Type 1 and Byetta Exenatide

[thecomp]

Hi ALL,

I have been a type 1 Diabetic on Various Insulins since I was 9 years old and I am 38 now.

I have just been diagnosed with Sleep Apnoea and have to wear a CPAP machine at night to free the airway in my throat. After this I visited the Diabetic Consultant and he suggested it may be a good idea to try this new drug, (Byetta - Exenatide) and said he needed to discuss it with his colleagues.

He wrote to me and told me that he would give it a try on me, however I would have to change my insulin as well.

I have started the insulin, which is Insulatard and I have 50 Units in a Morning and 40 Units b4 supper. My Byetta also started on the same day, Monday 14th September 09.

I have been recording my Blood sugar, ketones, Blood Pressire, weight and Carbs.

I have been feeling a little nausea over the last few days and also having bad indegestion however, my appetite has changed considerably. Going from around 300g of Carbs to around 150. Hopefully my weight will come down. I have also felt a little more energetic which is good as you know Diabetics always feel tired.

Basically I just wanted to know if any other type 1 Diabetic was on Byetta and also wondered if anyone would be interested in my test results.

Thx


Wayne

 

[sugarless sue]

Did the doctor give you a reason for using Byetta? This is more usually used to stimulate insulin production in type 2's.By definition a type 1 does not have any natural insulin production.

There is also a Special Warning regarding Byetta and Type 1.

BYETTA should not be used in patients with Type 1 diabetes mellitus

You need to ask some questions ?

 

[FordPrefect]

The only thing I can think of is that you are being given byetta to help you lose weight as it has a few other effects including supressing apetite. I am no expert but after researching various illnesses related to diabetes I have read that sleep aponea is more common in diabetics and that a major cotributing factor to this illness is excess weight especially around the neck.

 

[cugila]

Mmmmmh ? So if Ford Prefect is right - then thecomp is a guinea pig then ? Anybody know any more about this ? I have heard that some think it may be useful for weight loss, but not for use in T1's ?? I think this started in the States, but it certainly isn't licenced for such use ?

As Sue says, it is not supposed to be used for T1's.

If it had been given to me and I was Type 1 I would want to know why the recommendations of the manufacturer and the Emea (European Medicines Agency) were being ignored ? I certainly wouldn't accept it was just something they were trying out !!

I await developments with interest. :?

 

[phoenix]

Not all type 1s lose all their beta cells, it addition it is also possible that they are continually being regenerated and destroyed. Over 20% of people in the Joslin medalist study still produce a small amount of insulin even after fifty years with type 1


As Ken says there are some 1s using Byetta (in the US.
This blog mentions it and has a response from someone on it
http://scotts-dblife.blogspot.com/2007/11/byetta-and-type-1-diabetes.html
and here (though not much very clear and I'd read it sceptically )
http://enews.endocrinemetabolic.com/2005/12/using-byetta-in-type-1-and-type-2.html

 

[thecomp]

Hi again,

As mentioned, I think that I have been put on this medication for weight loss, especially for around the neck area.

The consultant did say that the medication was for T2's only but thought that i would benefit with my situation.I will post my results daily if anyone is interested.

I do not mind being a guinea pig really if it helps.

I started my testing two days before I started the Byetta and Insulatard. I was on Mixtard 70 Units Morning and 58 Evening. I suppose if nothing else I have got something good out of it. I have started testing myself and eating at regular times, before this I never tested anything and my eating habbits were all over the place.

Wayne

 

[thecomp]

Here is Day 1's Results

Sat 12 Sept
Mixtard 70u - Morning
Mixtard 58u - Evening

 

[thecomp]

Day 2

Sun 13 Sept

Mixtard 70u - Morning
Mixtard 58u - Evening

 

[thecomp]

Day 3 - Start Of Byetta

 

[thecomp]

Day 4

 

[thecomp]

Day 5

 

[thecomp]

Day 6

 

[thecomp]

Please let me know if you are interested in these results and I will post them daily if not I will stop.

Ta


Wayne

 

[cugila]

Hi Wayne.

So you are happy to be a guinea pig then....? :?

Whilst your charts are interesting for you to check out I honestly don't think that we need a daily commentary on everything you are doing. It has helped us to see where you appear to be going wrong. It will also take up too much room on the forum as well. Sorry.

After just looking at the few you have posted I have to say I think your diet needs a thorough overhaul !! You appear to be eating all the wrong things and your portion sizes appear to be too big if you seriously want to lose weight ?

You also list certain foods as no carbs when in fact there are carbs, tomatoes,carrots, cauliflower and cabbage all have carbs in them. There are lots of other items as well which you are getting wrong. You need to get yourself a carb counter book such as the Collins Gem series or similar and get reading.

Your Bg levels don't tell us if they are pre-meal, post meal or when, if post meals ? Some of them are very high regardless of when you took them. You need to test when you wake up, before meals, 1 and 2 hrs after meals then you will have a better picture as to what you are doing and what effect it is having on your Bg levels ? Care will be needed when you reduce everything and as for the effect that Byetta will have, it's a mystery ? It was never tested with Type 1's ?

Your Blood Pressure is also very high at times and certainly needs attention.

