The low-carb cause

[Debloubed]

well said Giblet. I wish you all the best with your op, from what I've read on the t'internet there is a high success rate with weight loss after such surgery so I have my fingers crossed for you!!

 

[Giblet]

Thanks very much. I don't say what I say to try to cause controversy. It's just we can all do with some support sometimes, and I like to come here for just that, but it all gets a bit too much sometimes! I have a long wait. for surgery, probably another twelve months, but it will be worth it to get my life back again.

 

[IanD]

By all means tackle your diabetes & other health problems by all available means. I wish you well.

Those of us who bang the reduced carb drum do so because it is not even suggested as a possibility by NHS/DUK & our dietitians, yet when we have gone that way, have found great benefit.

That isn't hostility but seeking to direct others to the way that has given us a new lease of life.

5 years ago, I too would have rejected the need for carb control/reduction, but 2 years ago I was becoming crippled with neuropathy. Low carbing restored my activity.

 

[noblehead]

By all means tackle your diabetes & other health problems by all available means. I wish you well.

Those of us who bang the reduced carb drum do so because it is not even suggested as a possibility by NHS/DUK & our dietitians, yet when we have gone that way, have found great benefit.

That isn't hostility but seeking to direct others to the way that has given us a new lease of life.

5 years ago, I too would have rejected the need for carb control/reduction, but 2 years ago I was becoming crippled with neuropathy. Low carbing restored my activity.

That's fine Ian, it is pleasing that you have found a way of overcoming your problems. I don't in all honestly have any problems with people low-carbing, I have reduced my carb intake too in the last 12 months. The problem I have is, that it is fine to recommend a diet plan that reduces bg's and hba1c, and also helps with weight issues, but to ignore the dangers that are associated with such diets, and be dismissive at every opportunity even though the evidence is stacked against it, beggars believe. As we have said before, diet advice and what one should and should not eat should be carried out on a personal bases with a qualified gp, diabetes consultant or dsn, who are aware of your past and present medical history. To recommend a diet high in saturated fat to someone with a history of heart disease is **** right dangerous, the same can be said with someone with a history of kidney disease, no one is in a position to diagnose or suggest dietary changes unless they are suitably qualified.

Take Graham64 for example, he is so deluded that he thinks he knows more about diet and nutrition than ally, who is a qualified dietitian with many years of experience, dealing with patients with diabetes on a daily bases, so given the opportunity who's advice do you think that I value and would take on board? Most low-carbers only ever come on-line when they see a opportunity to brain wash someone looking for diet advice, with the exception when they come on to refute evidence that proves there are risks involved with a LC diet. Many on this forum, some who have contributed to this thread, are here day after day offering advice and information based on their own knowledge and experience, no matter what the subject matter is.

Perhaps it would be better that people refrain from offering dietary advice and sticking to helping people overcome the difficulties that are associated with diabetes on a daily bases.

Best wishes

Nigel

 

[Debloubed]

By all means tackle your diabetes & other health problems by all available means. I wish you well.

Those of us who bang the reduced carb drum do so because it is not even suggested as a possibility by NHS/DUK & our dietitians, yet when we have gone that way, have found great benefit.

That isn't hostility but seeking to direct others to the way that has given us a new lease of life.

5 years ago, I too would have rejected the need for carb control/reduction, but 2 years ago I was becoming crippled with neuropathy. Low carbing restored my activity.

Ian, that is great news for you, I'm genuinely pleased that you have found a way to combat your problems and you are happy with your low carb diet choices What I object to is the insinuations from certain posters that using any kind of medication means I am not managing my diabetes well. Since I've joined this forum I am lower carbing than ever before, mainly because I've found some fab recipes! But I won't ever be at the stage where I will be medication free so I turn something bad into something good and enjoy carbs in my diet as I am able to balance that with medication. I'm not overweight nor do I have any other health problems because of my choice to include carbs in my diet.

Not everyone is so lucky that they can manage their Diabetes by reducing/avoiding carbs.

 

[IanD]

Graham - what I tried to show there was what all this nonsense about high carb/low fat stuff is all about. It is a myth that so called "healthy eating" is low in fat when clearly it is not. I have tried to expalin waht this is all about as maybe some people have not understood it! I have analysed alot of low carbers diets and they are lower in fat than the normal! An average man needs around 90 g / day.

90 g fat per day & few of us eat that much. The message from the NHS is to cut down drastically on fat; the chef AW Thompson goes to the lengths of not eat egg yolk because of their fat content.

