Trulicity & Ozempic (& possibly surgery)

[HighJinx22]

I’m currently on Trulicity 1.5mg.
When I started on it in November 2022 I was sick as a dog for 11 weeks. No BM and the fact that I ate so little meant this did not help my poor guts.

After 3 months my appetite returned when the nausea and vomiting subsided.

Went to my endocrinologist and he’s putting me on Ozempic as soon as stocks are replenished in May.

I ate less on Trulicity and managed to gain weight

Now the good news, he told me it would be likely I’d suffer even more severe symptoms on Ozempic. I’m eventually to increase it to the max dose. I have until October. He said bariatric surgery was the other option if Ozempic doesn’t work.

My BMI is 35. I literally felt I could pick my jaw off the floor leaving his office.

Anyone else told that?

 

[Oldvatr]

I’m currently on Trulicity 1.5mg.
When I started on it in November 2022 I was sick as a dog for 11 weeks. No BM and the fact that I ate so little meant this did not help my poor guts.

After 3 months my appetite returned when the nausea and vomiting subsided.

Went to my endocrinologist and he’s putting me on Ozempic as soon as stocks are replenished in May.

I ate less on Trulicity and managed to gain weight

Now the good news, he told me it would be likely I’d suffer even more severe symptoms on Ozempic. I’m eventually to increase it to the max dose. I have until October. He said bariatric surgery was the other option if Ozempic doesn’t work.

My BMI is 35. I literally felt I could pick my jaw off the floor leaving his office.

Anyone else told that?

Poor You! Sadly neither the meds nor Bariatric surgery are fully effective. Our bodies adjust to reduced intake and still manage to find some to pack away to replace that which the intervention removed. Look up bariatric surgery and the follow up graphs. There is an immediate dip during the early days, but then the weight creeps back up steadily and remorslessly towards the starting value. Ozempic is known to be effective for weight loss, but once the drug is stopped, weight regain is quite fast. The graphs I have seen show all weight can be regained within a year and then some. These procedures are a short sharp shock to the system, but you will need a strategy to keep the weight down when the procedure stops. The real problem is that fat cells, once created, do not get removed when weight loss occurs- the baloons deflate as they empty, but refill very quickly as they are programmed to do.

 

[HighJinx22]

Poor You! Sadly neither the meds nor Bariatric surgery are fully effective. Our bodies adjust to reduced intake and still manage to find some to pack away to replace that which the intervention removed. Look up bariatric surgery and the follow up graphs. There is an immediate dip during the early days, but then the weight creeps back up steadily and remorslessly towards the starting value. Ozempic is known to be effective for weight loss, but once the drug is stopped, weight regain is quite fast. The graphs I have seen show all weight can be regained within a year and then some. These procedures are a short sharp shock to the system, but you will need a strategy to keep the weight down when the procedure stops. The real problem is that fat cells, once created, do not get removed when weight loss occurs- the baloons deflate as they empty, but refill very quickly as they are programmed to do.

I appreciate you taking the time to reply to my question.

I initially lost weight on Trulicity 0.75mg but then gained it back even when I increased to 1.5mg.

I’ll have a look at the information about surgery. I’m not keen on getting it if it’s suggested.

The drugs I take for bipolar play havoc with diabetes and my ability to lose weight.

it can be pretty demotivating somedays.

Anyway onwards and upwards!

You have a great day and thanks again.

 

[Oldvatr]

My late wife was bipolar, and she was clinically obese but never became diabetic. When I started my Low Carb journey for my diabetes, I became chief cook and bottle washer. She shared my meals with me even though she could have snacks which I did not, she actually found the LCHF meal plan was satisfying and she reduced her carbfests too. I lost 8 stone doing LCHF, and she lost nearly 10 stone. We both ended up at around the 10 stone mark which is where we were when we married. Sadly my wife developed Parkinsons, and passed in her sleep one night. So it is possible to lose weight to that extent without it being a starvation diet. It is possibly something to consider, since the Ozempic route is likely to be as your doctor says. It is a similar drug, but only once a week injection. The LCHF route is not really a diet, it becomes a lifestyle change and it is sustainable long term and so it may help stop the revolving door syndrome I described in my first response. I am still 10 stone.

