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The Diabetes epidemic

I think the dangerous thing about saying the ND "cures" diabetes is that there was no mention of eating once the diet was finished. My concern would be that people would do the ND, have bg levels back to normal and then start eating as before or even following the NHS guidelines which is probably just as bad, If they are "cured" would there be any follow up appointments in case their bg rose again?
 
The only way you're going to be 'cured' is if the pancreas regains its original insulin production behaviour. Prof Taylor has some evidence that the pancreas can heal to a degree in some cases, which is great, but otherwise if you regain 'normal' blood glucose levels you are just 'controlled' but still diabetic. I prefer this term because it correctly implies that if you stop doing the things that got you to a 'controlled' state then you will quickly go uncontrolled again.
 
Andy12345 said:
i am happy for people to consider themselves cured lol and yes i dont care what that they call it, ill try and explain what i mean, i took exception to the program saying you can cure diabetes with the newcastle diet, it made it sound quick and easy, nothing actually against the newcastle diet or people curing themselves, im very much of the opinion that if people believe they can do something, they can, if you cure, control whatever, thats great, it was more to do with the context ND was used in the program, not the diet or its merits, ive never tried it so i cant comment on how good or bad it is
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I've actually just been able to watch the programme again, with vision this time. I watched it again, mainly because I wanted to see what the kit for HbA1c testing looked like; wondering if it was like the home test kit available in the Sates. It wasn't. Having said all of that, I still took the message from Prof Taylor's brief slot that there may be an opportunity for people, who have had the disease a relatively short time (he suggests under 4 years) to achieve a sea change. I believe Maitland was the one who used the word cure; albeit unchallenged by professor Taylor. And it is on this basis I have always urged newly diagnosed people to act on their condition sooner, rather than later. If firmly believe we have a golden window, before too much damage is done, to achieve our optimum improvement.

A 30 minute programme was never going to do the topic justice. If it was that simple there would be a few YouTube videos and no forum. That we each have our own challenges just demonstrates every single day how tricky this thing is, for every one of us.

Let's face it. If the programme encourages a few people to have the diagnostic tests done, believing they could have a crack at the ND to deal with a diagnosis, it has to be better than this people burying their heads in the sand, wasting that early window. No?
 
aqualung said:
I think the dangerous thing about saying the ND "cures" diabetes is that there was no mention of eating once the diet was finished. My concern would be that people would do the ND, have bg levels back to normal and then start eating as before or even following the NHS guidelines which is probably just as bad, If they are "cured" would there be any follow up appointments in case their bg rose again?
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The new research into the Necastle Diet will follow up.
"As normal meals are reintroduced, the participants will learn how to change their lifestyles permanently." There will be a two year follow up for the participants.

http://www.thejournal.co.uk/news/no...e-university-scientists-diabetes-diet-6171234


http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Research...t/Research-spotlight-low-calorie-liquid-diet/

This research does not end until 2018 so we can only speculate the outcome.

The research is aimed at Type2 diabetics who are overweight but I doubt that it would reverse/cure/put into remission anyone who is not overweight at diagnosis. They would lose too much weight whilst doing the eight to twenty weeks.
 
Syd said:
By the by, if I had followed the NHS recommended diet rather than my own indulgent diet, I am pretty certain I would not have become diabetic.
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Me too.
 
Bluetit1802 said:
I just saw the programme as an attempt to raise awareness of type 2 diabetes amongst the general population and wasn't intended to be an attempt to show how to control it. It focused on the dangers of diabetes and how serious an illness it is, and what signs to look out for such as rotund waist lines and genetics - if those exist, go to the docs. I'm sure there will be many people now making appointments - and that is a good thing. They also made the point that many people, even those already diagnosed, have absolutely no idea that getting type 2 is any worse than getting a cold. I know this to be true judging by the initial reactions of my family and friends when I was diagnosed.
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Well said Bluetit.
At no time during discussion with nurse when she was informing me of my T2 diagnosis did she mention the potential complications. Apparently medical professionals believe that we would be demoralised and scared if we were told. Too f'ing right I'd be scared enough to do something about it. It is almost as if they expect to see us all with progressing difficulties.