What are the consequences of not eating enough fat? When you are confronted with such a dieter, what do you see as symptoms, & how should we ensure we get our 90 g fat. Its a lot of cheese & nuts - or even chips.

 

[ally5555]

You see ian this is the problem - the rec amount works out at 90g for a man and 70-5g for a woman. you will get this from 2-3 protien portions , a pint of semi skim milk and 2-3 fat portions - butter. oil etc.

maybe the head of the FSA is saying that , I am not sure but real Dietitians and qualified Nutritionists do not and never have.

So what this is showing me is that when you are making statements about high carb / low fat you do not understand how it is calculated - that is not a criticism by the way !

Low carbers do struggle with fat intakes because you can only add so much oil , butter etc to you food!

Consequences of low fat intakes - not meeting calorie requirements, essesntial fatty acids and some fat soluble vitamins

 

[jopar]

Ian

I beg to differ, stop banging your drum for a moment then you might hear!

Its remarks like yours actually show the true colours of your campaign indeed... And are blatantly aimed to hurt...

Where is the praise and support for what Gibet has achieved?
This improvement means that Gibet has shown a lot of self-discipline, I would also hazard a guess a weight reduction, increase in their self esteem all which under-pins continued improvements... We can do a lot of good and provide support to Gibet by recognising these achievements positively as our encouragement then provides encouragement to continue with what they do...

Being negative and deeming totally based on they haven’t achieved to your standard, or in/using the manner you deem appropriate does nothing more than destroy their self esteem, their ability to maintain and up-hold their personal battle..

I do not begrudge Gibet this operation, as I know that they have done everything in their empowerment to avoid it and will continue to do so until the day of the operation... You never know with the right positive support, Gibet may never have to face this operation 12 months is a long time if not, then at least the support will help to ensure that Gibet is as physically fit at possible to undergo the operations...

 

[Giblet]

Thank you Jopar for your comments. I try to get on without having to explain myself, but I feel perhaps I should say something at this juncture. On Diagnosis I weighed 27stone four pounds. Today just under two years later I weigh 24 stone 4 pounds. I try really hard to take advice from everyone including low carbers and implement those bit I feel I can without falling off the wagon. I want to be well, just as much as I want to lose weight. I have my own gremlins to deal with, but I have really tried hard. I test regularly and with my GP have managed to get my A1c down to 6.7 from nearly 10. I don't want to be congratulated on the progress I have achieved, I just want to be accepted for who I am and to be given advice that might help me to improve things more. I don't care if people are low carbers or not, I just want advice, not to be left feeling as though I am a failure, It really doesn't help you know. I will persevere because I believe there are many people on here Like Jopar, who won't judge me. John B

 

[Debloubed]

I test regularly and with my GP have managed to get my A1c down to 6.7 from nearly 10. I don't want to be congratulated on the progress I have achieved, I just want to be accepted for who I am and to be given advice that might help me to improve things more. who won't judge me.

John, no judgement here! that is a fantastic reduction in numbers with or without low carbs and with or without meds. well done you!! oops, sorry, I just congratulated you :wink: :lol:

 

[Giblet]

No problem, I'll let you off this time!

 

[phoenix]

Ian, one thing is you are writing about fat as if it were one thing... not distinguishing between the types.
The NHS and FSA do not do this. The 90g of total fat for men and 70g for women is well publised as is the max recc. amount of 30g sat fat for men and 20g for women. (though I think they are averages based on an average calorie need which is why people with diabetes should have individual advice from people like Ally)
This NHS article makes clear that some fats are good for you... though all are high in calories.
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Goodfood/Pages/Fat.aspx
Incidently, I don't find it hard to eat that many. I was looking at the Harvester nutritional info as my parents insist on us going there when we go home. A prawn cocktail contains half my daily amount, a ladleful of blue cheese dressing almost a third, and as for the puddings, well it's a good thing I ignore them.

Giblet, well done so far(whether you want congrats or not!) I really hope you can find support here that helps you continue that progress.

 

[hanadr]

latest research has shown that there is not as much difference in health giving properties between saurated and non saturated fats.
I wonder we still use those terms. How many people know what they mean or how to tell one from the other? It would be mych easier for most people to refer to solid animal fats and plant oils.
Hana

 

[phoenix]

How many people know what they mean or how to tell one from the other? It would be mych easier for most people to refer to solid animal fats and plant oils.

