The low-carb cause

[noblehead]

There always seems to be a debate on the forum of who is right, or or is wrong when it comes to controlling and managing our diabetes. It mostly comes about when diet is at the forefront of the discussion, with various opinions on what are the appropriate foods to eat nutritionally and which have as little impact on our blood glucose, therefore beneficial to long-term health. Most (not all) would agree though, that it does not matter how you choose to control your condition, be it diet, meds and insulin, or a combination of them all, what is important is that we are in control and achieving good bg readings and feel healthy as a result.

Now then, there are those that would beg to differ here, and believe that there is only one way and those that don't follow are considered lesser mortals. This is evident on another forum where there is a certain character, who in writing in defence of Hana's post 'Very politically correct' he wrote the following about everyone on this forum who doesn't follow or questions the low-carb approach:

'She fights the low carb cause at every opportunity. Often riddiculed by the high carb, high meds, nothing better to do with their time, and often complication riddled, full time posters she fights against'.

The above statement that this clown has written has to be the most horrible and disrespectful piece of writing that I have come across recently, mainly due to the fact that it is aimed at fellow diabetics who do not warrant such bitter and vile abuse. So, if we can take it that this character is representing the low-carb community, we can see why they will never win their cause.

It is a great shame really, because there are intelligent respectful people like Fergus who do represent the low carb community, and would never in a month of sundays write such a article. I don't think that people like Fergus will sit comfortably with fools like this who are outspoken, fanatical, and ****-right insulting to others. With this in mind, I don't think that they will ever win their day in the wider community!

Nigel

 

[Debloubed]

well said Nigel! each to their own but may we all remember that those who do and those who don't are really, all on the same side

 

[lovinglife]

Wonderful post Nigel - a point I made in the other thread - its all about respect - I was brought up to believe that once someone resorts to name calling or bad language they have nothing left to back up their argument with and have lost the debate.

I don't dispute that it working for them - I am genuinely happy for them - It doesn't work for me - end of - I have found something that does - I haven't failed because I need meds - I have succeeded because I have the meds - I started in June last year on insulin, then reduced to max dose Glic & Met - then they were halved some months ago - I am hoping in the future to reduce the glic further- that to me with a weight loss of 89 lbs BS of 6.4 and hardly ever over 7 2 hrs after a meal to me is a success.

Why do low carbers believe that if we are not eating less than 50g of carbs a day we are eating kilos of mash and pasta and white bread? - I do restrict my carbs to 130g a day - Why can't people respect that. :roll:

 

[jopar]

lovinglife

In a way I hope that you've got a sore back, with all the patting for your achievments well done you...

I can not fathom out, why others precieve that because I to must munch through mountins of carbs a day and follow this with injecting vast amounts of insulin to attempt to control my blood sugar levels, or where the assumption comes from that because I have no optiion to inject insulin that I'm as fat as a walrus...

The only assumption that I can think of, is that I am being judge by what they did and how this effected them personally...

When I say I've had

A roast dinner with roast potatoes, they visualise there plates, perhaps 5 or 6 large roast potatoes on it.. Reality I have 2 or 3 small roast potatoes around 30g worth..

When I say I had a fish and chip tea from the chip shop, they assume that I've had a large portion of chips and large piece of fish, as this is what they've would've ordered and ate

Reality, 1 medium portion of chips is shared between myself and my husband (he gets a larger portion) with even enough to left over to give the dog a treat..

If I said I had a tuna sandwich for lunch, they would assume that I had 4 slices of thick hand cut bread because this what they used to eat...

If I had pasta meal for lunch, then they would visualise a 12inch plate piled full of pasta, because this was how there plate looked... My pasta meal sits nicely on a tea plate, with a side salad..

As to the effect on me personally, well I actually weigh 8.5 stone as to my insulin use its around 17-20 units of insulin so says a lot..

As to comments made on other forums, which attack those that post on here for what ever reason unwarrented, as if you attack or riddicue others they have the right to address what you say...

The best method of control long term for the diabetic, is the diet that the individual can follow day in and day out, one that is second nature to them, one that they don't have to constantly considered think about and work at sustaining there choices, if they require medication to achieve this status quo then all be it.. If there goal is set sligthly higher it's there goal not mine or anothers, after all the stress and strain both mentally and physically attempting to follow something that perhaps you may not achieve with out a great struggle could acutally be more harmful in the long term for the individual... Living with diabetes is all about living today as well as living tomorrow with a quaility of life that you'll happy with, not one that appises anothers..

 

[bufferz]

and dont forget you only get one go at this 'life' thing, so why deprive yourself, and start hitting yourself with birch twigs everytime you think of something with carbs, or whatever in, its no good when you get the pearly gates and are asked if you had any regrets, you cant then say "ooh i wish i had eaten more spuds!", :lol:

 

[GazzaNG4]

Interesting conversation you have started here noble.

