This 8 week 800 calorie a day thing

And I've lost 19% of my weight altogether which takes my weight back to what it was 5/6 years before I was diagnosed and I still haven't reached my PFT.

Edit: Thinking about this, I reckon I need to get back to the weight I was before I think I became even pre-diabetic? What is pre-diabetic anyway? A pre-diabetic has the same problems as a T2, insulin resistance and weight gain and often is described as 'apple' shaped. So to be pre-diabetic is simply to be at the lower end of the diabetic scale. I always was pear shaped, then I became an apple. When I have the time and the inclination I will look back at old photos and determine when it was that my body shape changed and what weight I was then. I reckon that is when/where I will find my own PFT.

I've rambled on about myself in case someone else thinks this may apply to them too.

My thoughts on this are that I probably had diabetes for at least a couple of years before I was diagnosed. I do remember having a full BUPA medical about 20 years ago when I was extremely fit and my BG tested fine so I think my ultimate target will be the weight I was then, which is 35 lbs lighter than I am now. I doubt I will lose 35lbs in 8 weeks so I will have to carry on with the BAD for longer.

I wonder if the Personal Fat Threshold changes as you get older?

Blummin' predictive Kindle, for BAD read BSD.

@zand I think you and I are in agreement here, to find the PFT could take longer or shorter than the 8 weeks the book TITLE suggests it takes. Also that 15% as mentioned by Prof. Taylor isn't a magic number, it may take more weight loss or possibly less to find the PFT but it's a nice first target.

Chook said:

Blummin' predictive Kindle, for BAD read BSD.

@zand I think you and I are in agreement here, to find the PFT could take longer or shorter than the 8 weeks the book TITLE suggests it takes. Also that 15% as mentioned by Prof. Taylor isn't a magic number, it may take more weight loss or possibly less to find the PFT but it's a nice first target.

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lol I read it as BSD anyway, I didn't notice!

Yes I think we are in agreement. This chat has given me hope. My big problem is that I just don't know how to lose the weight. I bought Dr Mosley's book because someone early on in this thread suggested it. There isn't anything new in there for me. I also bought his exercise book, so I may delve into that side of things a bit more when my health is up to it.

Does the PFT change as you get older? I don't know but even if it doesn't your pancreas, like most things, doesn't function as well when you get older.

I used to do High Intensity Interval Training years ago before MM wrote his book and it worked well for me when used on alternative days to lifting weights (this was long before I was diagnosed with diabetes). Sadly arthritis has set in and my joints don't like that sort of exercise any more.

Chook said:

My thoughts on this are that I probably had diabetes for at least a couple of years before I was diagnosed. I do remember having a full BUPA medical about 20 years ago when I was extremely fit and my BG tested fine so I think my ultimate target will be the weight I was then, which is 35 lbs lighter than I am now. I doubt I will lose 35lbs in 8 weeks so I will have to carry on with the BAD for longer.

I wonder if the Personal Fat Threshold changes as you get older?

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I was reading somewhere..can't remember exactly where maybe Jason Fung that the PFT does indeed get lower as we age.. sorry..

bulkbiker said:

I was reading somewhere..can't remember exactly where maybe Jason Fung that the PFT does indeed get lower as we age.. sorry..

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Oh well .... I'm wondering how, exactly, we know when we've reached our PFT. Is it when our FBG is constantly good or do we have to experiment with consuming carbs until we don't react?

From what i have read, the PFT is variable, and dependent on other things too.

The more fatty a liver, the more chance the fat has caused scarring. If that is the case, it affects liver function permanently. but the extent varies depending on the extent of the scarring. Apparently it is quite common.

I have always been an hour glass shape until mid 40s when i started thickening around the middle. Now i am less hour glassy, but not really appley. My trigs are under 0.9, which is supposed to be a good indication that there is no fatty liver... Also good ALT scores (another sign) But then i have had glucose tolerance issues since a slim child.

I guess we all vary so much that the theories only apply to the people in the middle of the bell curve...

Don't know why my body isn't responding to weight loss. Finished the 8 weeks and still low carbing. Yesterday I had 1500 cals, 35g carbs FBS this morning 6.7! Rubbish.

Donnadoobie said:

Don't know why my body isn't responding to weight loss. Finished the 8 weeks and still low carbing. Yesterday I had 1500 cals, 35g carbs FBS this morning 6.7! Rubbish.