I agree that many can't and don't differentiate, indeed FSA research confirms this and it is the target of it's current campaign. It might seem easier to differentiate between sources of fat but some vegetable oils also have high amounts of sat fat. Possibly ,as knowledge grows , there will be more focus on the effects of individual types of sat fat ( along with even more confusion) Partially hydrogenated veg oils contain transfat which I'm sure we can agree is not beneficial to anyone.

 

[graham64]

Noblehead

Take Graham64 for example, he is so deluded that he thinks he knows more about diet and nutrition than ally, who is a qualified dietitian with many years of experience, dealing with patients with diabetes on a daily bases.

For your information my diet is overseen by a senior dietitian at a large teaching hospital, who I'm sure is just as qualified as Ally, and is in the same age group so also has many years of experience.

As for “he is so deluded” I'll leave those type of comments to you, as you seem well versed in the subject.

Graham

 

[jopar]

Noblehead

Take Graham64 for example, he is so deluded that he thinks he knows more about diet and nutrition than ally, who is a qualified dietitian with many years of experience, dealing with patients with diabetes on a daily bases.

For your information my diet is overseen by a senior dietitian at a large teaching hospital, who I'm sure is just as qualified as Ally, and is in the same age group so also has many years of experience.

Graham

I am now confused, but dietitians don't promote extreme low carb diets?

And sorry to say that just because it's being overseen, doesn't actually mean that you yourself, understand and have great knowledge of nutrition!!

It would be a bit like me saying, that has I have had my diabetes overseen by a consultant endo for the past 21 years, that I am also an Endo and know everything there is to know... I am a expert in my own diabetes nobody else's... I have a wealth of knowledge and understanding in diabetes in general, and any information I supply will be mainly based on this with a dash of anecdotal information in how/what works for me..

I wonder how your consultant/friend would feel, if he saw how you **** of his profession, and the HCP in general.. I very much susppect he/she wouldn't be very chuffed at all.. Talking about stabbing people in the back.. Seems to be quite commom amoungst extreme low carbers

 

[noblehead]

For your information my diet is overseen by a senior dietitian at a large teaching hospital, who I'm sure is just as qualified as Ally, and is in the same age group so also has many years of experience.

Well why didn't you mention this earlier, of course that makes you more suitably qualified than ally! :lol:

As for “he is so deluded” I'll leave those type of comments to you, as you seem well versed in the subject.

I think we will leave that one for others to decide!
Graham

Regards

Nigel

 

[sugarless sue]

Personal comments to members, whether deemed a joke or not, are not tolerated on the board. Please stick to debating the subject in hand and leave personalities out of the equation.

 

[John aka Wallycorker]

...........On Diagnosis I weighed 27stone four pounds. Today just under two years later I weigh 24 stone 4 pounds.............I want to be well, just as much as I want to lose weight. I have my own gremlins to deal with, but I have really tried hard. I test regularly and with my GP have managed to get my A1c down to 6.7 from nearly 10. I don't want to be congratulated on the progress I have achieved ...........

Hi John,

Sorry! However, whether you want it or nor I need to send my congatulations on what you have achieved so far. Well done! Keep on track!

Very best wishes - John

 

[graham64]

Graham

I am now confused, but dietitians don't promote extreme low carb diets?

I'm not on an extreme Low Carb diet, so how do you come to that conclusion? But she did put me on high sat fat, so perhaps you can still be confused!

And sorry to say that just because it's being overseen, doesn't actually mean that you yourself, understand and have great knowledge of nutrition!!

This could equally apply to you!!

It would be a bit like me saying, that has I have had my diabetes overseen by a consultant endo for the past 21 years, that I am also an Endo and know everything there is to know... I am a expert in my own diabetes nobody else's... I have a wealth of knowledge and understanding in diabetes in general, and any information I supply will be mainly based on this with a dash of anecdotal information in how/what works for me..

Thats fine as long as you supply the information to fellow T1s..

I wonder how your consultant/friend would feel, if he saw how you **** of his profession, and the HCP in general.. I very much susppect he/she wouldn't be very chuffed at all.. Talking about stabbing people in the back.. Seems to be quite commom amoungst extreme low carbers

Perhaps Jopar you should look back at some of your comments, as soon as Low carb HCP such as Dr Bernstein, Dr Kendrick etc. are mentioned you **** them off don't you? Seems to be common amongst extreme high carbers.. And don't forget a HCP on this forum slags off his fellow HCPs that in my opinion is far worse..

Graham