 

[HighJinx22]

My late wife was bipolar, and she was clinically obese but never became diabetic. When I started my Low Carb journey for my diabetes, I became chief cook and bottle washer. She shared my meals with me even though she could have snacks which I did not, she actually found the LCHF meal plan was satisfying and she reduced her carbfests too. I lost 8 stone doing LCHF, and she lost nearly 10 stone. We both ended up at around the 10 stone mark which is where we were when we married. Sadly my wife developed Parkinsons, and passed in her sleep one night. So it is possible to lose weight to that extent without it being a starvation diet. It is possibly something to consider, since the Ozempic route is likely to be as your doctor says. It is a similar drug, but only once a week injection. The LCHF route is not really a diet, it becomes a lifestyle change and it is sustainable long term and so it may help stop the revolving door syndrome I described in my first response. I am still 10 stone.

Oldvatr I am so very sorry to hear about your poor late wife. That is so very sad to hear that she developed Parkinson’s too. That was a very difficult journey for you both.

I have tried pretty much every diet / eating plan you can think of including LCHF. My shrink told me to come off it because of my liver/kidney function results. Ironically, I’ve battled anorexia and bulimia so food is always on my mind and tormenting me for the most part.

With all the T2, EDS and bipolar I’m stuffed to the gills with drugs which have a huge and severe interaction with each other.

Trying to lose weight is so flipping hard. ️‍

I’m just going to take the next step and keep my fingers superglued crossed

Thanks again for your help and kind words.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Oldvatr I am so very sorry to hear about your poor late wife. That is so very sad to hear that she developed Parkinson’s too. That was a very difficult journey for you both.

I have tried pretty much every diet / eating plan you can think of including LCHF. My shrink told me to come off it because of my liver/kidney function results. Ironically, I’ve battled anorexia and bulimia so food is always on my mind and tormenting me for the most part.

With all the T2, EDS and bipolar I’m stuffed to the gills with drugs which have a huge and severe interaction with each other.

Trying to lose weight is so flipping hard. ️‍

I’m just going to take the next step and keep my fingers superglued crossed

Thanks again for your help and kind words.

Your kidney and liver function got worse on LCHF? Those should have improved... There's a chance it didn't have anything to do with the diet you were on. Considering you mention a lot of medication, I'd sooner look there for the culprit, it makes more sense to admittedly just-a-patient-not-a-medical-professional me... And if that's the case, (BIG IF, mind you, as I'm just making educated guesses here), and you're not likely to be able to ditch the medication you're on, a new attempt at a LCHF diet wouldn't/shouldn't make it worse. Is my guess, anyway.

Do you think you could give LCHF another go? Of would that be too risky? With eating disorders, EDS etc in the mix, it really is something only you can decide. But you sound absolutely miserable at the prospect of more side-effects or surgery. I dunno... I mean, I regained some weight due to other conditions, but my blood sugars are still good, so those aren't doing any damage to organs and arteries. Just have to buy bigger pants again. While I couldn't tackle the weight as much as I wanted to, other things, medical things, did continue to improve. (Rheumatism, borderline personality disorder, cholesterol etc). Might be worth a go, if you think you can.

Just know you're in my thoughts.
Hugs,
Jo

 

[Oldvatr]

I too was somewhat surprised to see you comment regarding LCHF and liver. kidney problems, since in general that diet seems to be benficial in those organs. Now NAFLD (fatty liver disease) is a common ailment that is linked to diabetes, and the two seem to go together quite often, But LCHF has been shown to reduce NAFLD and thereby reduce Insulin resistance, and is an effect that has been reported by many Forum members.

As regards kidneys, then firstly, lowering blood sugar by reduction of carbs directly benefits the kidneys by reducing stress and inflammation due to the large glucose molecules. But that said, if going low carb increased your protein intake, especially animal based protein then this will increase the creatinine in your blood. This directly lowers the GFR marker as a consequence because GFR is not measured, but is estimated by the inverse of the creatinine from the blood test. Creatinine is a natural effect that our bodies are designed to deal with, but it can seem like kidney failure. Its not. Its a problem with the marker being misinterpreted.