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Donna - The hard facts are that not everyone will achieve the Holy Grail, but I have written often about the progress of my bloods over time. When I was in the improving phase, and for while into maintenance, I would have very stable bloods, then with no changes, they would notch down a bit, then be stable for a while, then notch. It was like my body was struggling to maintain the higher "comfort zone" where it had got used to running, then once it couldn't do that any more, it established a new zone.

This isn't guidance or a strong suggestion, but you could experiment with doing a week (or whatever) really very low carb, with fats to balance, if you don't want to drop any more weight, or even try a Fat Fast?

I've done the odd few days very, very low carb, by circumstances, and it was fine. I have never done a Fat Fast, so can't comment how it felt.

There was a period a few months back when a few posters did 3 or 5 day fat fasts and seemed to quite enjoy the challenge. I know @zand did, but don't know if the others who did are still around.

The joy of a fat fast is the total and liberating lack of hunger.
- in my experience.

@Donnadoobie
You said that your body hadn't responded to the weight loss.
What do you mean?
I thought you had reached your weight target. Or have I misunderstood?

@Brunneria, I meant that despite losing 45lbs and despite low carbing since August, my blood sugars refuse to go any lower and remain in the high normal/prediabetic range, that is what I find frustrating. It seems whatever I do nothing changes. Yes I am the weight that I want to be but find it so hard seeing all these success stories saying they lost weight, low carbed or whatever and saw glucose levels drop. I am still getting the same readings now as I did a year ago, when I had an Hba1c of 49. Now at 40 they are still the same. Frustrating and upsetting. I guess I should be happy that my Hba1c is improving. I think I'm having a bad day, that's all.

By the way, what does a fat fast involve?

Donnadoobie said:

@Brunneria, I meant that despite losing 45lbs and despite low carbing since August, my blood sugars refuse to go any lower and remain in the high normal/prediabetic range, that is what I find frustrating. It seems whatever I do nothing changes. Yes I am the weight that I want to be but find it so hard seeing all these success stories saying they lost weight, low carbed or whatever and saw glucose levels drop. I am still getting the same readings now as I did a year ago, when I had an Hba1c of 49. Now at 40 they are still the same. Frustrating and upsetting. I guess I should be happy that my Hba1c is improving. I think I'm having a bad day, that's all.

By the way, what does a fat fast involve?

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That is a pity.
You may be one of the (approx 20-30%) ones who do not see an improvement in their blood glucose after the ND/800 cal thing. I wish this was publicised better before people start these diets. They would be less likely to be so bitterly disappointed, afterwards if that happened.

I think it mainly depends on whether your T2 was/is caused by weight gain and fatty liver, or whether it is caused by the many and various other things that make us end up T2.

Fat fasts are SHORT (no longer than 3-5 days) of intake restricted to just (protein and) fat.

They were originally used to kick the body into ketosis, but have ended up being used as weight-loss-plateau breakers too.

I won't go into detail, cos there is masses of info on line about them nowadays, but basically you spend 3 days eating small 250-500 cal meals of fat and protein
- hard boiled eggs and mayo
- smoked salmon and salad and cheese
- coffeencream
that kind of thing.

@zand lives mainly on cream when she does one, if I remember correctly.

I have only done single days so far, but use coffeencream, stockandcream, chicken and cheese, salad and mayo, roast pork... emphasis is heavy on the fat calories, light on the protein. Veg and salad would be fine, in small portions.

You can either stick to a calorie limit, or eat to your appetite (as I do), since I find that fat appetite limits itself.

For ME it is more the 'type' of calories that matter for both weight loss and glucose control. 800 cals containing grains and dairy will do nothing for me but 800 cals of veggies moderate amounts of lean proteins and some avocado olive oil or mayo will go a long way

Donnadoobie said:

Don't know why my body isn't responding to weight loss. Finished the 8 weeks and still low carbing. Yesterday I had 1500 cals, 35g carbs FBS this morning 6.7! Rubbish.

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What sort of food did you eat on the diet, and what fasting reading were you getting then?

I ate a low carb diet, lots of salads and veggies with fish, lean meats. Pretty much as I do now but cutting calories by eating smaller amounts of the higher fat foods such as cheese, nuts and I had 0% Greek yougurt instead of full fat. FBS was normally around 5.7/5.8. And if in the 6's l maximum 6.3.

Don't want to lose any more weight so upped to 1500 cals, carbs are still low. Maybe it is something other than what I am eating, maybe fighting a virus or something.