Type 1: Baked beans and toast, late rise?

[shivles]

LO had beans on toast for tea and had a low before finally being high overnight, I wouldn't expect that with the toast and sugary sauce of the beans, anyone shed some light?

 

[GrantGam]

LO had beans on toast for tea and had a low before finally being high overnight, I wouldn't expect that with the toast and sugary sauce of the beans, anyone shed some light?

High BG can often follow a low BG reading. It's often referred to as a "rebound high". Basically, when BG dips low the liver releases it's stores of glycogen (same as the fight or flight response) in order to 'get you out of danger', so to speak.

Beans on toast would be difficult to miscalculate a bolus for, considering both have nutritional labels. You've obviously bolused the same amount for your child before without difficulty so I'd be surprised if the high BG value could be attributed to a delayed rise.

If not a rebound high, the other possibility could be that overnight basal insulin requires some fine tuning. However, looking at the sharp rise on the graph, I'm pretty confident that this is a rebound high.

Regards,
Grant

EDIT - Is that '3g' hypo treatment actually meant to say 30g? If so, that will also have contributed to the increased overnight BG.

 

[AndBreathe]

OK, please remember I'm not T1, but did you check the 3.9 to ensure it wasn't a rogue reading? Of course, that could be very silly.

 

[shivles]

High BG can often follow a low BG reading. It's often referred to as a "rebound high". Basically, when BG dips low the liver releases it's stores of glycogen (same as the fight or flight response) in order to 'get you out of danger', so to speak.

Beans on toast would be difficult to miscalculate a bolus for, considering both have nutritional labels. You've obviously bolused the same amount for your child before without difficulty so I'd be surprised if the high BG value could be attributed to a delayed rise.

If not a rebound high, the other possibility could be that overnight basal insulin requires some fine tuning. However, looking at the sharp rise on the graph, I'm pretty confident that this is a rebound high.

Regards,
Grant

EDIT - Is that '3g' hypo treatment actually meant to say 30g? If so, that will also have contributed to the increased overnight BG.

That makes sense thanks, no the hypo treatment was 3g, just over half a dextrose tablet, she is only 17 months old and I expect 1g to raise her around 1mmol

Edit to add, she never rose after her meal so I don't think it was wrong bolus just that she didn't absorb the carbs in time

 

[shivles]

OK, please remember I'm not T1, but did you check the 3.9 to ensure it wasn't a rogue reading? Of course, that could be very silly.

I didn't as the other readings before showed her going down, I was kind of expecting a low but hoped she might start to come up from her tea before I had to give her something

 

[GrantGam]

That makes sense thanks, no the hypo treatment was 3g, just over half a dextrose tablet, she is only 17 months old and I expect 1g to raise her around 1mmol

Edit to add, she never rose after her meal so I don't think it was wrong bolus just that she didn't absorb the carbs in time

Okay understood. My hat is off to you for managing her diabetes; it's hard enough doing it for yourself!

I think a rebound high fits this scenario.

 

[shivles]

Looking back at the logs this happens every time she has beans on toast even through different bolus ratios so it must be something to do with the food

 

[azure]

Looking back at the logs this happens every time she has beans on toast even through different bolus ratios so it must be something to do with the food

Beans and pulses tend to be lower GI. Have you tried, say, baked beans with a small baked potato to see if it is the beans?

Also, I always stick to one brand of beans as some are shockingly high in sugar. That or have a small serving.

You could try splitting the bolus if you're sure there's a delayed rise maybe.

 

[shivles]

Beans and pulses tend to be lower GI. Have you tried, say, baked beans with a small baked potato to see if it is the beans?

Also, I always stick to one brand of beans as some are shockingly high in sugar. That or have a small serving.

You could try splitting the bolus if you're sure there's a delayed rise maybe.

She has toast all the time and gets a rise so it has to be the beans, I know beans and pulses are low GI but I thought with white toast and the sauce it wouldn't be an issue. We always have the same brand of beans.

