant based people will not admit this, recall moral superiority, some LCHF/Keto people will. High carb with low/no fat works well for some people. Just like high fat with low carb works well for some people. I do recall a study that compared the two and I think the conclusion was that the high carb worked well for people with no glucose metabolism issues. Whatever, it seems that carbs + fat does not work well for anyone. I also recall something about non-fat vegan working for overweight T2’s because the body needs fats to make hormones and such, and will pull them out of the liver and pancreas when not included in the diet. This can improve insulin production if it is being inhibited by a fatty pancreas.

Although the author of The China Study points out he was raised on a dairy farm and believed milk to be the perfect food, lending strength to his conversion to a vegan diet, I now question the study. I feel the conclusions are more about eating a processed food diet vs eating a real food diet. There were no areas in China eating a more paleo type diet to add to the mix. The areas compared were either remote and agricultural farming or more industrialized with more processed foods. Comparing the two, yes, agricultural won. But a diet low in carbs was not even on the table. Carbs were either natural or processed, never restricted. For me that means that NO conclusions about the benefit or detriment of LCHF can be drawn from the China Study. Apples and Oranges.

I would seriously consider letting your friends know that you are diabetic and severely carb intolerant. Let them know you respect their choices, but expect them to respect yours in return. That you have done the research, understand their view, but your body is making this choice as to what it can and cannot tolerate. This is your life, literally, and you need to do what is best for your body. Continuing lectures will only lead to resentment and you do not want to lose their friendship over something like food choices.
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What has further been noticed is the minimal amount of feeding per day and the lack direct sugar. Interesting "we" get our cream, butter and milk via a local farm. I was told by the farmer that they do not homogenise their milk as this alters the fat and can make it dangerous for humans. I don't notice anything strange tasting about the milk we buy.
 
Mbaker said:
Interesting "we" get our cream, butter and milk via a local farm. I was told by the farmer that they do not homogenise their milk as this alters the fat and can make it dangerous for humans. I don't notice anything strange tasting about the milk we buy.
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We used to have a house cow and calf, milk went straight from the cow to the coffee cup / cornflakes etc basically.

The only thing we did to the milk was strain it into a big jug to get the dags out.
 
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Oldvatr said:
Another commentary on the China Study89
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-china-study-revisited/

It cites Denise Minger's work on said study, and reviews the Campbell book in light of those findings.

Edit to add another:
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/abcs-of-nutrition/the-china-study-myth/
This one has a good reference and referral listing at the end. Weston A Price are a respected outfit in the health and nutrition scene.
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Thanks for those links. Interesting reading!
 
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