I also know many T2 who seem to think they are doing fine because they are following instructions about carb intake, eatwell plate etc. despite them having unpleasant symptoms. I despair!
 
noblehead said:
Decided to watch it before bed last night, I thought it was an interesting programme and not what I was expecting, it highlighted perfectly well the ticking time-bomb that is diabetes.

It didn't just mention obesity as a cause for type 2 as it also mentioned hereditary, ethnicity. & age being a major factor on who might go on to develop the condition. The Risk Assessment Score carried out by DUK in their road-show highlighted something like 70% of those who took part had a high risk of developing type 2, that for me was enough reason why wide-spread screening needs to be introduced asap.

The gent who was an amputee brought home the realities of uncontrolled diabetes, as did the gent who unfortunately lost his life due to major complications, felt for them both especially the widow and family of the gent who lost his life.

I would have liked to have seen more about the marvellous work that Prof Taylor is doing in reversing type 2 with his low-calorie diet, however the programme was only on for 30 mins and there was so much to cram in, pity it wasn't on for a hour or shown over 2-3 nights for a better coverage.

Overall a good programme, albeit too short, if it motivates just a 100 people to take lifestyle issues seriously, prompts them to get tested or risk assessed for diabetes then it's been a success, I'm sure if I fell into any of those categories and didn't already have diabetes it would make me sit-up and think.
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Best post on here.
 
catherinecherub said:
The new research into the Necastle Diet will follow up.

The research is aimed at Type2 diabetics who are overweight but I doubt that it would reverse/cure/put into remission anyone who is not overweight at diagnosis. They would lose too much weight whilst doing the eight to twenty weeks.
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There is the case of a normal weight person who got returned to normal BG levels after 11 days on the Newcastle Diet and wouldn't surprise me if there are more unreported cases. According to Prof Taylor's theory, the cause is an individual visceral fat threshold and it varies widely between individuals - the "Skinny on the Outside, Fat on the Inside" scenario:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/health/420227/Man-cures-his-diabetes-in-11-days-with-starvation-diet

It would be interesting if a study of the ND was done on normal weight people as well.
 
aqualung said:
I think the dangerous thing about saying the ND "cures" diabetes is that there was no mention of eating once the diet was finished. My concern would be that people would do the ND, have bg levels back to normal and then start eating as before or even following the NHS guidelines which is probably just as bad, If they are "cured" would there be any follow up appointments in case their bg rose again?
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Yes, but the guidelines from the Newcastle university team do state that a healthy diet and lifestyle has to be followed after the 600 to 800 calorie diet phase is completed. It is too simplistic to lead people to believe that all they have to do is the 8 week calorie restricted programme.

I am almost 3 years post Newcastle diet, and still have my 3 monthly diabetes blood tests, annual retinopathy, foot check etc. it has been suggested that if I am still having blood glucose in non-diabetic range at next check up in 2 months I may be taken off diabetic register. If this means that I will no longer have the checks I will resist it fiercely.
Also, I will not ever again follow the NHS diet advice of plenty of 'healthy carbs' and will be doing all I can to convince my health care providers how damaging that advice can be.
 
sanguine said:
I prefer this term because it correctly implies that if you stop doing the things that got you to a 'controlled' state then you will quickly go uncontrolled again.
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O K, but this would be the case for any other diet too. It is what a lot of people do when they 'yoyo' diet.
 
Pipp said:
O K, but this would be the case for any other diet too. It is what a lot of people do when they 'yoyo' diet.
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That is the essence of the issue, IMO. There's absolutely no point in attempting the ND if you view it as a 'get out of gaol free' card and plan on returning to "normal" eating afterwards. That kind of thinking is the downfall of every yo-yo dieter since our modern obsession with dieting began.
 
