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The role of ketones in health?

i have no idea what the long term implications are but for me, for now, my bgs are lower my chol is lower and ive lost a ton of weight, if they werent i wouldnt fancy my long term health, so until i see proof that there are indeed long term nasties that outweight the goodies im a low carb fan, i really struggle to see the down side, and find it amazing that some people can, the only argument that makes any sense to me is that its un sustainable as i struggle sometimes to not want to fall off the wagon, but i figure if you cant sustain it, try something else, that dosent mean it if you can keep it up it isnt a good idea, it just means its difficult sometimes, all just my opinion
 
douglas99 said:
an osteoporosis type side effect isn't quite so easy.
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Seriously Douglas? :shock: We're in danger and risk osteoporosis because we cut out spuds,cereals,sugar,bread,rice and pasta and pastry products from our diet?? and heavens above we might replace them with good quality meats,green vegetables,berries,natural dairy products and nuts and avoid processed food!! :crazy:
 
paul-1976 said:
douglas99 said:
an osteoporosis type side effect isn't quite so easy.
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Seriously Douglas? :shock: We're in danger and risk osteoporosis because we cut out spuds,cereals,sugar,bread,rice and pasta and pastry products from our diet?? and heavens above we might replace them with good quality meats,green vegetables,berries,natural dairy products and nuts and avoid processed food!! :crazy:
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Osteoporosis isn't that intelligent. It's not going to realise how healthy your diet is. It'll simply be a result of the calcium in your bones reacting with the changes the ketones make to your blood chemistry, it also won't realise you think it's crazy. But at least we're not in danger without knowing, you can make an informed decision.
 
The Inuit and the Masai people's traditional diet has been based on meat, fat and animal consumables and they have had little modern disease except when they have chosen to switch to a modern ( carb) based diet. However we also need to note that these people tend to eat the majority of the animals they kill including liver, heart, etc which low carbers in studies may not have been eating (just a suggestion as I haven't read the studies themselves. I have read a few books around the subject and intend to read the actual studies when I have time).

Also dr Richard Bernstein has lived on a low carb, ketogenic diet for about 40+ years and has reversed complications he had due to diabetes. His blood profiles have never looked so good.




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Patch13 said:
The Inuit and the Masai people's traditional diet has been based on meat, fat and animal consumables and they have had little modern disease except when they have chosen to switch to a modern ( carb) based diet. However we also need to note that these people tend to eat the majority of the animals they kill including liver, heart, etc which low carbers in studies may not have been eating (just a suggestion as I haven't read the studies themselves. I have read a few books around the subject and intend to read the actual studies when I have time).

Also dr Richard Bernstein has lived on a low carb, ketogenic diet for about 40+ years and has reversed complications he had due to diabetes. His blood profiles have never looked so good.




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I suggest reading more as well.

"The Inuit (Eskimo) have the highest osteoporosis rates in the world. In a study of 217 children, 89 adults, and 107 elderly Inuit in Alaska, researchers found that they had lower bone mineral content, onset of bone loss at an earlier age, and development of bone thinning with a greater intensity than white Americans"

"The Masai have the highest osteoporosis rates in Kenya"

But, to be fair, that's google, so I don't have the references to hand.
If you want to check them out, you can. If you want to dismiss it out of hand, that's an option as well.

But even Bernstein devotes chapters in his books to vitamin and mineral supplements in his diet.

And here's a final quote from a poster on marksdailyapple.
Make of it what you will.

"Also, I would like to point out something. Historically, all the larger and more dominant civilizations regularly ate grains and potatoes and were still healthy. For example, Romans Greeks, Mongols, and Japanese. Most of the civilizations eating mainly meat-based diets are very small and not very advanced even though they were healthy. For example, the Inuit, Eskimos, Native Americans, and the Maasai. Americans basically wiped out the native Americans, and at the time, the Americans were still eating grains and potatoes, and were more fit because of more walking and other manual labor. Obesity and type 2 diabetes are recent illnesses. These diseases have been more recent to us than the discovery of cooking grains."
 
Kidney stones may be treatable but anyone who has had renal colic will tell you about the pain. Stones that are the size of a grain of sand will bring the toughest to their knees.

Have a look at the videos on YouTube of a staghorn kidney stone.


It is at the end of the day just another risk.



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Uncontrolled diabetes often leads to heart disease- stoke-kidney failure-limb amputation-blindness-cancer-alzheimer's and negatively effects every tissue in the body-fact. Running non diabetic BG numbers is the best way to stay healthy. Low level ketones together with non diabetic BG numbers is the least of my concerns.

FB
 
Mongoose39uk said:
Kidney stones may be treatable but anyone who has had renal colic will tell you about the pain. Stones that are the size of a grain of sand will bring the toughest to their knees.

Have a look at the videos on YouTube of a staghorn kidney stone.



no i dont think ill take you up on the youtube vid i have a 9am at the stone clinic and im plenty scared enough already lol


It is at the end of the day just another risk.