It's funny isn't it, this perception that some people in society harbour, the one where they think they know what's best for all & sundry.

My personal opinion is that if someone sticks to a healthy balanced diet then they won't got far wrong. Part of that diet should take account of the occasional treat as well because like someone else said, we have a life to live & it's no dress rehearsal.

If low carb suits someone then great, stick with it. It doesn't mean that everyone will get on with it does it.

Now this may sound a little inflammatory but I actually get the feeling sometimes that some people revel in their diabetes & are pains to tell people how it has effected their lives & so very poorly they would be if they didn't do this or that. I once heard a chap in the Dr's waiting area complaining that he had been waiting to see the Doc, he came our with a corker to the receptionist when told that the Dr would be free very shortly "You do realise that I have diabetes & could collapse at any minute don't you?" I nearly burst my sides with laughter.

 

[brianb]

Jopar

Thanks for your message it was inspiring.

I've been type 2 for 18 months and just recently started on Metformin, working upto 4 X 500mg a day. I was feeling like i'd failed because I was started on the meds, but i did try with diet, tried very low carb but was just always hungry and to be honest miserable and i just could not manage those magic numbers that some report.

Anyway your post made me feel better for starting metformin......and its starting to work
as well

THANKS

Brian

 

[Debloubed]

as to my insulin use its around 17-20 units of insulin so says a lot..

Jopar, I think this speak volumes as 17-20 must seem like a lot to people who don't have to live with insulin dependency! I know that 17-20 is a pretty low number when all things are considered and you must have pretty good control to maintain such a low qty of insulin each day. I have just reduced my over all daily intake from a combined 36 units (pre-pump) to around 20 (with pump) but that is a work in progress, may go up, may go down but i'm getting some pleasing results so far

 

[Debloubed]

"You do realise that I have diabetes & could collapse at any minute don't you?" I nearly burst my sides with laughter.

that is so funny!! and we wonder why those who don't have diabetes think that those who do are about to drop down dead at any given moment :lol:

 

[Jen&Khaleb]

Khaleb is 3 yrs old and gets 14 units of insulin a day. I would of thought this normal and so do his medical team. He is getting a bit underweight so I am increasing his quantity of food so will no doubt be upping this dose slightly.

My only comment on the low-carb debate is that there are plenty of places to discuss low carbing without preaching to those that don't agree. I can't even work out exactly what low carb is. Is it eating less than 50gm, 100gm, 150gm and is it compared with the persons activity and size? Does the low carber feel guilt and self loathing when eating foods banned from the diet? It nearly seems like an eating disorder rather than a diet.

 

[Synonym]

I can't even work out exactly what low carb is.

Neither can I! :roll: I just eat to my meter, learning from experience what causes spikes, and I don't necessarily count what I have - perhaps I should but seem to be managing ok as I am.

I don’t really understand all the hooey about who is right and who is wrong because clearly if your diet, exercise and medication work for you then it is ‘right’. Neither do I understand the thinking behind it being a problem about taking medication if it helps you, nor do I view taking medication as a licence to ‘cheat’ in order to eat carbs. Everybody else with a normal pancreas regularly eats carbohydrates without thinking and I also used to do so before my pancreas let me down so where on earth has the ‘cheating’ scenario come from? :?

We are all created unique and will have very different reactions to differing scenarios, foods and medications so will all have to follow slightly different paths to one another and that is really alright, A1 and OK and allowed! 8)

I think that in all likelihood we will all get to a point where we have tried different approaches and have worked out what suits us best and can them make a decision on how we want to carry on living. There are no set rules about how we live our lives with diabetes and the decision of how we live our own life is ours alone with help from experts, family and friends; there is no problem with that and no-one should be made to feel that there is one.

I have no agenda except not wanting to feel ill again and also not wanting to be a problem to my friends who ask me to come and eat with them - when they can sort out what to feed me. In addition I quite enjoyed eating a wide variety of things in the past and would rather like to be able to do so again at some point. I just hope that if/when I come to the forum and ask for advice about how I go about it there won’t be a stooshie! :roll:

 

[ally5555]

There is no real definition of low carb - one has been posted on here but it is someones opinion.

If you use the 50% of calories from carb model then for an average female needing around 1900 calories then she would need 250g approx. Now that may seem a lot but break it down.

Milk( a pint any type) =30g CHO

5 fruit and veg =50-60 g approx

This leaves 160-170g CHO for meals and snacks . If you spread this through meals and snacks it means that around 30-40g per meal but this can vary. The carbs need to be low GI of course and eaten with protein(2-3 helpings a day).

This is not a low fat plan either - along with this the fat is around 70-75g /day - fat comes from the fat in protein foods , butter/marg and some olive oil for cooking.

Of course for men the figures are higher.

So if you look at this as a model then it does not mean that people are being encouraged to eat plenty of carbs - problem is that is really open to interpretation! Clearer portion sizes would be useful.