AndBreathe said:
I've actually just been able to watch the programme again, with vision this time. I watched it again, mainly because I wanted to see what the kit for HbA1c testing looked like; wondering if it was like the home test kit available in the Sates. It wasn't. Having said all of that, I still took the message from Prof Taylor's brief slot that there may be an opportunity for people, who have had the disease a relatively short time (he suggests under 4 years) to achieve a sea change. I believe Maitland was the one who used the word cure; albeit unchallenged by professor Taylor. And it is on this basis I have always urged newly diagnosed people to act on their condition sooner, rather than later. If firmly believe we have a golden window, before too much damage is done, to achieve our optimum improvement.

A 30 minute programme was never going to do the topic justice. If it was that simple there would be a few YouTube videos and no forum. That we each have our own challenges just demonstrates every single day how tricky this thing is, for every one of us.

Let's face it. If the programme encourages a few people to have the diagnostic tests done, believing they could have a crack at the ND to deal with a diagnosis, it has to be better than this people burying their heads in the sand, wasting that early window. No?
Click to expand...

I was 6 years diagnosed when I finally persuaded my G P to let me try Newcastle method. I knew if I waited for all the research to be replicated on a large scale, peer reviewed, approved and become NHS protocol time would have run out for me. Thankfully, almost 3 years later I am still
diabetes free/ in remission/ controlled/ cured, whatever you want to call it.
I am not sure the tv programme will encourage people to be tested, but for those who are newly diagnosed T2 I hope that some health professionals will tell them that there is a window of opportunity for them to do something about it. That has to be preferable to the current practice of assuming people will not have either the willpower or the knowledge and incentive to help themselves a bit.
 
To me ND is just another fad dist... Shift weight.. Probably...
Teaches ongoing lifestyle choices for food? ..... Not a chance..

Another yo yo...


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
 
donnellysdogs said:
To me ND is just another fad dist... Shift weight.. Probably...
Teaches ongoing lifestyle choices for food? ..... Not a chance..

Another yo yo...


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
Click to expand...
Ok, I am a yoyo, but my string is broken, because I am almost 3 years non-diabetic blood glucose levels.
I don't like the idea of some of the diets suggested on forum either, but would not dismiss them as useless if I hadn't tried them first. I would not want to put anyone off achieving the success with diabetes control that I have.

Of course, there could be many reasons why people are reluctant to try Newcastle. For example, too weak willed to go 8 weeks without eating any thing but diet products and a few veg. Also, I spoke to someone with T2 recently who is worried that if they reverse their diabetes they will lose sickness and disability benefits.

I believe anyone newly diagnosed T2 needs all the information possible on the various methods to regain b g control, and the support and encouragement to make informed choices. That will not happen if we are so cynical about methods we do not really have experience of ourselves.
 
Well said @Pipp, and disappointing post @donnellysdogs.

I defy anyone just diagnosed with T2 to say that they would not like the chance to put their diagnosis into a suspended state, with a few weeks of hard work. Whether they then follow it through is another matter, but the same can be said of low carbing, or any other lifestyle choice. To assume everything has to be reduced to the lowest common denominator for follow on approach is an insult to intelligent, switched on, motivated individuals.

I didn't have much weight to lose at the outset, but had I known, I'd have given it a whirl. I would just have got very skinny more quickly. Of course some people will decide not to try it based on a plethora of reasons, but like the perennial LCHF versus Low GI, versus Healthy Plate/"balanced diet", we have to accept one approach doesn't suit all. I firmly believe that at diagnosis we should be told about the numerous ways we might tackle our diabetes, then offered a follow up appointment to discuss it again, once we have individually researched the options.

I appreciate T1s with no, or insufficient insulin being naturally produced, will be disinterested in this approach. It wouldn't work, apart from potentially improving any residual insulin resistance, perhaps. But, I don't understand enough about T1 to make those definitive statements.

That it isn't for me doesn't automatically make it a bad idea.
 
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AndBreathe said:
Well said @Pipp, and disappointing post @donnellysdogs.