I talked about splitting bolus with her consultant but he said no as it's too many injections

 

[GrantGam]

She has toast all the time and gets a rise so it has to be the beans, I know beans and pulses are low GI but I thought with white toast and the sauce it wouldn't be an issue. We always have the same brand of beans.

I talked about splitting bolus with her consultant but he said no as it's too many injections

Looking back at the logs this happens every time she has beans on toast even through different bolus ratios so it must be something to do with the food

Then bolus post meal instead of before. Does she hypo before going high consistently after this toast and beans dinner?

 

[shivles]

Then bolus after eating, if you're of the thinking that this is happening every time she eats beans.

How would you time that? Because looking at the numbers last night it took almost 3hrs for her to rise after starting to eat so even if I bolused after the meal she would have still had a hypo from the novorapid

 

[GrantGam]

1743 you gave a 3u bolus for the meal, her BG trended downwards to a hypo before shooting back up.

If you administer the bolus after the meal then this will give the body enough time to start breaking down the carbohydrates before the insulin peaks (which is normally around 90 minutes after the injection).

 

[shivles]

1743 you gave a 3u bolus for the meal, her BG trended downwards to a hypo before shooting back up.

If you administer the bolus after the meal then this will give the body enough time to start breaking down the carbohydrates before the insulin peaks (which is normally around 90 minutes after the injection).

Thanks I will give that a try next time

 

[GrantGam]

Thanks I will give that a try next time

I should clarify that 90 minutes is with reference to the peak time of the quick acting insulin, not the delay left between eating and injecting.

You could maybe try a 20 minute delayed bolus to start with, and monitor her BG to see whether you need to increase/decrease the delay.

Good luck and please let us know how you get on

 

[therower]

Hi @shivles . What a great snack. Beans on toast.
In all my years T1 I've never struggled with anything as much as I do with baked beans.
I just can't seem to get it right, maybe 2 times in 10 I'll eat them and stay in range.
Whatever ratio I'm on at the time baked beans will always throw a spanner in the works.
I try to avoid them as best I can but if they do turn up it becomes guess work to be honest.
Hope you can find a way that works for LO. No one should miss out on beans on toast.

 

[shivles]

Hi @shivles . What a great snack. Beans on toast.
In all my years T1 I've never struggled with anything as much as I do with baked beans.
I just can't seem to get it right, maybe 2 times in 10 I'll eat them and stay in range.
Whatever ratio I'm on at the time baked beans will always throw a spanner in the works.
I try to avoid them as best I can but if they do turn up it becomes guess work to be honest.
Hope you can find a way that works for LO. No one should miss out on beans on toast.

Good to know, I will have to keep an eye on it! Hopefully delaying should help

 

[rockape37]

Just in case this has also been overlooked. The carb value of baked beans will be the " of which sugars" value as already said the beans themselves are low glycemic.

Love baked beans.

Regards
Martin

 

[catapillar]

Just in case this has also been overlooked. The carb value of baked beans will be the " of which sugars" value as already said the beans themselves are low glycemic.

Love baked beans.

Regards
Martin

I don't understand this. The carb value is the carb value, no? If you discount anything that isn't high GI, you'll just end up high later. If you know it's low GI, then it's the timing of the bolus that needs looking at?

I'm confused, can you tell?

 

[rockape37]

I don't understand this. The carb value is the carb value, no? If you discount anything that isn't high GI, you'll just end up high later. If you know it's low GI, then it's the timing of the bolus that needs looking at?

I'm confused, can you tell?

It works for me, its the only pulse that i eat and i was told on my DAFNE course not to bolus for the carbs as a whole but just for the " of which sugars" carb value. Like i say it works for me.

Regards

Martin

 

[CathP]

Baked beans are super spikey, we can just about do the 50% reduced sugar ones and keep Freya's sugars under 8mmol.