Now for a diabetic I work on around 40% carbs which in effect cuts the carbs at meals and also does not encourage refined carbs like DMUK does.

Anything less than 50% carbs could be considered low carb - interestingly Bernstein describes his regime as VERY LOW CARB! I have just listened to a pod cast of his and he describes his diet as paleolithic - since when have bacon and hotdogs been that!! Listening to this earlier he didnt seem to be interested in type 2.

Hope that helps because i have a feeling most people do not realise how this is all worked out - oh and if you wonder why I do I am a dietitian!

The normal calculation is 50% of calories from carbs, 10-15% from protein and 30-35% from fat.

allyx

 

[Administrator]

mainly due to the fact that it is aimed at fellow diabetics who do not warrant such bitter and vile abuse.

This is exactly what I have never been able to understand, either why it is felt or why it is permitted on this other forum? Surely the goal should be to help other diabetics...

It's a kind of club/gang thing. Many of the most vocal low-carbers actually often fall off the wagon/restrict carbs less than those they actively criticize...

I think everybody knows that limiting carb intake is an extremely positive dietary step

 

[catherinecherub]

I don't know about club/gang thing. I think it is more a forum bully being enabled by other forum members. Forum bullies are not necessarily liked by the more respected members of the forum and it's members but are tolerated because they appear to be part of the inner circle. Really they are a troll with a false perception of their own power and need firm handling.
Typically they start off being helful but as their power grows then their true nature is revealed and as they evolve they attract followers as a useful back up. The bully can only exist with the consent of the forum members.

There are some really nice people on the other forum and it seems that the actions of one person taint everyone there.

We all have one thing in common and we should all be helping each other as best we can regardless of how we manage this chronic condition. There is no right or wrong way , the way that works for you is what it is all about.

 

[Giblet]

We all have one thing in common and we should all be helping each other as best we can regardless of how we manage this chronic condition. There is no right or wrong way , the way that works for you is what it is all about.

hear hear, couldn't agree more. I know I have diabetes, but I also have a huge issue with weight and have been referred to St Georges for Bariatric surgery. I have tried very hard since diagnosis to control my figures cutting out sweets crisps and sugar, but to save me falling off the wagon completely, still probably eat too many carbs. I come here for help and inspiration, not to be told that I am bad for not low carbing. Thank god for people like Catherine and others in this thread who understand we are human, not machines and treat as such.

 

[Synonym]

Thank you Ally for your very rounded explanation, that is really helpful and it confirms that what I am doing is sensible (for me) as it is very nearly what I am doing based on my own common sense and own calculations.

I am not yet able to eat that many carbs, whatever it comes from, as my BG level just soars but hopefully as I get better and my exercises help to get back some more muscle tone my body may become more ‘efficient’ and I’ll get there in the end. Fortunately my weight loss seems to have slowed as my muscles are re-appearing! :roll:

I am fending off the meds as long as I can but am aware that I probably can’t do it indefinitely and it is a matter of keeping on top of things as everything is constantly changing. I don’t think there is such a thing as normality when you live with diabetes.

 

[ally5555]

Your welcome - tbh and please do not take this the wrong way but alot of posters make comments about so called high carb / low fat diets without really understanding it! I spent 4 years in uni studying so that is understandable!

What I find interesting is that the low carbers are often consuming alot less fat than they think and some studies have shown that it is the fact that they are so low in calories that they are bound to result in wt loss. I know it generates alot of flak on here and I have been shouted at by various people that have been banned from here but you do have to take more care when you low carb as it is deficient in some minerals and vitamins. But the thing that unites everyone is that you must stay away from sugar and refined carbs - I get really annoyed with DMUK as they still encourage this !!

I am also curious to explore whether the advice given to people at diagnosis influences outcomes - so many people get terrible advice from other HCP - maybe this is more important!

 

[markd]

I'll probably regret this, but what is this evil 'other forum''?

I do find this forum very helpful, but the one thing missing - to me, is a separate subforum for pre-diabetics. There is one on at least one US forum and as the incidence of diabetes is increasing, it seem sto me that trying to intervene as early as possible is a good idea.

When I first joined here and knew nothing at all about the condition, the mixture of T1 and T2 in almost every forum was really offputting - especially stories about hypos and other serious complications.

I found it far from comfortable here, until I learnt enough to filter out stuff that wasn't relevant to me.

mark.

 

[ally5555]

ah - it is a low carb forum where all is holier than though!! It is a bit like the "Stepford WIVES "

There are some great people on here but there are so many posts it can get a bit overwhelming - funny i only started posting when I became insensed at the stuff written about dietitians !!!

 

[noblehead]

ah - it is a low carb forum where all is holier than though!! It is a bit like the "Stepford WIVES "

There are some great people on here but there are so many posts it can get a bit overwhelming - funny i only started posting when I became insensed at the stuff written about dietitians !!!

And keep posting ally, your knowledge, advice and experience is most welcome on this forum!

Nigel