The role of ketones in health?

[douglas99]

I sometimes show +4 on the Ketostix and mostly show +3 on a daily basis simply down to my low carb regime and I've had no ill effects whatsoever as my Bg's are well controlled although of course I'm very careful during illness when my BG's run high no matter what I eat.

Paul

To be fair though, without actually measuring the calcium in your urine, or measuring bone density, you're unlikely to see any side effects.

Why does you're BG rise if you're ill? It shouldn't be possible if you still don't eat carbs and are still burning fat instead should it?

 

[mrman]

Can someone answer what ketones burn for fuel instead when fat stores are used up, or when the body needs quick
Fuel for activity?

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[douglas99]

Can someone answer what ketones burn for fuel instead when fat stores are used up, or when the body needs quick
Fuel for activity?

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The idea is you, well two views really, you either eat a limited amount of fat to use as a fuel source, and plan your meals to replace the calorific value of the carbs with fats, or you can just eat unlimited fat, and the body will expel what it doesn't need to burn. No reserves though.

 

[fatbird]

Nice to see some forum users with common sense douglas99 and brett
People need to look at the bigger picture when health is involved ]

Nothing like running non diabetic BG numbers and a good lipid panel where health is concerned.

FB

 

[lacey1]

Nice to see some forum users with common sense douglas99 and brett
People need to look at the bigger picture when health is involved ]

Nothing like running non diabetic BG numbers and a good lipid panel where health is concerned.

FB

all i know cause Im no doctor and don't pretend to be is that when my very fit young husband was rushed into hospital with high ketone levels i was told by two consultants and one specialist nurse he needed an ecg as he was at huge risk of heart attack due to ketone levels i ask what they were and again told by three specialists that prolonged even slightly high ketone levels in the long run is extremely harmful as it weakens the muscles resulting in increased risk of heart attack and mobility problems to name a few my husband recovered and since has had perfect bg levels and no ketones and is fitter than most people so ill take my advice from real docs in front of me that give and answer information not from a book ta

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[douglas99]

Nice to see some forum users with common sense douglas99 and brett
People need to look at the bigger picture when health is involved ]

Nothing like running non diabetic BG numbers and a good lipid panel where health is concerned.

FB

Seriously?

Does anyone one else on here low carbing not check there blood pH, and take any supplements to adjust it when they need to?
Surely it's not just BG is ok, that's the only figure looked at?

I've spent 18 months before I chose my diet, and I'm reasonably happy I'm not just swapping one set of symptoms for another. I'm still not 100%, but as good as I can be all round at present.

 

[fatbird]

Nice to see some forum users with common sense douglas99 and brett
People need to look at the bigger picture when health is involved ]

FB

slightly high ketone levels in the long run is extremely harmful as it weakens the muscles resulting in increased risk of heart attack and mobility problems to name a few

Nothing could be further from the truth. We are made to run on ketones that is how we evolved. What if we did not eat for a day or two or a week would we die? no we run on stored fat and ketones.

FB

 

[lacey1]

Nice to see some forum users with common sense douglas99 and brett
People need to look at the bigger picture when health is involved ]

FB

slightly high ketone levels in the long run is extremely harmful as it weakens the muscles resulting in increased risk of heart attack and mobility problems to name a few

Nothing could be further from the truth. We are made to run on ketones that is how we evolved. What if we did not eat for a day or two or a week would we die? no we run on stored fat and ketones.

FB

no u would not die after one week two might do it but u would feel like **** as they r there as a back up not to sustain us and once the bodys fat stores r depleted muscle is burnt instead does ur book with all the answers not explain this

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[douglas99]

Nothing could be further from the truth. We are made to run on ketones that is how we evolved. What if we did not eat for a day or two or a week would we die? no we run on stored fat and ketones.

FB

OMG.
You mean this don't you?
You really just plan to ignore the risks over the long term, by saying it's fine for a week?
Maybe you really hadn't researched the side effects of the diet beforehand, but it's well worth doing now. They're well documented, it's been used, correctly, with the correct medical supervision, for many years to treat epilepsy. If you do low carb, please do it at least correctly, and importantly, safely.

edit, - by evolved, I take it you refer to the paleo diet. I've actually seen Marks Daily Apple referred to on here, even on there the problems with blood pH is recognised.

 

[fatbird]

Even a comparatively slim person has got a pretty fair level of body fat. Once all fat has been used the body will consume muscle tissue to survive. How many of us get to a stage we burn all the fat in our body? virtually no one unless they are in a starvation situation.