One other marker that LCHF can give erroneous diagnosis is LDL cholesterol. Now LDL is the White Van Man of the body. Essential, to have it, and we die if its too low. But it is transporting proteins and fatty acids to where they are needed. Eating the HF part of LCHF means you are shifting more fat around your body. After a meal, the fat is probably moving into storage to be used later, and later it mey be taken out to be used as energy especially if glucose levels are lowered by the LC part of LCHF. So we tend to run with higher level of cholesterol than the current guidelines to GP's allows for. again it is a marker that has not taken this lifestyle into account compared to the normal 'healthy' Eatwell diet that probably made us T2D in the first place.

One problem with statins that is not discussed is that they reduce the amount of LDL the liver makes. So on LCHF, the HF fat gets transported from the gut to the liver by supertankers (called chylomicrons) that is not restricted. So fat goes in, but fat cannot get out again, so it stays in the liver and builds up as fatty liver.

 

[HighJinx22]

I started writing a response but lost it. So here goes again.



Can I just say a massive thanks for going to all the trouble responding to my message.

I try to just get on with life and keep my mouth shut because let’s face it people don’t want to listen to me complaining.

Being able to talk here to you really helps me and the fact that you both went to so much trouble means the world to me.

I can’t do LCHF because my kidneys are under stress due to meds. Lithium, NSAID & Valproic Acid interact severely with one another and can cause lithium toxicity. My kidneys/ liver results are saying they are readings for alcohol damage. I don’t drink.

I have Atrial Fibrillation, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, high LDL. I can’t take take statins as well as other medications due to something called Mast Cell Activation Syndrome. I have POTS Postural Orthostatic Syndrome makes me go all wobbly when I go from lying/sitting to standing like I’m drunk (I don’t drink). EDS related.

I have the other usual internal problems with EDS. Multiple surgeries on my internal organs and multiple dislocations and subluxations. I take lots of pain relief which affects the liver / kidney function.

I tried eating LCHF several times dating back years ago and more recently when I was diagnosed with T2.

I’ve finally realised that the only way to keep weight off was to not be on the bipolar meds and burn the weight off during manic phases which let’s face it, is not a reliable weight loss method and not one I’m going to try.

If someone asked me to sum up what my life is like, I’d probably say, I’m always hungry, stressed, sad, nauseous, agitated and in terrible pain but I hide it. Some days are better than others.

Please don’t think of this as a pity party. It is so cathartic to just write down how I feel for a change.

It will be interesting to see how Ozempic works.


Thanks again

 

[BRIAN IN BLACKPOOL]

I’m currently on Trulicity 1.5mg.
When I started on it in November 2022 I was sick as a dog for 11 weeks. No BM and the fact that I ate so little meant this did not help my poor guts.

After 3 months my appetite returned when the nausea and vomiting subsided.

Went to my endocrinologist and he’s putting me on Ozempic as soon as stocks are replenished in May.

I ate less on Trulicity and managed to gain weight

Now the good news, he told me it would be likely I’d suffer even more severe symptoms on Ozempic. I’m eventually to increase it to the max dose. I have until October. He said bariatric surgery was the other option if Ozempic doesn’t work.

My BMI is 35. I literally felt I could pick my jaw off the floor leaving his office.

Anyone else told that?

Ozempic is great if it works for you. Easy to use and you do loose some weight. But for me it turned out bad after two months I got pancreatitis and spent two weeks in hospital. I’m still waiting for my gallbladder to be removed twelve months later. If I thought it would not cause me any problems I would go back on Ozempic in a flash
Brian

 

[HighJinx22]

Ozempic is great if it works for you. Easy to use and you do loose some weight. But for me it turned out bad after two months I got pancreatitis and spent two weeks in hospital. I’m still waiting for my gallbladder to be removed twelve months later. If I thought it would not cause me any problems I would go back on Ozempic in a flash
Brian

Brian, what???? That’s awful for you. Im so sorry and I hope your surgery goes well and you make a speedy recovery. I just read Ozempic side effects and there are so many severe ones. Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.

