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Today R4 program- depressing

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by xfieldok, Jan 14, 2020.

  1. TriciaWs

    TriciaWs Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately the very low calorie method may get some people into remission, but is not sustainable.
    Yes it is better than nothing but that does not make it the best long term option, so why is the NHS and the other diabetic website/charity pushing it. and funding it, instead of low carb in the UK?
     
  2. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    They do advice people to cook all their own food, advoid takeaways and ready meals. If someone does that then their suger intake will drop, most likely high GI carbs would also drop.

    The problem with low carb is that a large scale long term RCT has never been done with true lowcarb, and the funding bodies will not approve the funding for a RCT as to get funding you need many of the leading researcher to give your proposal a good review. These researcher are all from a low caries mindset.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    Someone alluded to this earlier in the thread. Major carbs are calorific. Going low calorie automatically cuts carbs. It has to. The unsustainable part is also cutting the fat, and the NHS needs to catch up on this. NICE is still telling us to cut saturated fats, but at least it is advocating using only olive oil or rapeseed oil for cooking rather than inflammatory cheap processed vegetable oils with too much omega 6 and insufficient omega 3.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  4. dipsydo

    dipsydo · Well-Known Member

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    Maybe people should not carp as at least they are looking at different options and by it very nature 800 calories has to be reasonably low carb each drink is about 20 carbs ( per internet) so that is 60 carbs a day .

    What I thought was so disappointing was that this is now a mandated NHS treatment so if the person wants to try it and the doctor agrees then the 8 weeks of diet drinks by implication be as a prescription ( the the presenter asked this question and the professor said it was a NHS treatment ) so quite a cost to NHS . I know we are all different and I know that low carb is not for everyone , but if instead a person did a low carb and was given a meter and strips for the same 8 weeks I would bet the cost of the strips would not be very different . I would think that after 8 weeks most people would have enough data to work out which carbs were bad for them and which they tolerated and then the ongoing need for strips would be much less .

    What I do not understand why the NHS does not do a large study of newly diagnosed giving people given the option of say

    Low carb plus strips or
    Low carb without strips or
    Medication with advice or
    The 800 diet.

    It would need a follow up to be done over a reasonable amount of time to see how people are able to maintain the lower blood sugars. It would mean that NHS have data to show what is effective rather than hearsay.

    However I suspect this will not happen but maybe one can hope
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 2
  5. Lynne C J

    Lynne C J Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I used to go to research meetings about diabetes in Oxford. The professor there said that if diabetics have one hypo where they needed assistance they shouldn't drive for a year. Which planet was be from? Most diabetics on insulin will have the odd occasion where they get it wrong but life doesn't stop.
    Most of us do the best we can in spite of what medics or diabetes nurses tell us. Only by living with its ups and downs every day can you really understand how it affects you.
    There's a lot of very poor commentary about diabetes out there which is why this forum is so helpful
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. Norfolkmell

    Norfolkmell Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Full of pasta flour and pulses I couldn't work it out until I realised that it was 'Mediterranean' lots of veggie recipes.
     
  7. xfieldok

    xfieldok Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Moderators, please can we have "Yuk" or "Dislike" emojis please?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. Tipetoo

    Tipetoo Type 2 · Expert

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    You would have to ask the @Administrator for that.

    The Yuk is in the lists :yuck:, also you could use this Er,... what o_O
     
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  9. xfieldok

    xfieldok Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It was said more tongue in cheek :)
     
  10. Tipetoo

    Tipetoo Type 2 · Expert

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    I got a rofl out of it... [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  11. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    Yuk
     
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  12. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Nearly all the cost is the surport package that includes CBT etc to help the pt control their eating and discover what leads them to overeating as part of the food reintroduction phrase.
     
  13. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    The key is needed assistance, eg their was no possibility of person controlling it themselfs. This is not the same as asking someone to pass the biscuits.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Expert

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    Good job you were there to interpret for the professor.
     
  15. Honeyend

    Honeyend · Well-Known Member

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    I think the elephant in the room is fat. If you go low carb most people lose weight, and at some point will want to stablise their weight but they can not use carbs, so what would they advise to eat and would it go against the low fat message, which they have spent millions on?
    The 800 cal diet is a nice neat solution for a clinical trial, it means they can publish, and also keep within the currant guidelines. So its not contraversial, and any comments are restricted to the evidence they have provided. Dr Unwin is also very careful only to express and opinion of what he can prove from the data he has collected from his patients. I have watched a few of his videos and always about low carb , not higher fat. He is paid by the NHS. Proff Taylor is never going to say anything he can not prove with trials evidence, he has a career to think of. Some of the heart specialists to have gone to the fat side will always make a living if they can do surgery.
    It still leaves the question what happens when you come off the 800cal diet, or have lost enough weight on low carb.
    Its funny I was watching this today, which seems to be a truth hard to get around.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
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