Sadly this has been so often the case over the years in all matters of science. And we all read the stuff too.I wonder why journalists who write about science don't need any scientific training? Are they really doing their job if they don't understand the subject matter on which they report?
What is the definition of keto?
I can foresee a good documentary that included all of that. We need a Brian Cox of the world of medicine and dietary science to cover it.Speaking literally, nutritional ketosis is any period of time in which the body is burning fat instead of glucose. In this context though - people following ketogenic diets - it’s when the body is fully ‘fat adapted’ meaning that the primary metabolic pathway is ketosis as opposed to glycolysis. Obviously there should remain some flexibility in either direction. Burning glucose for fuel carries the lowest energy penalty over amino and fatty acids, and so we use it as a natural priority. From an evolutionary perspective this is to allow us to quickly and easily store energy as body fat in times of plenty (summer) so it can be used in times of hardship (winter).
To persuade the body to effectively “give up” trying to burn glucose as the primary energy source, you typically need to restrict carbohydrate ingestion to ~20-50g per day - or wait for an ancestral winter in which Sainsbury’s didn’t have boxes of glucose on the shelves 24/7/365. Personally I operate at around 10g or less (a permanent winter), or effectively net zero carbs besides non-starchy vegetables. In any case it’s a lot less than is mostly used in these studies, so the conclusions are almost always meaningless from the outset.
We will have to agree to differ there. There is a lot to be gained by making it clear what “low” means or any other shade of “low”, lest we give the press more chance / opportunity of getting it wrong.
That as well.You are forgetting that the object of media is to sell more media. The greater the headline the bigger the profit. Truth and honesty is a poor second (or third) to profit and to some extent the personal opinions of the owners of newspapers/media outlets influences those headlines.
A pretty rubbish one...I am not sure what type of study was that
An ex fat geezer kind of thing?.. bit like 2 fat ladies with the motorbike you mean?On a lighter note, perhaps a roadshow up and down the country with some characters such as Bulkbiker and Jim Lahey fronting them might be a good idea.
I wasn’t thinking of the ex fat geezer thing. More the fervent advocate with the science behind it all. But you must have Anthony Worrell Whatshisface with you, knocking up some tasty low carb treats for the crowds.An ex fat geezer kind of thing?.. bit like 2 fat ladies with the motorbike you mean?
I'm not sure that @Jim Lahey would fit that definition so we couldn't have 2 ex fat geezers but sounds like fun.. just need to get a sidecar!
No thanks.. !But you must have Anthony Worrell Whatshisface with you,
I'm not sure that @Jim Lahey would fit that definition
How about Hugh Fearnley Wittingstall then. You might need to train him up, but he had a recent diabetes shock.No thanks.. !
The thing is, this news story may not be complete tosh.
There are definite links between low magnesium and irregular heart beats. In fact irregular heart beats are listed as a symptom of low Mag on every site I have checked. Here is are some examples.
https://ketodietapp.com/Blog/lchf/the-importance-of-magnesium-in-low-carb-diets
https://drbubbs.com/blog/2017/1/top-3-mineral-deficiencies-on-a-ketogenic-diet-and-how-to-fix-it
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/magnesium-deficiency-symptoms#section7
Then there are links between low carb eating, and lower intake of certain nutrients - including magnesium and postassium, both of which contribute to keto flu and muscle function - and irregular heart beats, when levels get low enough.
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/keto/supplements
https://perfectketo.com/keto-micronutrients/
Of course, the study quoted in the news article is not talking about keto, or even about low carbing (in the sense it is used on this forum, which is usually under 130g carbs a day).
And it is perfectly possible to get all necessary nutrients when people follow a well formulated keto or low carb diet, with a range of foods in the needed in appropriate portion sizes. There are many, many magnesium and potassium rich foods available to low carb/ketoers, if they choose to eat them.
If anyone wants to check whether they are hitting the recommended daily amounts of vitamins, minerals, protein and omegas, then there are some excellent Apps out there which will track things for you. I use the free version of Cronometer. It was quite an eye opener for me, and my diet is now more well formulated than it was!
As with most things, the longer we keep doing something, the more 'normal' it feels, and the more likely we are to rack up long term consequences - and that includes badly forumulated diets, whether they are keto, WFPB or Weight Watchers. So it is worth doing a periodic self-assessment, just to make sure things are ticking along nicely.
I am skipping “33 more posts” to add my 2 cents to this. When I first began reducing bread carbs 7-8 months ago (had not found here yet) my normally slightly erratic heart (despite a serious medication and an ablation a few years ago) went ape-split. I was very uncomfortable. 7 months later and while it doesn’t do quite like that right now, my cardiologist has researched me a couple of times. She also wanted to know my magnesium number. Which is normal. I am seeing her again soon to talk about all those electrolyte-y things at my request. Other numbers, including “osmolality”, are low, which I believe isn’t really good for me. Sodium low (been so for years) and dropping , which is new. So I may fit within the set of results they might have gotten had they counted “mostly benign” arrhythmias in their study.
I’d like the study to be done with a large number of patients who must be gluten-free due to celiac. And again with a large number of people with so many severe fruit allergies that they don’t eat it. And again with the subset of all those people who have both conditions in their WOE. Just out of curiosity....
Hi @zauberflote , can I ask you to describe “slightly erratic heart”? Do you mean as in not a regular beat like a metronome or that the overall rate changes a lot even under static conditions?I am skipping “33 more posts” to add my 2 cents to this. When I first began reducing bread carbs 7-8 months ago (had not found here yet) my normally slightly erratic heart (despite a serious medication and an ablation a few years ago) went ape-split. I was very uncomfortable. 7 months later and while it doesn’t do quite like that right now, my cardiologist has researched me a couple of times. She also wanted to know my magnesium number. Which is normal. I am seeing her again soon to talk about all those electrolyte-y things at my request. Other numbers, including “osmolality”, are low, which I believe isn’t really good for me. Sodium low (been so for years) and dropping , which is new. So I may fit within the set of results they might have gotten had they counted “mostly benign” arrhythmias in their study.
I’d like the study to be done with a large number of patients who must be gluten-free due to celiac. And again with a large number of people with so many severe fruit allergies that they don’t eat it. And again with the subset of all those people who have both conditions in their WOE. Just out of curiosity....
I had AFib for 2 periods of 2 years. The first one did start when i started to reduce carbs to lose weight. However I am sure the AFib was caused by doing very physical work whilst I was low on magnesium.
I have been low carbing to various degrees since 2011 and haven't had a prolonged spell of AFib since 2012. If I notice that I am in AFib nowadays I have one dose if magnesium and I go back into sinus rhythm within minutes.
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