I defy anyone just diagnosed with T2 to say that they would not like the chance to put their diagnosis into a suspended state, with a few weeks of hard work. Whether they then follow it through is another matter, but the same can be said of low carbing, or any other lifestyle choice. To assume everything has to be reduced to the lowers common denominator for follow on approach is an insult to intelligent, switched on, motivated individuals.

I didn't have much weight to lose at the outset, but had I known, I'd have given it a whirl. I would just have got very skinny more quickly. Of course some people will decide not to try it based on a plethora of reasons, but like the perennial LCHF versus Low GI, versus Healthy Plate/"balanced diet", we have to accept one approach doesn't suit all. I firmly believe that at diagnosis we should be told about the numerous ways we might tackle our diabetes, then offered a follow up appointment to discuss it again, once we have individually researched the options.

I appreciate T1s with no, or insufficient insulin being naturally produced, will be disinterested in this approach. It wouldn't work, apart from potentially improving any residual insulin resistance, perhaps. But, I don't understand enough about T1 to make those definitive statements.

That it isn't for me doesn't automatically make it a bad idea.
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Thank you AndBreathe

By the same token, I would not try LCHF. Why? Because I would be scared that it would cause a raise in my cholesterol levels, which I now have under control. I also still have a lot of weight to lose, so need to be careful about calorific intake. . Does that make me deride those who are following that route? No, instead, I look at the evidence of weight loss and B G they report, and think, "well done, to them" for finding a method that works for them..

I have criticised slimming clubs, as I have experienced them, but accept they are a solution for some. I would not deride anyone for using them.

At least the academic team developing and evaluating the Newcastle diet are not a business, trying to make a profit from people with a need to find a solution to weight management and BG control.

I would urge anyone with T2 not to dismiss the idea of Newcastle dieting. It really is quite simple, 8 weeks out of a life that could well be shortened by a much longer period without BG control.
Having achieved, and maintained non-diabetic status for almost 3 years, six years after diagnosis, I am not going to jeopardise that by adopting a poor diet or lifestyle ever.
As I have no personal experience of T1, I am not in a position to comment on that.
 
I think you have to do what works best for you as no one else knows what else is going on in your life. I couldn't stick to the ND and know that I'd go off rails very quickly and end up doing more damage in a stupid self-sabotaging backlash. Similarly, while I happy with the LC bit of LCHF, I tend to low to moderate fat through taste and not needing any more calories than necessary. I think there's a world of difference between eating the fat on your steak and drinking your coffee with coconut oil, or butter in it- if you didn't do that before, why start? I think that for me , the best diet in the short term is one which eliminates spuds, rice etc but allows me a decent amount of good real foods with some fat to help shift the weight in a sustainable for me way. Long term, I'd hope to be able to have the odd not so low carb day within reason. best of luck to everyone who has had to embark on this journey, whatever route they take to the destination.
 
cold ethyl said:
I think you have to do what works best for you as no one else knows what else is going on in your life. I couldn't stick to the ND and know that I'd go off rails very quickly and end up doing more damage in a stupid self-sabotaging backlash. Similarly, while I happy with the LC bit of LCHF, I tend to low to moderate fat through taste and not needing any more calories than necessary. I think there's a world of difference between eating the fat on your steak and drinking your coffee with coconut oil, or butter in it- if you didn't do that before, why start? I think that for me , the best diet in the short term is one which eliminates spuds, rice etc but allows me a decent amount of good real foods with some fat to help shift the weight in a sustainable for me way. Long term, I'd hope to be able to have the odd not so low carb day within reason. best of luck to everyone who has had to embark on this journey, whatever route they take to the destination.
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That is great, thanks, Coldethyl.
Now that I have reversed the diabetes through Newcastle diet, and maintained the good blood glucose levels for 3 years, my intention is to reduce weight by exercising regularly and eliminating the so called good carbs (pasta, rice, spuds etc). I never have the sugar stuff anyway. I will eat mainly veg, with some fruits, lean protein, and dairy in moderation.
I have been encouraged greatly by others who post on the thread 'a new you in 42'. I am so very grateful. I have a long way to go before I am a healthy weight, and so in danger of B G becoming raised again if I don't take action.
 
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