FB

 

[lacey1]

Some people just can't see the woods for the trees good luck fatbird cause weather its next week month or yr your gonna need it

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[mrman]

Even a comparatively slim person has got a pretty fair level of body fat. Once all fat has been used the body will consume muscle tissue to survive. How many of us get to a stage we burn all the fat in our body? virtually no one unless they are in a starvation situation.

FB

So, your in ketosis and not losing all your fat, doesn't that suggest you are eating too many calories and replacing fat stores?

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[fatbird]

"OMG.
You mean this don't you?
You really just plan to ignore the risks over the long term, by saying it's fine for a week?
Maybe you really hadn't researched the side effects of the diet beforehand, but it's well worth doing now. They're well documented, it's been used, correctly, with the correct medical supervision, for many years to treat epilepsy. If you do low carb, please do it at least correctly, and importantly, safely."

Be so kind as to direct me to a paper or trial that demonstrates or proves ketones to be dangerous for a diabetic running non diabetic BG numbers. Please direct me to a paper or trial that demonstrates a low carb diet is not safe. Thank you

FB

 

[fatbird]

"So, your in ketosis and not losing all your fat, doesn't that suggest you are eating too many calories and replacing fat stores?"

What's wrong with fat? it makes up the bulk of my daily calories. I never lose all my body fat, why would I want to? It is our storage system for the famine. Calories within reason are of of no interest to me. By using a low carb diet insulin requirements are kept to a minimum, thereby is the key.

FB

 

[douglas99]

"OMG.
You mean this don't you?
You really just plan to ignore the risks over the long term, by saying it's fine for a week?
Maybe you really hadn't researched the side effects of the diet beforehand, but it's well worth doing now. They're well documented, it's been used, correctly, with the correct medical supervision, for many years to treat epilepsy. If you do low carb, please do it at least correctly, and importantly, safely."

Be so kind as to direct me to a paper or trial that demonstrates or proves ketones to be dangerous for a diabetic running non diabetic BG numbers. Please direct me to a paper or trial that demonstrates a low carb diet is not safe. Thank you

FB

You won't find many. All low carb diets so far have monitored blood pH, and treated accordingly to avoid the side effects (and that goes back nearly a hundred years). You're rewriting the rules here, so you're the trial for having a ketogenic diet without correcting for blood pH.
Who knows, maybe the last century of low carbers were wrong, maybe they could run with low blood pH. The next century will certainly have some real data to compare though.

 

[fatbird]

"All low carb diets so far have monitored blood pH"

Is that so, that's a new one for me. Please elaborate. Blood PH has never entered my mind. Perhaps I have become obsessed with running non diabetic BG numbers, good lipids, good blood pressure and a what is considered safe weight. Please tell me what I am doing wrong?

FB

 

[douglas99]

"All low carb diets so far have monitored blood pH"

Is that so, that's a new one for me. Please elaborate. Are you squeezing my melon?

FB

I mean diet as a way of eating, for life, not the quick fix type.
You do know the history of low carb diets advised on medical grounds with supervision don't you? As a life time diet, not a quick weight loss Atkins diet?

If not, I would suggest a bit more research.

Here's a good example of the regime

http://som.unm.edu/coc/docs/Ketodiet_eng_10Dec09.pdf

 

[fatbird]

"I mean diet as a way of eating, for life, not the quick fix type."

I agree my system has been put in place for life

"You do know the history of low carb diets advised on medical grounds with supervision don't you? As a life time diet, not a quick weight loss Atkins diet?"

I do not and have never followed an Atkins introductory diet.

"If not, I would suggest a bit more research."

I have done a reasonable amount of research, but always looking to learn.

"Some people just can't see the woods for the trees good luck fatbird cause weather its next week month or yr your gonna need it" From lacy1

Lacy please tell me what is wrong or unsafe for a diabetic holding non diabetic numbers, sensible weight, good lipids and as fit as a butchers dog. Please let me know what I am doing wrong.

FB

 

[douglas99]

"All low carb diets so far have monitored blood pH"

Is that so, that's a new one for me. Please elaborate. Blood PH has never entered my mind. Perhaps I have become obsessed with running non diabetic BG numbers, good lipids, good blood pressure and a what is considered safe weight. Please tell me what I am doing wrong?

FB

Just seen the edit.

The pdf in the link has quite a good explanation of the complications that can happen, particularly with regard to the need for calcium and vitamin supplements,

 

[fatbird]

"Just seen the edit.

The pdf in the link has quite a good explanation of the complications that can happen, particularly with regard to the need for calcium and vitamin supplements,"

Are you squeezing my melon?

Broccoli contains almost 5 times as much vitamin C as potato, broccoli contains 8 times as much calcium as potato, broccoli contains almost 2.5 as much dietary fibre as potato. I eat lots of broccoli.

FB