 

[Oldvatr]

The Ozempic treatment plan is a two year plan. It is an international guinea pig experiment IMHO. We will see if the benefits outweigh the medicine side effects. Ozempic is now being offered on scrip by weight Watchers to the general public, so a large cohort of obese subjects to study. diabetes is no longer the prime target for this med. Trulicity is from the same family and works the same way. Shame that the med is no longer under FDA and the GP yellow card monitoring system, and so may be able to dodge the curveballs.

 

[HighJinx22]

The Ozempic treatment plan is a two year plan. It is an international guinea pig experiment IMHO. We will see if the benefits outweigh the medicine side effects. Ozempic is now being offered on scrip by weight Watchers to the general public, so a large cohort of obese subjects to study. diabetes is no longer the prime target for this med. Trulicity is from the same family and works the same way. Shame that the med is no longer under FDA and the GP yellow card monitoring system, and so may be able to dodge the curveballs.

Oldvatr I read about Weight Watchers (I was a member on and off for years). It never worked and I guess back then I would’ve taken anything to help shift and keep the weight off permanently. But if I didn’t have diabetes now and knew there was already a shortage for diabetes patients I wouldn’t take it.

I know this because before I was prescribed Ozempic I couldn’t understand, or believe that non diabetic people would take it off prescription for weight loss and allow people with diabetes to be without it. The mind boggles!

 

[Oldvatr]

Oldvatr I read about Weight Watchers (I was a member on and off for years). It never worked and I guess back then I would’ve taken anything to help shift and keep the weight off permanently. But if I didn’t have diabetes now and knew there was already a shortage for diabetes patients I wouldn’t take it.

I know this because before I was prescribed Ozempic I couldn’t understand, or believe that non diabetic people would take it off prescription for weight loss and allow people with diabetes to be without it. The mind boggles!

I think that the manufacturers make more money from private sales than from supplying the medical or insurance markets who buy it at wholesale cost. The current OTC charge before WW got the go ahead was over $100 per month of injections and its a subscription charge. for apparently a 2 year period. It was being bulk purchased by celebrities and TikTok influencers out to score a deal. The shortage helps to push the prices up.
Apparently WW have teamed up with an existing online doctor service cum pharmacy who already have tame doctors in tow to sign the necessary paperwork. They too will be well paid for this service. apparently the triage is basically "is your BMI over 39?" If yes then they get the scrip and wait for the postman. Have not seen any details of follow up / support by WW but if they provide it as a service, then they too will be charging handsomly for that. The Big Pharma companies are good at finding these cornucopia, and it reminds me of Soma in Brave New world. It also has a tinge of Soylent Green since these meds are not innocent sweeties.

The deal that WW paid for Ozempic rights was $132M.

 

[HighJinx22]

I think that the manufacturers make more money from private sales than from supplying the medical or insurance markets who buy it at wholesale cost. The current OTC charge before WW got the go ahead was over $100 per month of injections and its a subscription charge. for apparently a 2 year period. It was being bulk purchased by celebrities and TikTok influencers out to score a deal. The shortage helps to push the prices up.
Apparently WW have teamed up with an existing online doctor service cum pharmacy who already have tame doctors in tow to sign the necessary paperwork. They too will be well paid for this service. apparently the triage is basically "is your BMI over 39?" If yes then they get the scrip and wait for the postman. Have not seen any details of follow up / support by WW but if they provide it as a service, then they too will be charging handsomly for that. The Big Pharma companies are good at finding these cornucopia, and it reminds me of Soma in Brave New world. It also has a tinge of Soylent Green since these meds are not innocent sweeties.

The deal that WW paid for Ozempic rights was $132M.

If you could see my face, it’s gone from I’m literally shocked. I had to look up Soylent Green . I always wonder if this will happen when we exhaust our food supplies

 

[Oldvatr]

If you could see my face, it’s gone from I’m literally shocked. I had to look up Soylent Green . I always wonder if this will happen when we exhaust our food supplies

We are already farming seaweed for fake meat patties, and green slime for D3 and Quorn. I see the Netherlands tried to pass a law to allow compulsory purchase of land used for animal production to be converted to biomass.