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I think some people here are getting confused between ketones and ketoacidosis. Bret and Lacy, Fatbird provided a description of the difference between the two. lacy what your partner experienced is ketoacidosis, which is, as you pointed out, very dangerous. Simply having ketones in your blood is not dangerous. One of the symptoms of ketoacidosis is the presence of ketones. Some people who low carb, i.e. have a ketogenic diet, have ketones, but this does not mean they have ketoacidosis. It just means they are burning fat. Aside from having ketones, other symptoms of ketoacidosis are given here: http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/diabetic-k ... ptoms.aspx. You do not get these symtoms if you are on a ketogenic diet.

People saying "I don't want ketones", I think you mean "I don't want ketoacidosis". Everyone will have some level of ketones present.

I should point out that not everyone who low carbs has ketones. I low carb and have never had ketones.

And it looks like we're back to the good old, low carb debate. Sigh. If you can only control your diabetes by avoiding foods that raise your BGs, then why is that a bad thing? I really don't understand why people get so upset by this. It's bizarre. One thing that is beyond doubt, however, is that having raised BGs can make you blind, give you limb amputations, cardiovascular disease, kidney damage, strokes etc. I'm no doctor, but I'd say avoiding those is probably a decent idea.
 
SamJB said:
..........................I should point out that not everyone who low carbs has ketones. I low carb and have never had ketones.

And it looks like we're back to the good old, low carb debate. Sigh. .....................
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Sigh indeed.

Clue's in the title of the thread.

"The role of ketones in health?"

Didn't think it would be possible to confuse that with "low carb and never had ketones" really?

I've no problem with a low carb diet.
Do it properly, research it, take heed of the side effects, and compensate for them. Its not a miracle snake oil cure for "all that ails you", but it's a diet you can live on done correctly.

As you say, you aren't on a ketogenic diet, and don't seem to wish to be on one.
 
Douglas, as you've read my thread, you'd no-doubt agree that I was highlighting the difference between ketones and ketoacidosis, as some people on here seem to have the two confused.

The point about me not having ketones is relevant since low carb diets produce ketones and low carb diets are being discussed in the thread. I'm now confused as to why you are replying antagonistically to me.
 
SamJB said:
Douglas, as you've read my thread, you'd no-doubt agree that I was highlighting the difference between ketones and ketoacidosis, as some people on here seem to have the two confused.

The point about me not having ketones is relevant since low carb diets produce ketones and low carb diets are being discussed in the thread. I'm now confused as to why you are replying antagonistically to me.
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No, this thread is very specifically about inducing ketones as a way of living. You low carb, but had never had ketones to your knowledge. So low carb isn't what we are discussing, and won't produce ketones everytime. And I merely re-used your sigh.
 
Up till the last couple of posts no one had mentioned low carb versus none low carb. They had stuck on subject mostly :( it's not a fight. It is down to choice and what works for you.

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Really, Douglas? Low carbing has been mentioned dozens of times in this thread, including by yourself. You raised a point earlier about checking blood pH:

Does anyone one else on here low carbing not check there blood pH, and take any supplements to adjust it when they need to?
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and

All low carb diets so far have monitored blood pH
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So was my point about low carbing and an absence of ketones is not relevant to the topics raised in this thread (and by you)? I think it is.

Anyway, let's not drift off topic.

Edit: edited quote mark-up.
 
I am not a low carber but have reduced them significantly. I have learned a lot on this forum about low carb diets but know it would be difficult for me personally. If my reduced carb diet stopped being effective I would be prepared to try the very low carb diet. So, right up front I am not opposed to ketosis as a fuel method. What I am getting from Douglas on this thread is that if you choose this diet keep an eye out for side effects and take precautions. I don't feel that he is trying to convert people back to carbs.

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Every time I look down on this timeless town
whether blue or grey be her skies.
Whether loud be her cheers or soft be her tears,
more and more do I realize:

I love ketones in the springtime.
I love ketones in the fall.
I love ketones in the winter when it drizzles,
I love ketones in the summer when it sizzles.

I love ketones every moment,
every moment of the year.
I love ketones, why, oh why do I love ketones?
Because my health is dear.

Apologies to Cole Porter :)

FB
 
To ketone or not to ketone........that is the question :lol:

Seriously though, I don't think for those that see it as unnecessary and have doubts about its safety are going to be persuaded otherwise by what's said on this thread, the same can be said for those on the other-side..... so we are going round and round in circles here yet again :crazy:
 
Seriously though, I don't think for those that see it as unnecessary and have doubts about its safety are going to be persuaded otherwise by what's said on this thread, the same can be said for those on the other-side..... so we are going round and round in circles here yet again
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Yep!
 
fatbird said:
Every time I look down on this timeless town
whether blue or grey be her skies.
Whether loud be her cheers or soft be her tears,
more and more do I realize:

I love ketones in the springtime.
I love ketones in the fall.
I love ketones in the winter when it drizzles,
I love ketones in the summer when it sizzles.

I love ketones every moment,
every moment of the year.
I love ketones, why, oh why do I love ketones?
Because my health is dear.





brought a tear to my eye *sniff* :lol:

Apologies to Cole Porter :)

FB
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