Do you have a diet plan and have you agreed a strategy for your weight loss and the Diabetes control ? You certainly need one. i know as a Type 1 you can cover your food intake with injected Insulin. This, however has a knock on effect of making you gain weight the more Insulin you take. To lose weight you need to reduce the carbs, reduce the Insulin and you will no doubt see the weight dropping away ?

Hope that helps.

 

[thecomp]

Hi Cugila,

I will stop putting the results on the forum. Sorry

However I have always been told that veg's do not have carbs in them. I have checked and rechecked this today and I have been told that these veg's have very small amounts of carbs in them. Unless you have a very, very large amount there is no need to count the carbs.

Also, the carbs that I have wrote down on my results are exactly to the packet or tin, so I cannot see how I am recording them wrong. I have been a T1 for 29 years now and I know I do not know everything and I never will but I am confident that I know what to look for on these tins and packets.

Yes I do think my Diet needs a good seeing to and I do try to change the amounts and contents, unfortunately I am not a really big eater and I am trying my best.

All my readings are before I eat and in the Morning before I take my Byetta and Insulin.

I am also receiving medication for my High Blood Pressure.

I am in daily contact with the Diabetic Specialist Nurse because of the Byetta and she also receives these Test Results.

Thanks for your Post cugila. I appreciate it.


Wayne

 

[cugila]

Hi Wayne. Glad you are not one to get all 'hissy' when we try to help ? I appreciate you are trying hard and there is no criticism from me. I want to help, that is my only aim. Not convert you. I want you to do the same as me and look back in twelve months and think, well that's gotten back control of my life. Yes.I am a T2 but this can work for anybody. Reducing carbs is good for most people, there is plenty of evidence here. If it doesn't work for you - well, you can't say we didn't try.

Carbs in Vegetables.
Tomatoes.........depending on how served. Can range from 3 per 100g weight to 14.2 for puree.
Cherry toms......3.1g per 100g
Carrots............depending on way cooked etc. Can range from 4.2g to 8g (grated) per 100g
Cauliflower.......ranges from 1.9 to 3.6g carbs per 100g.
Cabbage .........anything from 1.6g to 5g per 100g.
Potato........(new) 1 small potato weighs about 50g so you had 6 which makes around 300g. Now 100g of spud contains around 16g carbs per 100g, multiply that by 3 = 48g carbs not 30g ?? To put this in perspective I eat a main meal of a total of about 20 - 30 carbs each day.

As you can see I could give you a huge list about Veg which shows carbs - there is very little which is really free of carbs ? So, I don't know who said veg has no carbs ? Whoever it was is mistaken. That's why I suggest you get a Carb Counter book. You cannot just discount carbs in your diet, you need to add them all up. I weigh and count my food and it is surprising how quickly the numbers stack up when you say something is nil when in actual fact it is not !

You are quite right that portion sizes make a difference, but you still have to take them into account. One small cherry tom weighs around 15g, so if I have say 7 with a salad that makes 105g therefore I have just ignored 15.7g carbs.....see what I mean ?
Carrots are quite heavy weight wise so they will be even more that you are not counting ?

I don't recall saying that your numbers from packets etc were flawed, I just said that they were not ideal ? It is not just the carbs but the type of food as well. Why eat Biscuits, a double helping of Frosties, Orange Juice in particular will massively raise Bg levels.

I hope you can get your head round this Wayne, it is critical if you want to lose weight, drop some Insulin and get tight control of those errant Bg levels. I am not suggesting a low carb diet, I am asking you to count them and reduce them. It does work.

As regards your Bg levels. At least you know they need work. Doing the above will help reduce them too. Your target figures for a T1 are as follows:
Fasting (waking) ................between 4 - 7 mmol/l.
2 hrs after meals................no more than 9 mmol/l.
If you can get the post meal readings lower that is so much the better.

High Bg levels means, poor health, more Insulin, more Insulin means more weight - it is a vicious circle Wayne.

 

[LittleSue]

Cherry toms......3.1g per 100g

One small cherry tom weighs around 15g, so if I have say 7 with a salad that makes 105g therefore I have just ignored 15.7g carbs.....see what I mean ?

Cugila

Sorry to butt in and I don't wish to criticise, but there seems to be an error in your calculation.
You say 100g of cherry toms is 3.1 carbs, but then say 105g is 15.7 carbs. Whereas 3.1 carbs x 1.05 is really 3.25 carbs.

I eat 7 or 8 cherry toms every day. If I eat them at a different time it certainly doesn't make 15 carbs-worth of difference to my bs.

Dieticians often tell people to ignore the carbs in veg, perhaps on the basis they may be low GI, but clearly they still have an impact. Many carb counting books don't include veg/tomatoes and sometimes the view is encouraged that "if it's not in the book its "free" ". DSNs often tell people to ignore 5 carbs or less. 5 carbs may have less impact if you're active and under good control, but if bs is already high (hence more insulin-resistant) the effect of those carbs is magnified.

Thinks.... 10 o'clock Friday night, at the start of 2 weeks annual leave, and here I am haggling over the carb content of 8 cherry toms. I need to get out more :lol:

 

[cugila]

OK. I put my hands up. :?

In my defence I was on my way out and I have no idea where that came from. It should read, that 7 cherry toms is around 3.3g using the Collins Calorie counter (large edition).

I still stand by the rest of it. A minor hiccup....no I hadn't been at the Guinness.

Like you say, I think I need to get out more too.......thanks for pointing it out.